Help for abandoned horses in Dunsink and elsewhere?

Cordula

Hi everybody,
I just registered here, though actually I don't live in Ireland at all, but in Germany. I am German, but I studied at UCD for a few months, have friends in Kildare and Galway and try to go to Ireland as often as I can.

Now to be honest, I haven't got horses either. But I have a friend who has horses, and she has read about abandoned horses in Ireland, e.g. here:
http://www.dspca.ie/dspca/equinecrisis
or here:

http://www.dublinpeople.com/content/view/4116/57/

I think these articles are the more realistic ones - there are much more dramatic accounts to be found in the internet, especially on non-Irish sites, and they say there are up to 20 000 abondoned horses in Ireland - but I don't believe that.

Now my friend is shocked about these accounts and would like to help the horses. She is thinking of flying to Ireland with her husband and taking some of those horses, perhaps from Dunsink, back to Germany. She has already collected information regarding necessary documents, microchipping, transport etc. But she supposes she can sort of just pick up the worst-off horses at the dump in Dunsink, take them to the vet etc. and then bring them home. However, I think the horses may be in a bad state, but many of them still have owners...? Have any of you seen the abandoned horses in Dunsink or any other abandoned horses in Ireland? Do you have any idea how to help those horses, and whether it would make sense to bring them to Germany at all??

Thanks a million!
Cordula

Borderfox

When somebody wants to take an abandoned horse the "owners" suddenly turn up out of the blue but couldnt care less about the horse unless soembody wants it. I was on the M50 recently and seen a donkey/small foal dead on the back side of Dunsink with some very thin horses nearby, not a nice site to see anywhere.

Great idea and very noble to look after them and I wish you luck.

Cordula

Borderfox wrote: »

When somebody wants to take an abandoned horse the "owners" suddenly turn up out of the blue but couldnt care less about the horse unless soembody wants it..

I had feared something like that... Do you think my friend could just chance it, though? But then... when one owner comes, probably a lot more come running, too? And she wouldn't be able to take any horse at all?

Borderfox wrote: »

I was on the M50 recently and seen a donkey/small foal dead on the back side of Dunsink with some very thin horses nearby, not a nice site to see anywhere. .

That sounds horrible. Is it really that bad? I had hoped that the reports were perhaps a bit exaggerated...

Borderfox wrote: »

Great idea and very noble to look after them and I wish you luck.

Thank you! We have to decide yet if and how to do this. Any suggestions are welcome!

Cordula

Ave Sodalis

I'm not completely sure of this but as far as I know, once the horses are lifted, the owners cease to have a right to claim them back. Again, this will have to be checked.

If the ISPCA haven't lifted the horses and she wants them, she might think about appealing to the ISPCA and explaining her situation to them. They may be able to take the horses if they are in a bad state and give them to her.

That is, of course, if they are fit to travel. It may take some rehabilitation in Ireland before they can travel for health reason.

It is a great idea though. Fair plays to you for thinking of it and hope it goes well

doctor evil

I think they can supdude, they can pay a fine and get them out of the pound.

TBH a cull of the worst is what is needed, there is an overproduction of low end horses.

Cherry Blossom

As far as I know the DSPCA have some dealings with the Dunsink horses so you could try contacting them.

http://www.dspca.ie/Contactus

East Galway Animal Rescue, I think is dealing with some of the similar cases in Galway. Indeed she would be taking on the most worthwhile cases. No mention of horses on her site but I think she has somewhere between 10 & 15 at the minute. Web site address below but she also posts on Boards.

http://www.egar.org/

Cordula

I thought the DSPCA would be a good idea, so I sent them an e-mail last week to info@dspca.ie. However, I haven't heard from them yet. I have heard from the Irish Horse Welfare Trust and the Horse Passport Agency regarding passports, microchips etc. Perhaps I should contact the DSPCA again. I'm a bit reluctant about phoning them because I suppose they have lots to do and I wouldn't get the right person on the phone anyway, so I thought emails would be better.

