Advice for A4 racing

lalorm

Anyone got any advice for someone starting racing this year in the A4 category? Trianing advice, tips and tricks for surviving the first few races etc?

billy.fish

Race A3

Train as you want for the first year, just get used to riding in a group, get used to the surges, enjoy it.

Then buy a cross bike and race next winter

Lumen

Cycling safely in a large group is much harder when you are completely knackered; it's better if you can learn to do it without applying too much mental effort.

drops

Lumen wrote: »

Cycling safely in a large group is much harder when you are completely knackered; it's better if you can learn to do it without applying too much mental effort.

I raced allot when i was younger but never as a senior. I started back on the bike two years ago and was going to get a licence next year but don't know whether to go for an A3 or an A4. I like the idea of the A4 but am tempted to bite the bullet and go A3. But as someone on here said before, its nice to race A4 and get your points then get promoted to A3. Just wondering what people thoughts are

ROK ON

Lumen wrote: »

Cycling safely in a large group is much harder when you are completely knackered; it's better if you can learn to do it without applying too much mental effort.

My rather cunning plan is to get dropped asap. After a few races of this stronger riders will have been promoted.

I will then attack from the go and stay away.

Hence I plan to spend my first year racing completely avoiding the group.
The first part of the strategy is now well practice and should be easy to execute. I am still working on the second part of the strategy.
Need advice ;-)

Idleater

ROK ON wrote: »

My rather cunning plan is to get dropped asap. After a few races of this stronger riders will have been promoted.

I will then attack from the go and stay away.

So that means (assuming we start the same races) the two of us will be the ones doing trackstands while everyone else tootles off into the distance?

No no, after you my good man...

niceonetom

OP, a lot of this depends on your starting point. Are you in a club? Do you ride fast in a bunch? If not, then do that in a non-competitive environment first. Too many guys with big engines and no idea last year.

Don't go to A3 if you haven't raced A4. It's both faster and crashier. Yes it it.

ROK ON wrote: »

My rather cunning plan is to get dropped asap. After a few races of this stronger riders will have been promoted.

The problem here is that there are more strong riders than there are races, so those fast fellas are going to be around for a while.

mo_bhicycle

drops wrote: »

Just wondering what people thoughts are

Go A4, you can always upgrade. If you go A3 it's v tough to go down to A4.
You might do 1 A4 race and find it frustrating as hell, then just upgrade yourself. You might like A4 and want to earn your upgrade.

A4 + play it by ear.

Morrisseeee

So.........newbie Q alert.........where do you go about getting these A4 (or A3) licences ? (Oh oh, more silly Qs) If I joined a club, what is the cost per year ? and does this include a racing licence ?
/end silly Qs

Lumen

Morrisseeee wrote: »

So.........newbie Q alert.........where do you go about getting these A4 (or A3) licences ? (Oh oh, more silly Qs) If I joined a club, what is the cost per year ? and does this include a racing licence ?
/end silly Qs

The costs break down something like this:

- C.I. licence (that's the A* bit). There are several flavours, either Club Competition or Full Competition, the difference being that with the CC one you have to buy one day licences for open races and can't get promoted through points accumulation until you get a full licence.
- Club membership fees
- Club racing fees (may or may not be rolled into membership)
- Costume (maybe just a club jersey).

The C.I. forms can be a bit daunting, so the easiest approach is to join a club and get them to register your C.I. membership.

Or you can just get a C.I. licence and do open races as an "unattached" rider with unbranded kit.

RobFowl

Lumen wrote: »

Or you can just get a C.I. licence and do open races as an "unattached" rider with unbranded kit.

Unbranded gear like this




I'll get my coat.......

LeoD

Definitely join a club if you're not in one already and get used to cycling fast within 12" of the person in front of you. The worst thing about racing is nervous riders who jump on the brakes at the first sign of trouble in the group. Once you can relax in a fast group I'd recommend a couple of club races before entering an open race if possible as the groups should be smaller. I could survive A3 no problem but that's all I'd be doing - surviving - sitting in the pack, wheel sucking all race long and not within an asses roar of winning unless everyone else crashes so I'm going to race A4 again this year. If I can't score my way out of A4 then I don't think there's much point being in A3. A4 last year was good fun, able to stay at the front and even throw in a few Gilbert style digs at the end of races on 2 occasions (engine failed about 500m from line and limped in last both times ) but it was great craic. I'd much prefer to have a cut at least than travel to a race, sit in the group, finish nowhere and go home again afterwards.

As for training, nothing too scientific - join a club and ride with a group that is slightly above your level. On our club rides, the last 10-15km is usually referred to as the 'ging' (don't know if this is a universal term) which is really just an all out race. Good fun and good training! Remember, we're in it for the fun so don't take it too serious.

lalorm

When training at a steady pace I can manage 100km distance at an average of 30kph, but it's though once I get past 70km. Giving myself around 8 weeks to go to my first race, and bringing in some interval training on the turbo, do you think one would be race fit by then for an A4 race of around 60km at 40kph? Or am I destined to be at the back of the group or out the back all together?

