Weird Situation

LegacyUser

Hi,

kinda righting this on behalf of a friend. not a poster on her that often so hope i make sence!

my friend (let's say Ciara) was going out with a guy (let's say Tom). Ciara and Tom were together but was obvios that Tom liked Ciara more than the other way round. Ciara was diagnosed with a pretty bad illness during there time together. Ciara never felt lik she was matched well to Tom and to make amtters more difficult Tom's and Ciara's friend (let's say James) kept comin on really strong to Ciara during their relationship. Ciara never did anything about it but recently confided in me that she flirted with him drunkenly a few times and told him she like d dhim but preferred tom. Tom and Ciara broke up when Ciara was diagnosed as it was too much pressure and James ended up being pretty rough with Ciara and they fooled around (not sex, though). Ciara felt a bit used and hurt. She now hates James for not leaving her alone during her relationship with Tom. She told me that she regretted flirting with James when she was with Tom and that she had told James on several occsions that it wouldnt happen and that she wasn't interested and that her mind wasn't in a place to be making good decisions.

A year later and Ciara <snip> is doing really well.. I noticed though that she deleted James from Fb and is now seeing Tom again. When I was talking to her last it seemed that she feels really bad about everything... and that she loves tom quite a bit... and even thinks that he might be the one (she's 27). She feels so guilty abut the James thing and told tom everything who has completely forgiven her for it all. He knows that James had more control over than eh had realised and is now pretty angry at the mind games he was playin with her.. He doesn't seem to want to do anything about the situation (like confronting him or not confronting him etc.) She said that she didn't want to fool around with him but felt a bit threatened, told him to stop a few times.. She was on meds at the time and was quite drunk and it jus seems James took advantage of a bad situation..... James is still friends with Tom on Fb and he keeps 'likeing' everything that Tom says or does.. and it's really recking her head..

Any advice?? She's 27, by the way... Just showing she's no baby!! ha!!!

Just don't know what to say to her. I want to give her advice and be there for her about this situation. She really meant no harm about flirting and I believe her.. she was in a weird place and thank god she is on the rd to recovery. She just eneds too figure her hed out! I don't think she needs counselling. She's pretty good at dealing with everything, and her mum is a doctor who really is there for her 24/7. She just doesn't know what to do. She wants to tell tom to stay away from james.. and she wants to give out hell to james. James is on the offence and is saying random rumors about her (that she made it all happen, that she was leeding her on mostly - but she has every msg that she sent em and i've read massive 'fk off' messages to him when he kept trying it on with her while she was with tom before they broke up)

Feel so bad for her, any ideas?

whatsamsn

Few things op.

- James is a wa*ker. Big and obvious. He aint no mate of Tom.

- Tom is a fool. His so called "mate" James was trying it on with his girl when he was with her and stepped it up & did something when they were apart. Tom is a total fool for still being friends with this guy knowing what happened :rolleyes:

- Ciara also is at fault here. Sounds to me like its the classic "avoidance of blame" - her feeling threatened by james, telling him to sop, being on meds and drunk. These are the excuses of someone who knew what they were doing but now regret it. But rather than awknowledge it to be a mistake tis' easier to make excuses.


As for the problem of it all. Ciara is right to get shot of James. But its up to Tom to feel the same (which he should) ... So ciara can only say to tom about it so much. Rest is up to him. He needs to open his eyes.

LegacyUser

Few things op.

"- James is a wa*ker. Big and obvious. He aint no mate of Tom."

I totally agree. He is no mate of tom and I wish tom, for ciara's sake, would just tell him where to go, it's not fair on ciara and i think that james is just doing it to stir the ****e.

"- Tom is a fool. His so called "mate" James was trying it on with his girl when he was with her and stepped it up & did something when they were apart. Tom is a total fool for still being friends with this guy knowing what happened "

I remember once we were all out at a local nightclub and it was clear that James was cracking it on with ciara, and it was really clear that ciara was uncomfortable and she text me asking me to get her away from him. Tom just seemed completely in the dark about it, he just didnt no what was wrong with that situation.

"- Ciara also is at fault her. Sounds to me like its the classic "avoidance of blame" - her feeling threatened by james, telling him to sop, being on meds and drunk. These are the excuses of someone who knew what they were doing but now regret it. But rather than awknowledge it to be a mistake tis' easier to make excuses. "

I talked to caira about this a good bit and been with her since this began. She sometimes returned james's flirting, but i remember her saying she didn't know why she was doing that. I know this girl and she would never cheat, and i knew it was because of the illness that she was rebelling or something.. i dunno, she just seemed not her self, if that makes sense....

"As for the problem of it all. Ciara is right to get shot of James. But its up to Tom to feel the same (which he should) ... So ciara can only say to tom about it so much. Rest is up to him. He needs to open his eyes."

