Condensation on inside glass of double glazing?

johneym

hi folks,

many mornings I have this but I thought you dont get this with double glazing?

Thanks a lot

John

francie82

not supposed to do that ,,,,contact the window company and tell dem. they should sort it out

gsxr1

seal is gone in the pain of glass. There is gas inside which has left the window.

Replacement is the way forward. Its not as expensive as you think.

Look inside the glass. look towards the seal around the edges. There is usually numbers printed on the foil. Write them down and phone the window supplier where you got your windows.

CBYR1983

Is it within the panes or just on the inside pane? You will get condensation on dgus. This is lessened if the units are fitted with a warm edge bar, are gas filled, wider rebate, k-glass, etc.

Standard dgus have a much higher u value and will eventually conduct cold. Then the vapour condensed on inside pane.

I recently had low e k glass units fitted with a u value of 1.3, branded Vista thermal Nobel, and condensation is greatly reduced. Gas filled units would have a lower u value again. I hear you can get down to 0.7 with triple glazing.

gsxr1

CBYR1983 wrote: »

Is it within the panes or just on the inside pane? You will get condensation on dgus. This is lessened if the units are fitted with a warm edge bar, are gas filled, wider rebate, k-glass, etc.

Standard dgus have a much higher u value and will eventually conduct cold. Then the vapour condensed on inside pane.

I recently had low e k glass units fitted with a u value of 1.3, branded Vista thermal Nobel, and condensation is greatly reduced. Gas filled units would have a lower u value again. I hear you can get down to 0.7 with triple glazing.

oh . i was under the impression they where filled with argon which did not have a moisture content

CBYR1983

gsxr1 wrote: »

oh . i was under the impression they where filled with argon which did not have a moisture content

Most new windows do have 28 mm Argon filled units. Some are branded as vista therm elite. However you can still get condensation at bottom and sides if spacer bar conducts the cold.

Older double glazing may be only 20mm thick and the units are unlikely to be gas filled, it's dearer than standard or k glass.

At least that's what I've determined from my dealings with these companies, but just as a customer.

mad m

Got ecoclad windows in a few years now, on some mornings there is a small build up at bottom and sides of window. Windows are filled with argon gas. Sure what can you do??

I normally give them a wipe with a dry cloth before I leave for work, now its not every morning it shows up, just I suppose on very cold mornings.

noel farrell

if there is water between the glass the units are gone no cure new units even with the top double glazing co, the only stand over them for five years but saying that i have seen them last twenty years . if the are pvcu the are worth replacing . if old narrow 40 m aluminum not worth it change your windows better in the long run with pvc,u no condensation on frames . there are are some good timber ones out there but as in all things in life you pay for what you get i am 30 years in the game and i have seen lots of rubbish ask your friends word of mouth will put you on to a good co, the will fix you up

CBYR1983

mad m wrote: »

Got ecoclad windows in a few years now, on some mornings there is a small build up at bottom and sides of window. Windows are filled with argon gas. Sure what can you do??

I normally give them a wipe with a dry cloth before I leave for work, now its not every morning it shows up, just I suppose on very cold mornings.

This is it - it won't be fully eliminated, but sure before I replaced the old Windows at the back, which were single glazed aluminium, I needed a bath towel to clear the condensation every morning! Horrific...

johneym

thanks for the replies folks,

Its a 2nd hand 30 year old house which I just bought so no going back to the supplier there im afraid. Iv löooked at the date however on the silver foil around the inside and its 2003 so they are not so old. The house was vacant a few years also. Its similar to post from mad m. The condensation is mostly around the bottom and sides.
Could there be another reason? For example I see the new PVC windows in my parents house and outside where they have the aair holes they are protected by a little plastic lip which will prevent dust and dirt getting in I suppose but at the same time allow air in under this lip.
My windows have the holes but there is no palstic lip to protect tthem. On the outside there are just the holes, nothing more.
Is it possible these holes may be blocked?
gsxr1 can they pump these windows again with this gas or how does it work?

And who do I contact about this as I dont know where thay were got?

Thanks a lot,

John

noel farrell

the little holes are weep holes for water make sure the are not blocked. dg units can not be pumped again much cheaper to fit new units like like every thing else the have come on a lot in last few years and are much better . small co might split the units and use your own glass it is dirty and can be dangerous . only answer replace unit . if you have some condensation at the bottom of unit on the inside not between the glass unit is not your problem it is venting or not enough heating in room some type of damp in air

nophd08

noel farrell wrote: »

the little holes are weep holes for water make sure the are not blocked. dg units can not be pumped again much cheaper to fit new units like like every thing else the have come on a lot in last few years and are much better . small co might split the units and use your own glass it is dirty and can be dangerous . only answer replace unit . if you have some condensation at the bottom of unit on the inside not between the glass unit is not your problem it is venting or not enough heating in room some type of damp in air

