De Bromhead Racing

decies

What are peoples views on this,it seems resonably priced??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w1KsP1xIJk&feature=player_embedded#!

Winning Ways Racing

Video removed. What was it? His Facebook syndicate. It's not bad value for what it is i.e. your chance to own a horse for very little. When you add up the annual training fees I think it comes to €25k, which is what I charge members but then members get some of that back if we don't actually spend it. DeBromhead is presumably charging a premium for the sheer hassle of having 100 members.

UrbanSea

Winning Ways Racing wrote: »

Video removed. What was it? His Facebook syndicate. It's not bad value for what it is i.e. your chance to own a horse for very little. When you add up the annual training fees I think it comes to €25k, which is what I charge members but then members get some of that back if we don't actually spend it. DeBromhead is presumably charging a premium for the sheer hassle of having 100 members.

I watched it,I think it was that,could be wrong.

smartaform

Paperwork with 100 members would be crazy!! :eek:

Winning Ways - how much would you pay for an offspring of Snurge??
Be rare (not impossible before i get slated for commenting on something) to have one worth 25k off the bat!!

I do think it's a good concept and he'll hopefully get a few new people involved in the industry..

decies

Winning Ways Racing wrote: »

Video removed. What was it? His Facebook syndicate. It's not bad value for what it is i.e. your chance to own a horse for very little. When you add up the annual training fees I think it comes to €25k, which is what I charge members but then members get some of that back if we don't actually spend it. DeBromhead is presumably charging a premium for the sheer hassle of having 100 members.

Any Excess money for training fees is returned to the members at end of year.55 members so far and counting apparently.Its 150 euro in jan 150 in feb and there after 25 euro a month training fees.
Have posted his other video above.

Winning Ways Racing

smartaform wrote: »

how much would you pay for an offspring of Snurge??

Without seeing the horse in the flesh, I could not comment. After all, we paid €22k for a Beat All!! But he's turned out to be a dual bumper winner because he was a nice individual. I've become convinced that it has less to do with breeding and more to do with the horse. We would pass over 60% of horses at the main sales because there is something we don't like about the horse. Some will sell for nice money solely on its pedigree.

Winning Ways Racing

decies wrote: »

Any Excess money for training fees is returned to the members at end of year.55 members so far and counting apparently.Its 150 euro in jan 150 in feb and there after 25 euro a month training fees.
Have posted his other video above.

I'm not having a go here, just asking some questions:
- What are the fees then on which any refund will be based? Presumably he has disclosed his basic fees and then there will be extras in order to be transparency. What happens if 20 members drop out after 2 months. Would you still be entitled to a pro-rata refund at the end of the season despite the fact that the syndicate might owe deBromhead money i.e. is deBromhead taking a risk here?
- What happens if half the members drop out after a bad run?

I think deBromhead is very brave in trying to do this. It could be an absolute nightmare trying to get money every month.

Winning Ways Racing

decies wrote: »

Have posted his other video above.

Just watched the video. My only advice to the syndicate members is not to buy a horse from a trainer you don't know. I see now where the Snurge link was. Whatever about going to the sales and being ripped off, don't let a trainer do it!!

smartaform

Winning Ways Racing wrote: »

Without seeing the horse in the flesh, I could not comment. After all, we paid €22k for a Beat All!! But he's turned out to be a dual bumper winner because he was a nice individual. I've become convinced that it has less to do with breeding and more to do with the horse. We would pass over 60% of horses at the main sales because there is something we don't like about the horse. Some will sell for nice money solely on its pedigree.

Naturally seeing the horse it is hard to tell...:D
My initial thought was 25k was very steep CONSIDERING Snurge's off spring in the last 3 years have averaged under 4,000!!
For this horse to be considered to buck the trend by a decent margin (profit margin lol) was eyeopening to say the least

Winning Ways Racing

Smart, you could say the same about Beat All though. His average must be pretty dire. You must remember that these unfashionable stallions get pretty poor mares so they have very little chance. But if the stallion man was careful about who he let in then they have a greater chance. For example, we looked at a few Beat All's at the 2010 sales to see if we could find another but they were too big and had slow breeding on the dams side. We look for smaller, natual types that have speed on the dams side. So while his progeny could average 4k, we'd happily pay 20k for the same again! So I wouldn't dismiss the price simply on the back of average price. I'd like to see the dam's side to start with, if we cannot see the horse.

Huntthe

Good NH horses tend to be one offs. They come from everywhere. I would agree with WW on this , it's more about the individual than the breeding with NH. Look at the array of horses by unfashionable stallions that Mullins has for example.

smartaform

Guys, i'm not denying there is a chance this Snurge horse could possibly be an outstanding sort...

All i'm saying is based on the facts at hand (a flash video on youtube) the horse info was a Snurge horse OR one or two others with the proposed start off kitty, my eyes popped open a bit, also, he (Snurge) has had very few winners over recent years..
If you're running a promo like this perhaps show the options upfront??

Onto the Mullins statement, he does have some average horses and his methods develop the horse in the best way.

Some people still have un-realistic prices in mind for some horses.. For instance, i was looking at a strong Desert Style filly in December, owner wanted 8k so i turned down.. It went to the sales a week later and went for 2k.....

But as i said earlier in the thread, i like the effort going to get more people into ownership... I would hate to be in the office at HDB racing though lol

Huntthe

Onto the Mullins statement, he does have some average horses and his methods develop the horse in the best way.