I was thinking of having a word with tom myself. Ciara has always loved tom, you see, even though she returned a flirt here and there and needed time away from tom (which ended in a bit of a mistake with regards to her fooling round with james)... she loves tom and it's so obvious. i feel so bad for her. she just feels like they can't be properly together because of this.... Like they've been together now two years (minus the one gap which was three months long) and just can't seem to get herself together.

I didn't tell her I posted this but it just helps me to put ideas together about the problem and to give her some more support. She knws tthat she is at fault too, u see, she is willing to admit it and just wants to get on with things and forget about the past. its james who just doesnt seem to want to give her that space.

Cheap Thrills!

Hi op
What has any of this got to do with you?
Ciara is a drama llama and led James on probably on the sly. Tom is just a naive mug.
Leave them to it, she is enjoying all the attention and drama.
You sound a wee bit in Ciaras thrall OP, she's a big girl, she could easily work it out herself if she wanted to.
Im not sure if you have a crush on Ciara yourself and are trying to be involved so she will be grateful to you?
Maybe not but my advice is dont get sucked into the drama. It's a storm in a teacup op.

Danniboo

I've a feeling i'll get slated for this but f**k it. I am one of those women who consider men and women equal. How the hell can men and women be equal when women get drunk and sleep with or kiss a fella and then say "Oh it was all his fault" He took advantage. Grow up. It suggest than men somehow have and advantage over us (Granted they may physically be stronger) but are we not capable of monitoriing our drinking staying within our limits and ehhh here's a crazy idea not kissing/sleeping with people we don't want to? Unless Tom was physically forceful with this girl she can't go around waving the he took advantage card. Yeah if she was ill and got very drunk it was a sleazy thing he did, but she's a grown woman, should she really be drinking anyways if she was that ill and on medication.

LegacyUser

Ha ha! No don't have a crush on ciara, I'm a girl myself so I don't see her in that light as I have a boyf and I don't like girls in that way. I think I'm just trying to sort it out for her in a way... I know that sounds a bit silly but she was there for me during some big sitatuoins in my life so i was hoping to give her a helping hand. Tom is a bit nieve, def! I think ur right, though Cheap Trills, i think its best i leafe it.

"I've a feeling i'll get slated for this but f**k it. I am one of those women who consider men and women equal. How the hell can men and women be equal when women get drunk and sleep with or kiss a fella and then say "Oh it was all his fault" He took advantage. Grow up. It suggest than men somehow have and advantage over us (Granted they may physically be stronger) but are we not capable of monitoriing our drinking staying within our limits and ehhh here's a crazy idea not kissing/sleeping with people we don't want to? Unless Tom was physically forceful with this girl she can't go around waving the he took advantage card. Yeah if she was ill and got very drunk it was a sleazy thing he did, but she's a grown woman, should she really be drinking anyways if she was that ill and on medication."

Jesus, that is a bit harsh!!! No, she isn't playing that card at all. He took advantage in once sence and not in another. Ya see, she said he tried kissin her and she pushed him away and then she left the room and he followed her (they were in a club) and she told him not to.. and then said **** it and ended up getting with him that night... She regrets it but she doesn't think he was physically forceful... just that he kinda got his way and then became a pretty mean preson to her after. I don't think she is liking the drama to bee honest. She really just wants to forget the whole thing..... like after being so ill she just wants peace and quiet. She doens't go out anymore or hang out with the group that james is in.. She keeps her distance and has stopped drinking as she continues to be on other medicine. and has swine at the moment! poor gurlie! ha ha!

gonna stay out of it for now. the thing i suppose i was looking for was seeing if my opinions were right (though not everyt1thing is black and white, as we all no!). just i thinnk that james took advantage of a bad situation that ciara didnt help at all and that tom should have stepped in earlier on as the stress wasn't good for her.... god love tom, he's a great guy, just no backbone!

i'll leave it for now and see what happens... i wasn't tryin to get involved too much, just hopin to get others opinions, ya know?

dub_3

So at the start you say Ciara isn't that much into Tom, so knowing this James makes a play. Ciara doesn't tell him to F**k off and / or tell Tom, instead responds with drunken flirting and says she likes him.

James chasing Ciara when she's sending out signals that she's not really into Tom is hardly a crime. But yes he's no mate of Tom's

Clearly Ciara has some blame for not putting James straight right from the start.

Now Ciara is back with Tom and she has fessed up to some version of what went on with James.

Hopefully Tom has a clear picture of what went on, He'll have gotten a distorted version of events from Drama Queen Ciara, but hopefully he can see through the fog.

In any event he would have come to a conclusion who was to blame (or both of them) and what to do about it.

Obviously he has forgiven Ciara, if he is still with her.