Sorry to barge in, I have same problem with 9 yr old DG units, I need a bath towel to mop up condensation on inside of window on cold mornings. I have normal 4" wall vent but no vents on actual window. Would window vent help in any way as the wall vent can be very draughty if open all night.

noel farrell

there are little vents for pvc windows that are opened with tip of finger the are a help if you are good at diy you can fix them the windows have to be drilled and routed out the look tidy .not as easy on aluminium . put one on an opening in every room .its not a cure all but it helps

gsxr1

johneym wrote: »

thanks for the replies folks,


gsxr1 can they pump these windows again with this gas or how does it work?

And who do I contact about this as I dont know where thay were got?

Thanks a lot,

John

Im sorry I dont know enough about the process to answer. I did come across your problem in a few occasions though and the window guy just replaced the lot saying it was the simplest solution.
I would love to see the process of filling them.

noel farrell

the cant be pumped with gas again if units are broke down and water between glass the are finished . the silver or black spacer bar you see between the out side glass and inside is filled with moisture soaking desicant little white balls or some such material if water logged no cure . the units would have to be split new spacers fitted and pumped in the work shop . new units would be as cheap

johneym

thanks lads for all the replies,

last night was quite cold. My bedroon window was full of condensation in the morning. The other rooms had it only around the edges, extending an inch or so in. I left the window in the sitting open a crack an this window was fine in the morning. No condensation whatsoever.
Could this be a ventilation or heating problem?

Thanks lads again,

John

MicktheMan

johneym wrote: »

thanks lads for all the replies,

last night was quite cold. My bedroon window was full of condensation in the morning. The other rooms had it only around the edges, extending an inch or so in. I left the window in the sitting open a crack an this window was fine in the morning. No condensation whatsoever.
Could this be a ventilation or heating problem?

Thanks lads again,

John

Yes.
the dew point of the air in your room in is above the surface temperature of the glass so the moisture in the air condenses on your glass. Improving the ventilation and/or increasing the temperature of the room will reduce this condensation.

johneym

wow Mick...thank u so much for the reply. U are indeed the man:D

I was on the point of doing a replacement or something but needed to rule out every other possibility.
This means my windows are fine right?

I just need to adjust the temp and or ventilation?

Thanks again,

John

MicktheMan

johneym wrote: »

This means my windows are fine right?

Your windows are probably fine. Replacing them may give a slight improvement but will not solve the problem as the underlying source of the problem has not been addressed i.e. moisture content of the air aslo known as relative humidity.

johneym wrote: »

I just need to adjust the temp and or ventilation?

Do both, they work hand in hand.

If you would like more information, send me a pm as the interaction of temperature, ventilation, moisture, relative humidity, condensation, etc is quite complex to explain here.

nophd08

noel farrell wrote: »

there are little vents for pvc windows that are opened with tip of finger the are a help if you are good at diy you can fix them the windows have to be drilled and routed out the look tidy .not as easy on aluminium . put one on an opening in every room .its not a cure all but it helps

Thanks Noel, Is it best to buy the vents from a window manufacturer or source them online.

AMG86

Have alook at this link. It explains condensation
http://www.proair.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=209

chumphreys

hi, I'm curious did you ever resolve the issue with condensation. I have same problem. House only 7 years old but in some rooms can't see out the windows in the morning with condensation. I have gotten the cavity walls pumped with insulation to see if it might fix, but it hasn't. The room has a vent which isn't blocked - not sure what to do next. Is it the glass in the double glazing or ventilation issue.

BryanF

chumphreys wrote: »

hi, I'm curious did you ever resolve the issue with condensation. I have same problem. House only 7 years old but in some rooms can't see out the windows in the morning with condensation. I have gotten the cavity walls pumped with insulation to see if it might fix, but it hasn't. The room has a vent which isn't blocked - not sure what to do next. Is it the glass in the double glazing or ventilation issue.

moisture is attracted to any surface that is not above the rooms due point,
this due point varies depending on the level of humidity (RH) in the room, the RH (relative humidity) depends on 3 things - amount of moisture in the air due to you/your homes activities, the amount of heating and lastly the amount of ventilation.

an average home will not have the internal window surface temp required to avoid condensation, especially as the ext temp drops and we ventilate less. before you run out to buy new windows, assess your moisture generation and ventilation strategy.

chumphreys

thanks Bryan, I have adjusted the heating upstairs to see if it might help. I keep windows open daily in the rooms but I close them at night, but the wall vents are always open. Also looking to see what I can do to reduce the moisture generation. Is there a gadget I can get to measure the moisture levels? If its ventilation, other than opening the windows and having the wall vents would trickle vents help or do anything for the problem? the windows I have problems with are 2 bay and 1 dormer, not sure if this has any baring on it, they are the only ones that aren't part of the block finish on the house.