LeoD

By "training" do you mean riding on the road or indoors on a turbo? If you can do 100km at 30kmh on the road now you'll be more than capable of holding your own in a race - provided you are able to ride at pace comfortably in close proximity to other riders. A4 races cannot be longer than 60/65km so no need to worry about lasting the distance. It's still very early in the season - I had my first training ride of 2011 yesterday - 25km . You could shorten your training rides and include a few intervals in each one. I'm more from the Sean Kelly school of training. No time for power meters and all that science stuff...

Sean Kelly winter training advice

mo_bhicycle

LeoD wrote: »

If I can't score my way out of A4 then I don't think there's much point being in A3.

I don't agree with that as the styles of racing across the categories is very different. If you don't have a sprint it can be fairly difficult to pick up points in A4, however in other categories breaks are more likely to get away so the lack of a sprint isn't quite as limiting.
Another factor is distance. The longer distances may suit certain people more, therefore the shorter A4 distances would be a disadvantage.

12 sprocket

THe best route for beginners is to join a club, train with the club and begin competition by riding club races which are usually handicapped events. THis allows beginners to race with people of similar ability and they can progress through the groups as they get fitter and gradually race in open races when their skill and fitness improves.

niceonetom

+1 12 sprocket.

lalorm wrote: »

When training at a steady pace I can manage 100km distance at an average of 30kph, but it's though once I get past 70km. Giving myself around 8 weeks to go to my first race, and bringing in some interval training on the turbo, do you think one would be race fit by then for an A4 race of around 60km at 40kph? Or am I destined to be at the back of the group or out the back all together?

On your own? If so then you have the legs to race. LEGS ARE NOT ENOUGH. Sorry for shouting, but I want to make sure the triathletes hear this. Too many guys think that racing about getting really fast and then turn up at the early races without a clue how to handle themselves and a tendency to slam on the brakes every time they feel nervous. Please, please don't be one of these.

So you’re into bikes, huh? You ride enough that people don’t believe you when answer their question of how many miles you do. You’re pretty much over the whole dressing up in lycra thing, and may have even flirted with the idea of shaving your legs. Now you’re thinking that racing's what you want to do. So how do you get started?

First, you’re going to try to find out if you’re fast enough. There’s about a 90% chance you’ve approached some racer and said “okay, if I can do 20 mph for an hour, am I fast enough to race?” Hopefully you got an earnest answer that expressed some of the irrelevance of this question. There are actually a ton more important questions to ask...

Can you really ride your bike? By this I mean are you comfortable riding at high speed next to another guy closer together than the guys on CHiPS? Can you easily bunny hop objects as tall as a curb? Can you take a turn at speed without freaking out? Can you ride a straight line at high speed with no hands? Can you pick up, drink from, and replace your bottle while looking forward and going straight? Can you look in either direction and behind you without changing course? Bike racing is a sport that’s done in groups moving at high rates of speed. If you have the skills to handle yourself in a large and fast moving group, you’ll be fine. If not, you’ll endanger yourself and others around you.

read on

Lumen

Slamming of brakes is bad, but it's inevitable when idiots ride two or three abreast on the wrong side of the road towards and around blind bends then panic and bunch back up again when oncoming traffic appears.

If you're going to attack and have some clear road ahead, by all means ride up the outside. Otherwise, chill out and packfill with the rest.

There is absolutely no reason why large bunches cannot ride safely on unclosed roads, provided that people ride with their brains engaged.

I've done a couple of races where the organisers threatened to disqualify anyone who crossed the central line before the sprint. Those races turned out to be fast and safe (well, apart from the bunch crashes during the sprint).

More of this please.

nomadic

I'm a triathlete who is going to race A3 for the first time this year. I assume clip ons are ok?

Lumen

nomadic wrote: »

I'm a triathlete who is going to race A3 for the first time this year. I assume clip ons are ok?

Only if they are accompanied by horizontally mounted drinking bottles and/or bottle tree, race belt, top tube bag and man bra.

kennyb3

nomadic wrote: »

I'm a triathlete who is going to race A3 for the first time this year. I assume clip ons are ok?

In a word no, nomadic have you done any races with a club? If not I would get some in a few before turning up in A3 or A4, there is alot more to racing than riding your bike fast.

nomadic

Lumen wrote: »

Only if they are accompanied by horizontally mounted drinking bottles and/or bottle tree, race belt, top tube bag and man bra.

Aero bottle and helmet will be a must really.

kennyb3 wrote: »

In a word no, nomadic have you done any races with a club? If not I would get some in a few before turning up in A3 or A4, there is alot more to racing than riding your bike fast.

Sorry Kenny, I'm taking the pish.

RobFowl

nomadic wrote: »

I'm a triathlete who is going to race A3 for the first time this year. I assume clip ons are ok?

And forget the number they issue, just write it on your leg with a black marker.
Watch out for the draft marshals too.

el tel

Never underestimate how hard and fast A4 races are because I can confirm they are fast as f**k and hard as F**k. Many of the A4 riders I know are under graded and are as fast and capable as A3 and A2s (at least).

levitronix

nomadic wrote: »

I'm a triathlete who is going to race A3 for the first time this year. I assume clip ons are ok?

Just do a suicide off the front for the first 20km and earn your street cred !