East Galway Animal Rescue is a good idea, too, I'll send them an email straight away.
Thanks!

Angelmangle

To be honest while I think what you and your friend want to do is very admirable I also think it could be a nightmare to implement and execute.

I'm curious to know how many of these horses your friend is willing to rehome? She and you must be aware that you are driving into an area which is known as being quite rough (and I am sorry I don't mean to insult any Finglas residents here) and there are some individuals from that area who have access to guns and knives and would not really think twice about using them. So personal safety is a big consideration. It may not be as easy as you think for two indivuduals to just drive in there and leave easily with those horses without the risk of being assaulted/attacked.

Also these animals may not be up to the stess involved in travelling to another country. I have a friend who owns a horse transportation company who transport sporthorses/racehorses around the world and she said its tricky enough to transport well handled horses and try and keep them calm never mind sick horses who have probably never been in a horsebox or lorry before never mind on a plane! I'm sorry if I am being overly negative about this but you need to be realistic. Trying to catch, handle, box and transport horses which are not used to handling (or at least kind handling) is a big ask and that's even if the "owners" will let you near them to start with.

The DSPCA and others regularly feed the horses in Dunsink and do a great job doing so. Unfortunatly the only thing which is going to work is legislation and accountability when it comes to horse ownership in this country. Legislation states that horses must be microchiped yet this is not enforced so there is no accountability.

I saw also that you believe that the figure quoted of 20,000 abandoned horses seems a somewhat ridiculous amount to you but I have to inform you that that is the current figure we have for the number of abandoned horses nationwide, there are thousands along in the Finglas/West/North Dublin area

Cordula

Angelmangle wrote: »

I'm curious to know how many of these horses your friend is willing to rehome?

She could organize transport for up to ten horses at a time. She wouldn't keep all of them herself, but would try to find good homes for some of them anyway - after a while, when their health condition permits another (short) transport. But I think she would keep them as long as they need to be nursed back to health. She and her husband own a riding stable. If and only if it actually works to bring ten horses here and rehome them, she might consider a second transport.

Angelmangle wrote: »

She and you must be aware that you are driving into an area which is known as being quite rough (and I am sorry I don't mean to insult any Finglas residents here) and there are some individuals from that area who have access to guns and knives and would not really think twice about using them. So personal safety is a big consideration. It may not be as easy as you think for two indivuduals to just drive in there and leave easily with those horses without the risk of being assaulted/attacked.

That's a good point, thank you very much! I must say I have doubts myself. And I know the area is rough. I suppose we shouldn't go there without somebody from the ISPCA at all. It doesn't help either that my friend is pregnant and shouldn't jeopardize her health and that of her baby. I will talk to her about this point.

Angelmangle wrote: »

Also these animals may not be up to the stess involved in travelling to another country. I have a friend who owns a horse transportation company who transport sporthorses/racehorses around the world and she said its tricky enough to transport well handled horses and try and keep them calm never mind sick horses who have probably never been in a horsebox or lorry before never mind on a plane! I'm sorry if I am being overly negative about this but you need to be realistic. Trying to catch, handle, box and transport horses which are not used to handling (or at least kind handling) is a big ask and that's even if the "owners" will let you near them to start with.

Of course you're right there again. My friend has bought and sold a few horses for her riding stable (in a way, it's partly more of an animal shelter than a proper riding stable - many of her horses aren't suitable for riding), and she had a group of ponies that were not used to being handled when they arrived, so she has some experience there. But still I'm sure it would be difficult. I see I need to talk this over with her. I'll drive over to her place this weekend or next week (no time before that, I'm afraid) and have a proper chat.

Angelmangle wrote: »

I saw also that you believe that the figure quoted of 20,000 abandoned horses seems a somewhat ridiculous amount to you but I have to inform you that that is the current figure we have for the number of abandoned horses nationwide, there are thousands along in the Finglas/West/North Dublin area

Really? I read of around 100 or 150 horses in Dunsink, but I did also read the figure of 5,000 horses somewhere. The figure of 20,000 horses has been disputed, and I thought it was somewhat exaggerated... It would be shocking if that was true.