BryanF

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Temperature-Humidity-Meter-Clock/dp/B003TJLMSS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348879299&sr=8-1

so, next thing is the building fabric and windows - in order to stop condensation you need to look at window internal surface temp and thermal bridging (ie no point in the house where the internal surface temp falls below the RH due point, as mentioned above) this needs to happen along with a review of ventilation strategy/ maybe mechanical ventilation assistance. before you do all this you need to ask - is there mould? is there a need a to remove condensation on these windows? can you live with it?

chumphreys

there is some mould on window pane and on the blinds, not huge amount, as I try to dry the windows and window board etc when the condensation is bad. I would like to fix it especially in the bedroom as I get v bad chest infections in the winter, and also told last yr was told I have asthma due to allergies (dust mites, one of the main causes). I have been trying for the last 2 years to fix! with the insulation, sealing windows with silicone, skirting board gaps filled, etc.

BryanF

There is no cheap fix to this, in order to address your health issue the building would require a holistic upgrade including mechanical ventilation (preferably with ) heat recovery (Mvhr) have you looked at the passive house standard.

MicktheMan

chumphreys wrote: »

there is some mould on window pane and on the blinds, not huge amount, as I try to dry the windows and window board etc when the condensation is bad. I would like to fix it especially in the bedroom as I get v bad chest infections in the winter, and also told last yr was told I have asthma due to allergies (dust mites, one of the main causes). I have been trying for the last 2 years to fix! with the insulation, sealing windows with silicone, skirting board gaps filled, etc.

If I may join the discussion.

Remember that even in the best heated and ventilated houses there will be a period of 1 to 2 weeks where there will be some/excessive condensation when the heating is first used after the summer. However, I assume from your posts that you have condensation throughout the winter.

As BryanF has said there are multiple things at play here (RH, ventilation, heating, surface temperatures, thermal bridging etc) which need to be fully understood before you will "fix" the problem. Spending time and money guessing what might help may not solve your problem and may in fact make it worse inadvertingly.

I suggest that first the air is monitored in your house for temperature and relative humidity over 2-3 weeks, is then surveyed for additional moisture loads such as leaks, failed damp proofing. With this data it will be possible to outline the problem and best solution(s) to suit you. Included in this should be a full explanation as to what is going on and what you can do yourself to mitigate against it.
Hope this helps.

chumphreys

thanks Bryan and Mick, I have ordered a meter for checking the temp and relative humidity etc from the link Bryan sent me, so should get this during the week. Hopefully once I get this it will give me a better idea.

chumphreys

I have been measuring the rh in a couple of rooms over the past 2 days, the lowest reading I have gotten so far is 58% rh and the highest between yest and today 70%, will continue to monitor as Micktheman recommended.

maringo

I know nothing about relative humidiy but I found a dehumidifer great for keeping the excess moisture in the air down. Picked it up in power city. Didn't cost very much to run and might suit as a temporary measure. I just emptied the collected water when it reached the max, ran on automatic and it turned itself off when full. Might be worth thinking about in the interim especially if you have asthma. Certainly worked for me - sucked in the damp air and spewed out slightly warm dry air.

fiestaman

I'm resurrecting this thread as I have a problem with condensation on my windows. Double glazed from Senator windows fitted in 2011. This morning all the windows had condensation some just in corners others in corners and across the bottom. I have done everything to eliminate moisture and I have 4" duct vents in all rooms. My thermostats showed 18 degrees inside And the temperature outside was 4 degrees. Is it possible the warm edge bar in the unit is not working correctly and allowing a thermal bridge?

BryanF

fiestaman wrote: »

I'm resurrecting this thread as I have a problem with condensation on my windows. Double glazed from Senator windows fitted in 2011. This morning all the windows had condensation some just in corners others in corners and across the bottom. I have done everything to eliminate moisture and I have 4" duct vents in all rooms. My thermostats showed 18 degrees inside And the temperature outside was 4 degrees. Is it possible the warm edge bar in the unit is not working correctly and allowing a thermal bridge?

How is the wall insulation continuity/ junction detail? Was the house built in 2011?

fiestaman

House build started in 2009, windows fitted in 2011 and moved in in 2012. 100mm cavity pumped bead with 37mm insulated slad on interior walls.

BryanF

fiestaman wrote: »

House build started in 2009, windows fitted in 2011 and moved in in 2012. 100mm cavity pumped bead with 37mm insulated slad on interior walls.

I would question how The windows were installed to achieve insulation continuity and also the u-value of the frames. Separately I would question the rooms ventilation (night time in bedrooms, day time in living areas)