Another BMW 320D Swirl flap thread

Trhiggy83

Lads,
I previously got the swirl flaps replaced on the 04 bmw 320 i had but have now since upgraded to a 05 320d. I have trawled the internet looking for an exact date to when the swirl flaps were upgraded due to their probability of failure. The problem is there is no definitive date given as to when these swirl flaps were upgraded as bmw have not identified them as a problem. I see a lot of scare mongering going on in forums but it does not seem like any 05 bmws have suffered the same problems as previous. I read an article saying the manifold upgraded completely by october 2004 so in theory my car has the new manifold. The problem is there is always people writing rubbish that puts doubt ito your head.

Anyone know exactly when the manifold swirl flaps were updated and have they ever heard of failures. A bmw garage i was talking to a few months ago seemed to frighten me into getting them blocked up on my 04 but there seems to be good evidence with 04s that a problem existed.

I reckon my 05 is alright but cant be sure, i know if i go to the garage they will say its safer to get them taken out but it seems beyod 04 the issue has went away.

Anyone have any facts for me (dates etc)

Cheers

bazz26

Have a read on this forum and it should answer your question hopefully:

http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22724

bmw535d

you can get blanks for 10stg each so that 40quid well spent in my book, if you can put them in yourself that is.

Trhiggy83

bazz26 wrote: »

Have a read on this forum and it should answer your question hopefully:

http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22724

Read it and the debate is very similar to the other stuff i have been reading. still undecided. I agree the 04 model and older had issues but there is no facts stating that 05 after the update is failing. I know its safer to upgrade but its these people selling the caps that are scare mongering in my opinion becuas eafter 04 there is not much if any evidence of failure. its certainly not widespread

PaulKK

Is your car an E46?

If so take the flaps out.

I have read on BMWLand reports of the newer flaps failing.

BMW upgraded the manifold by thickening the spindles of the flaps, but the metal flaps still detach from the spindles.

I have a Nov 2004 built 320d with the newer manifold and I de-flapped.

For the sake of 100e you won't be worrying about it.

These were the ones I got:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/22mm-BMW-Swirl-Flap-replacements-/250746100329?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a61a1da69#ht_953wt_1139

Trhiggy83

PaulKK wrote: »

Is your car an E46?

If so take the flaps out.

I have read on BMWLand reports of the newer flaps failing.

BMW upgraded the manifold by thickening the spindles of the flaps, but the metal flaps still detach from the spindles.

I have a Nov 2004 built 320d with the newer manifold and I de-flapped.

For the sake of 100e you won't be worrying about it.

These were the ones I got:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/22mm-BMW-Swirl-Flap-replacements-/250746100329?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a61a1da69#ht_953wt_1139

Did you do the job yourself, i got it done on the previous car and the mechanic ripped me off. I know its a stright forward job but not too sure if i would have the tools.

Do you know what i would need. It looks straight forward.

mickob16

Does anyone know if this swirl flap issue applies to the 5series???

PaulKK

Trhiggy83 wrote: »

Did you do the job yourself, i got it done on the previous car and the mechanic ripped me off. I know its a stright forward job but not too sure if i would have the tools.

Do you know what i would need. It looks straight forward.

Nope, got my mechanic to do it, I was getting glowplugs, all brake pads, fuel filter and droplinks done at the same time.

Think I got charged about 120e in total for labour, I supplied all the parts.

Its not that straight forward tbh.. I change my own oil etc but I did't want to chance that.

voxpop

mickob16 wrote: »

Does anyone know if this swirl flap issue applies to the 5series???

Yeah - all diesels mostly, there are some random models without but its hit and miss. You can check for the actuator (and long bar) on the inlet manifold

Trhiggy83

PaulKK wrote: »

Nope, got my mechanic to do it, I was getting glowplugs, all brake pads, fuel filter and droplinks done at the same time.

Think I got charged about 120e in total for labour, I supplied all the parts.

Its not that straight forward tbh.. I change my own oil etc but I did't want to chance that.

Where u get that done, that was cheap

What are droplinks, pardon my ignorance.