I don't know what you mean. I just picked Mullins as an example. He's obviously a top trainer but he pays top dollar for the raw material and bar the ones he buys off the flat many of the Sires and dams most people would never have heard of. Hence WWs point about looking more at the individual than the page.

smartaform

I know what you're saying about looking at more than the PAGE...
In the scope of things, they were throwing figures around and to only mention things vaguely, apart from a Snurge horse got my attention... It just didn't fit - UNLESS OF COURSE the horse is an outstanding type, which we can't say as there is no info of him yet..

Apologies on my last post, I had someone talking to me at the time as well :rolleyes:
I agree Mullins does buy stock that some would consider unfashionable.. But i mean, if anyone could find potential it would be his operation..

Something i missed earlier WW, some may consider Beat All unfashionable, BUT his stats are very good, a good % of runners to winners and he's still getting regular winners, something which Snurge is not.

Winning Ways Racing

smartaform wrote: »

All i'm saying is based on the facts at hand (a flash video on youtube) the horse info was a Snurge horse OR one or two others with the proposed start off kitty, my eyes popped open a bit, also, he (Snurge) has had very few winners over recent years..

The grey horse in the video I think was the first one they were thinking about, a Great Palm I think. That one seems to have disappeared and replaced by a Snurge. As one lad said to me, "if they thought it was any good wouldn't Potts own it". I counter by saying that surely it's in deBromhead's interes that the first of these horses works. I'd still prefer to buy at the sales and get ripped off by 20% rather than 80% buying from any trainer.

decies

Anyway they have 20 spaces available at this stage!!

bit of a bogey

Was looking at this and its a great idea. Say it would be a good bit of craic.

Having said that, I won't be joining it. Not really a finacially sound investment. Even less so than normally a racehorse would.

You could be a extremely lucky and the horse could turn out to be a cracker. Could win a E50,000 race but you'd still only take home less than 500 quid for youself!

...or he migntnt be much use and you end up owning 1% in a point to pointer. Would prefer to get involved if the horse was already bought and in training. Alot can go wrong before you even see the race track.
Nevertheless, I hope it works out well for those involved.
Nice idea. Best of luck to those involved!!

Winning Ways Racing

bit of a bogey wrote: »

Not really a finacially sound investment.......a racehorse

While I kinda understand what you mean, if you are looking at racehorse ownership from an investment perspective you will never own a horse. having 1% of a gold Cup winner is better than 0% of a gold Cup winner or 100% of a dud!!

bit of a bogey

"Not really a finacially sound investment.......a racehorse"



Nice selective quoting!!!

Huntthe

That's what you do with quotes, you select them and put them in inverted comma's. If he's missing the point please explain as I'm confused too.

bit of a bogey

bit of a bogey wrote: »

Not really a finacially sound investment. Even less so than normally a racehorse would.

.

Winning Ways Racing

"even less so than normally"

Normally a horse is not a financial investment (they way people would view a financial investment providing an "expected" financial return) so you can't really have an even less normally position surely. Sorry, I'm being pedantic. I'm only commenting because the words "financial investment" and "racehorse" should be barred from the same paragraph by law!!

greenrocket

99% of the time owning a horse is not a finacial investment. very few horses win more the they cost. alot of the time a horse might never run. its the enjoyment and thrill of owning a horse with which your investment is in.

met a family one time who had a horse who finished fourth in a handicap cheltenham. never met a bunch of people so happy. they all had it lumped on e/w.

hucklebuck

I would consdering joining something like this, the structure was good, I think it was €1,100 up front and €25 a month per member.

I was sceptical however at the video, the handler was walking the horse towards the camera in a dark barn and the horse was being shown from the knees up. I showed it to my missus and said he must have a bad action as there were no shots of the horse from side on.

sq_forever

Henry de Bromhead's facebook page states he is organising another syndicate to go to the derby sales. I take it the first one was a success! Any reports on it?

Winning Ways Racing

It's all very difficult to follow. I think the original one bought a horse, the second one is buying a horse at Goffs and third one is being set up now to buy at the Derby sales. Good luck to Henry. This is a lot of hard work and if things go wrong, members will disappear very very quickly. Of course, if things go right, he will have plenty of more syndicate members joining.

We are going to the sales ourselves next week. First time we have filled a syndicate before the sale. I think those that have a few bob and no huge commitments are looking to get involved in horses again. We are hoping to have another one filled by August sales.

hucklebuck

I have signed up, he is talking 60 in a syndicate @ €250 - €300 initial investment with a monthly fee of €36.

http://www.facebook.com/henrydebromheadracing

Winning Ways Racing

Hucklebuck, a quick question. What happens if half the syndicate falls out of the horse?

hucklebuck

Winning Ways Racing wrote: »

Hucklebuck, a quick question. What happens if half the syndicate falls out of the horse?

Sorry only saw this now. The proposed contract will have min term of 12 months and the monthly fee includes an element of contingency, looking like it's going to be the August Sale now, can't believe assholes saying they are in and pulling out at the last minute.:mad:

Winning Ways Racing

hucklebuck wrote: »

Sorry only saw this now. The proposed contract will have min term of 12 months and the monthly fee includes an element of contingency, looking like it's going to be the August Sale now, can't believe assholes saying they are in and pulling out at the last minute.:mad:

To be honest, I'm not surprised and the reason why I askd the previous question. It's not an easy job keeping ten syndicate members happy, let alone 60. Fair dues to Henry for taking it on. How many pulled out? There will be plenty to buy at the August sales too. Not sure you missed much at the Land Rover. Derby sale will be interesting.

decies

Am involved with the Facebook 2000 syndicate , " knockeen on the door "hope to see it running in the autumn.

Winning Ways Racing

Where did you pick him up? Was he at the sales?

We picked up a Presenting on Thursday. Might have a look at the August sale and go again.