As a former triathlete haha there is a bit more to just going fast its the constant up and downs and having legs for a sprint, takes a bit of time to get comfy surfing the bunch first few times out

levitronix

Also If you think your good enough for A3 why not just sign A4 and get a win and go A3

C3PO

el tel wrote: »

Never underestimate how hard and fast A4 races are because I can confirm they are fast as f**k and hard as F**k. Many of the A4 riders I know are under graded and are as fast and capable as A3 and A2s (at least).

I was under the impression that A4 is an introductory class for road racing? Riders like the ones you've referenced shouldn't be riding there surely? I suspect this is why CI attempeted to change the catagories for this year?
Personally, I've been racing mountainbikes for a couple of years and have been riding on the road with a training group over the winter. I've applied for a full licence this year and intend to do a few A4 races over the summer. This thread isn't filling me with confidence!!! I'll certainly be trying hard to avoid being a nuisance and will probably get dropped so fast that it won't be a problem anyway but equally I would expect more experienced riders to understand that in an "introductory class" you are going to encounter riders who are "learning the ropes" and need to be given the space to do so!

nomadic

levitronix wrote: »

Also If you think your good enough for A3 why not just sign A4 and get a win and go A3

I want to do a stage race. Watch out gorey 3 day.

shaungil

I did A3 (combined)and A4 races lastyear and the A4's were far safer and enjoyable. There was typically a fair bit of racing. Sure there were some crashes but were due to inexperience more than the A3 crashes I say which were from more aggresive and stupid riding.

OP join a club so you are used to group riding and if possible get in a club league but don't be afraid to just give it a lash. A friend of mine tried his first this year and was dropped from the A4 bunch after half a lap the A3 bunch before the end of the first lap and the 1's and 2's just flew by him. 5 lap race. He loved every second of it.

A3 for me this year after upgrade in the last race of the year. Gorey just over 3 months away.

lalorm

It's the getting dropped part I'm worried about. Last time I raced was 3 years ago in a hamper race. Which was the first race in 15 years for me. I knew it would be fast, but didn't expect it to be soooo fast. Anyway I felt great until we got to a small climb, lost the wheel I was following and got over the top alone thinking I'll catch them on the descent. Not a chance.

So for anyone training to build up their speed and endurance for an A4 race, apart from the advice to trainin groups, is it better to train long distance at a steady pace say 27-32 kph or shorter spins on a turbo with lots of intervals?

I should mention before someone says it, that I'm used to riding in a group and watch everything!

el tel

I'd say the best traing for racing is racing! There really is no substitute and the next best thing by a distance would be intervals, on the road IMO. No race which I have done was long distance and steady, mostly they are multiple laps of about 6 or 7 miles at mostly balls to the wall pace.

kennyb3

Yep i second that, you can train all year but you ll struggle to get that bit extra until you do a couple of races.

I kept putting off racing last year thinking i hadnt enough miles done but once i did a race i came on more than any training. It also made me focus my training more and make it all worthwhile

brainstorm

el tel wrote: »

No race which I have done was long distance and steady, mostly they are multiple laps of about 6 or 7 miles at mostly balls to the wall pace.

Curious, as I'm thinking of racing this year.. Roughly what were the average speeds in A4 races last year and how big were the bunches?

lalorm

brainstorm wrote: »

Curious, as I'm thinking of racing this year.. Roughly what were the average speeds in A4 races last year and how big were the bunches?

I raced in a hamper race a couple of years ago and it was around 40kph from the start. Never eased off. Eventually got dropped and waited for the second group to come along and try and catch on. However I couldn't catch them even with a sprint of 50kph :eek: But if we are in A4 only races, then hopefully the speed won't go much over 40.

So it's fast. I'm just hoping that after a few races, I'll start to get my race legs again after all these years and finish at least.

DirkVoodoo

brainstorm wrote: »

Curious, as I'm thinking of racing this year.. Roughly what were the average speeds in A4 races last year and how big were the bunches?

Speeds don't really matter that much, they wouldn't be that high and most people could probably hack the pace. Like el tel says, they are not steady, which is the killer. Changes in pace when hitting drags, speed out of corners, holding your speed through bends and twisty sections are far more important. You won't get dropped because of "average speeds", they are probably in and around the 36/37 km/hr mark, which isn't that bad in a bunch.

You can't gauge how you will perform from the average speeds really, just get out and race, see how you get on. Don't beat yourself up if you get dropped.

brainstorm

Thanks to all for the info !

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

You can't gauge how you will perform from the average speeds really

Agreed, asked out of curiosity more then anything else


Few more questions, again just looking for info.

i guess applicable to A* categories but focusing on A4.

Am i right in thinking the A4 category can be made up of Seniors, Vets, Juniors and Ladies, who would either class themselves as newbies/just back to racing after being away awhile (except ex-internationals)/not good enough yet for higher categories...

I don't expect to be in with a shout! but these days how is the pot of gold/trophies split at the end of the race. Is it just say the first 6 A4's across the line regardless of who you are?


Can you still arrive on the day and get a one day license and ride as unattached? I'm not part of a club, but used to riding in sizable groups