Trhiggy83

mickob16 wrote: »

Does anyone know if this swirl flap issue applies to the 5series???

worth checkin it out, there is a good chance if diesel

PaulKK

Trhiggy83 wrote: »

Where u get that done, that was cheap

What are droplinks, pardon my ignorance.

My local mechanic in Kilkenny.

Also known as "Anti roll bar links", have a google.

Trhiggy83

PaulKK wrote: »

My local mechanic in Kilkenny.

Also known as "Anti roll bar links", have a google.

Are they the bushings for the suspension?

PaulKK

Trhiggy83 wrote: »

Are they the bushings for the suspension?

http://www.caauto.reflex-hosting.net/items/Pow-sbl.pjpeg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sway_bar

Trhiggy83

PaulKK wrote: »

http://www.caauto.reflex-hosting.net/items/Pow-sbl.pjpeg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sway_bar

cheers

Matt Simis

PaulKK wrote: »

These were the ones I got:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/22mm-BMW-Swirl-Flap-replacements-/250746100329?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a61a1da69#ht_953wt_1139

Anyone know if there is any logic to the size flaps (22 vs 33mm), ie how to know before taking the intake off? Thinking about doing the job on 2005 535d, but would rather have the correct parts to hand first.

E39MSport

Good writeup here
http://www.pmwltd.co.uk/swirl_flaps.pdf

Johnny Utah

PaulKK wrote: »

Is your car an E46?

If so take the flaps out.

I have read on BMWLand reports of the newer flaps failing.

BMW upgraded the manifold by thickening the spindles of the flaps, but the metal flaps still detach from the spindles.

I have a Nov 2004 built 320d with the newer manifold and I de-flapped.

For the sake of 100e you won't be worrying about it.

These were the ones I got:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/22mm-BMW-Swirl-Flap-replacements-/250746100329?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a61a1da69#ht_953wt_1139

I have an E46 320Cd and I have the blanking plates fitted. I did a lot of research before deciding to go ahead, and as far as I remember, there were cases reported online of the new 'improved' swirl flaps failing. These reports were from people who had owned cars, not from people who have a vested interest in supplying blanking plates. Therefore, I have to agree with PaulKK above in advising you to have the blanking plates fitted, irrespective of which inlet manifiold is on your car.

Furthermore, as far as I remember, BMW introduced the new, thicker swirl flaps sometime around 2005. However, there is no way of telling whether you have the new or old swirl flaps until you take out the inlet manifold.

Another issue to note is that some people simply remove the swirl flaps without fitting blanking plates in their place. From my research, this is not advisable as it leaves a cavity where there isn't designed to be one.

I sourced my blanking plates from PMW Ltd in the UK and had them fitted here by a mechanic. PMW are quite helpful in providing advice on this issue and they had an article in one of the BMW magazines on the issue of swirl flap failure.

Plenty of info on bmwland forums too.

mickob16 wrote: »

Does anyone know if this swirl flap issue applies to the 5series???

As far as I remember; yes, I think some 5 series diesels are affected.

Matt Simis wrote: »

Anyone know if there is any logic to the size flaps (22 vs 33mm), ie how to know before taking the intake off? Thinking about doing the job on 2005 535d, but would rather have the correct parts to hand first.

No way to tell without taking the swirl flaps out. I ordered both sets as I was getting the work done by a mechanic, and when the job was done, returned the unused set to PMW.

Johnny Utah

Some good info and DIY tutorials here:


http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/f3/e46-320td-320d-swirl-flap-replacement-t15571/



http://www.pmwltd.co.uk/swirl_flaps.pdf

PaulKK

Matt Simis wrote: »

Anyone know if there is any logic to the size flaps (22 vs 33mm), ie how to know before taking the intake off? Thinking about doing the job on 2005 535d, but would rather have the correct parts to hand first.

Matt, I believe all E46s are 22mm, and the E90 and 5 series are the larger size.

I certainly have yet to read of an E46 taking the larger blanks.

Trhiggy83

E39MSport wrote: »

Good writeup here
http://www.pmwltd.co.uk/swirl_flaps.pdf

Have read all this stuff, im not convinced the upgraded manifold is causing problems. Would love to be proved worng by someone tho:D

I know its better safe than sorry but im just a bit sceptical, anyway i might get them done i suppose. its not worth the risk really either way

E39MSport

afaik, if the breather filter isn't changed (and I think they have an updated one of those too) then you are asking for trouble.