Thank you for your input, I will pass it on to my friend.

Cherry Blossom

Sorry OP but your starting to sound like horse dealers now. No self respecting rescue will rehome any animal to anyone intending to move them on again, usually in the case of horses the rescue retains ownership of the horse and the adopter has them on long term loan. There is already an 'agency' in the UK buying up horses from Irish horse meat dealers which I find absolutely ludicrous, I'm sure they'd be taking abandoned horses if it was do-able. It sounds like taking rescue horses isn't going to suit as you plan to move them on again, which leaves you back at square one, you have no authority to sieze any of these animals and attempting to move them without a passport is illegal and as already said they would be unfit for travel, it may take a full year to rehabilitate some of these horses to get to a stage where they would be fit to travel.

Cordula

Don't misunderstand me, adrenalinjunkie. My friend doesn't intend to move horses without a passport of course. She would take care of getting passports, microchips etc. And she would not sell them here, but after a while, perhaps find homes where they can be well cared for - the way foster homes do. Many German organisations bring dogs here from Spain, for example. They stay in foster homes until they find a proper home. I suppose that should be done in cooperation with a proper German animal shelter organisation. I will suggest that to my friend, she has good contacts to an animal shelter here and has also fostered kittens for them.

On the other hand, I am aware that under normal conditions, you are not allowed to move on animals you have taken in from an animal shelter. Our two cats are from shelters, too, and we are quite happy we "have" to keep them forever.
Only in this case, where perhaps the only alternative for these horses would be to stay where they are and starve, shouldn't the foster option be considered?
I don't know. As I said, I will talk to my friend. I am not really involved in this myself, she only asked me to help her because I speak English, that's all really. But then I wanted to find out more on the topic myself.
I grant that my friend may be (too) idealistic and may think this is easier than it actually is, but she is not a horse dealer, nor would she dream of making profit with sick horses (which is impossible anyway, I would say).

Cordula

By the way, Irish greyhounds are being sent to German animal rescues to be rehomed here:
http://www.greyhoundaction.org.uk/Library/rescues.pdf
Some of them are sent here, but the website is only in German:
http://www.tieroase-birkenschold.de/windhundinfo.html

I know horses aren't dogs and it's much more difficult to transport them... and now I think it would probably be better if my friend took on horses from the ISPCA that CAN be transported, so that they have room again to take on more poor horses. But as I said, that would only work as a cooperation between Irish and German animal rescue organisations. I hope the ISPCA or DSPCA will reply yet.

Cherry Blossom

Don't get me wrong OP your heart is definately in the right place but this is getting more and more complicated with every post. This would take a huge amount of organising and liasing between people you don't speak the same language. If the ISPCA/DSPCA had the sort of resources that would be nesessary to carry this out they would be much better used elsewhere than something that is going to take up so much of their time. I doubt you will get an answer from them on this and I wouldn't imagine e-mail would be the best way of contacting them. The IHWT might be slightly more interested but they mainly deal with the fall out from the thoroughbred industry afaik.

Cordula

I got a reply from Egar.org, and we'll see what can be done.
This is all still work in progress, that's why it seems to be getting more complicated with every post. We're still thinking it through and changing our plans according to the info we get, but at the moment, I'm slightly optimistic again. I'll keep you posted.

Cherry Blossom

I thought you might get a better response from EGAR, often it is the smaller rescues that are prepared to put in that extra bit of effort to organising things, let us know how you get on

convert

Did anybody see Ear to the Ground last night? Apparently they were doing a feature on the welfare of horses in Dublin, and paid a visit to Dunsink. I didn't see it, I heard an interview with the reporter on RTE 1 radio yesterday morning, with a few excerpts from people they interviewed. Apparently there's information on their facebook page, too.

Borderfox

Its here http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1089901

convert

Article on the Dunsink horses here: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...288326693.html