Better safe than sorry - I'll be blanking them off on our M57. Time for a cooling system overhaul too I think.

Trhiggy83

PaulKK wrote: »

Matt, I believe all E46s are 22mm, and the E90 and 5 series are the larger size.

I certainly have yet to read of an E46 taking the larger blanks.

You buy your parts online ?

PaulKK

Trhiggy83 wrote: »

You buy your parts online ?

Yea, eurocarparts.co.uk and ebay for the blanks I linked earlier, its a BMWland member who is an engineer that makes them.

Trhiggy83

PaulKK wrote: »

Yea, eurocarparts.co.uk and ebay for the blanks I linked earlier, its a BMWland member who is an engineer that makes them.

Thanks again, might roll up the sleeves and do a bit myself

Trhiggy83

bazz26 wrote: »

Have a read on this forum and it should answer your question hopefully:

http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22724

I inputted my vin number as you suggested and it has shown me my intake manifold, would i be right in saying i dont have any swirl flaps in my car?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BV52&mospid=47613&btnr=11_3327&hg=11&fg=40

Im not sure though, am i correct in saying that

Its not clear but Item 1 says the following '01 Intake manifold with flap control' .

Would that be the swirl flaps included within the manifold, they aint shown on the diagram tho. Bit confused now

franksm

There's also an article in the Jan 2011 issue of Car Mechanics magazine where they blank off the swirl-flaps on a 3.0 litre BMW diesel. Nice write-up

Trhiggy83

Ok i checked the intake manifold on that website that was given, i have the new updated manifold with the thicker 4.5mm swirl flaps which is a bonus.

Im still sceptical that these are failing widespread on the updated manifolds, i know its a risk i take but looking at the evidence with the new swirl flaps it looks like they have corrected the problem. I know its better safe than sorry but the evidence is not there.

Anyone know anyone with a newer intake manifold that failed

PaulKK

Trhiggy83 wrote: »

Ok i checked the intake manifold on that website that was given, i have the new updated manifold with the thicker 4.5mm swirl flaps which is a bonus.

I have he same manifold, I still de-flapped.

Trhiggy83 wrote: »

Im still sceptical that these are failing widespread on the updated manifolds, i know its a risk i take but looking at the evidence with the new swirl flaps it looks like they have corrected the problem. I know its better safe than sorry but the evidence is not there.

Anyone know anyone with a newer intake manifold that failed

Look, I don't want to be rude here, but just get it deflapped. Its peace of mind and you won't need to worry about it and it isn't expensive. It also frees up a couple of horses

You should change the heater plugs while you are getting the manifold off too.

Trhiggy83

Just found a good DIY showing photos and explaining what to do. I think i will let the mechanic do the rest thanks. Looks complicated enough


http://forums.5series.net/topic/70452-removing-the-swirl-flaps-in-a-diesel-engine/

jwmpayne2004

PaulKK wrote: »

Trhiggy83 wrote: »

Did you do the job yourself, i got it done on the previous car and the mechanic ripped me off. I know its a stright forward job but not too sure if i would have the tools.

Do you know what i would need. It looks straight forward.

Nope, got my mechanic to do it, I was getting glowplugs, all brake pads, fuel filter and droplinks done at the same time.

Think I got charged about 120e in total for labour, I supplied all the parts.

Its not that straight forward tbh.. I change my own oil etc but I did't want to chance that.

hi Paul! Just wondering what type of oil did you used for oil change?Thanks

PaulKK

jwmpayne2004 wrote: »

hi Paul! Just wondering what type of oil did you used for oil change?Thanks

I used to use Castrol Edge 5W30, but now I use Mobil 1 ESP 5W30.

swhyte027

bmw535d wrote: »

you can get blanks for 10stg each so that 40quid well spent in my book, if you can put them in yourself that is.

It's a 6 cylinder engines 6 times 10 is 60 not 40

Northern Monkey

swhyte027 wrote: »

It's a 6 cylinder engines 6 times 10 is 60 not 40

It was a 320d, so 4 cylinders. It was also 10 months ago, so hopefully the OP has got sorted by now.