It's up to him what he does about James (it's not your problem OP)

As for Ciara, obviously she needs to keep away from James.
Any contact from James she should tell Tom about. End of story.
If Ciara is uncomfortable with Tom being friends with James, then that's a discussion that she needs to have with Tom. End of story.

I have my doubts that Tom considers James a mate. The interaction on FB seems to be all from James.

Maybe Tom has reason to not publicly dis James.

Perhaps he doesn't want to publicly say James and Ciara were carrying on behind his back. That makes him look stupid and makes Ciara look like a slut.

Perhaps he doesn't want people to think him stupid and going out with a slut.

If he loves Ciara, he might have decided the best thing is to simply forget the past and just get on with things (now that Ciara has decided that she is into him after all)

Is Tom naive? Yes probably.

To me his actions appear to be the ones chosen to keep the relationship going with Ciara, with the least amount of hassle.

That does make him a bit of a doormat, but has he chosen the right path?

Well Yes if Ciara now loves him and behaves herself from now on.

Or No if she goes off him again and begins flirting with someone else.

To the OP, if you know Ciara well then you probably already know which way it will go.

Just leave them to it, only advice to be given to Ciara is to behave herself and be honest with her partner.

Miss Fluff

In the nicest possible way OP, I fail to see how any of this is your business.

I'd steer well clear. In situations like this when a well-meaning do-gooder sticks their nose in to "help" they invariably end up being caught in the crossfire and blamed for any wrongdoings. Keep your mouth shut, don't interfere and be there for your friend to listen to her by all means. It's not your problem to get involved in.

Danniboo

"James ended up being pretty rough with Ciara"

"Ya see, she said he tried kissin her and she pushed him away and then she left the room and he followed her (they were in a club) and she told him not to.. and then said **** it and ended up getting with him that night... She regrets it but she doesn't think he was physically forceful... just that he kinda got his way and then became a pretty mean preson to her after."

That's a bit of a contrast don't ye think. Sounds like ye all love the drama. I find it very hard to believe ye are in your late 20s. Again if she has a serious illness why is she out getting sloshed while on her meds.

Taltos

Clearly Tom is a bit naive and too trusting.

Trusting in his mate.
And trusting in your friend. Hate to say it but I can see pain ahead for him. It might coincidentally coincide with her next relapse but life's like that...

As per what advice to give - stay out of this 100% - it will only bite you big time.

Best of luck.

BobPresto

This all reads like an episode of one tree hill....:(

LegacyUser

First of all, she is 27 as I said. We aren't teenagers or anything like that, it's just i never thought about this situation properly and wanted to see what others would say, ya know?

I think he was forceful. She told me that she told him to stop a few times and left the club even and he followed her then gave out sh!t to her saying she was messing with his head. Fair enough she kissed him bk at one stage, but FFS, she said STOP! Stop means no.. No means not interested.. ya know?

She had a pretty serious illness (she wudnt have died, i dont wana mention it becase it got edited last time - basically, it cud have had a huge impact on her life). She went out to a 25th b-day party and thats when it all went down. I dont think we shud judge her for what she did. She doesn't drink anymore anyway.. she never really drank much.

think i got enough out of you guyz, thanks so much for all the comments!!!

Danniboo

COncerned Friend wrote: »

First of all, she is 27 as I said. We aren't teenagers or anything like that, it's just i never thought about this situation properly and wanted to see what others would say, ya know?
I think he was forceful. She told me that she told him to stop a few times and left the club even and he followed her then gave out sh!t to her saying she was messing with his head. Fair enough she kissed him bk at one stage, but FFS, she said STOP! Stop means no.. No means not interested.. ya know?

She had a pretty serious illness (she wudnt have died, i dont wana mention it becase it got edited last time - basically, it cud have had a huge impact on her life). She went out to a 25th b-day party and thats when it all went down. I dont think we shud judge her for what she did. She doesn't drink anymore anyway.. she never really drank much.
think i got enough out of you guyz, thanks so much for all the comments!!!

Well clearly it doesn't as your friend went and kissed him. Obviously she was messing with his head, and he wanted a straight answer and knew there was a chance of them hooking up, which ehhh clearly she proved to be right. I think you should rethink your grammar, saying someone was forceful suggests he was physically rough with her and can be damaging to a persons name, like he tried to rape her or something. You all sound very immature to be honest.I'm not judging anyone just think that maybe if she hadn't of got sloshed while on meds for a "serious illness" she may not have been so confused about her decisions.

LegacyUser

Danniboo wrote: »

Well clearly it doesn't as your friend went and kissed him. Obviously she was messing with his head, and he wanted a straight answer and knew there was a chance of them hooking up, which ehhh clearly she proved to be right. I think you should rethink your grammar, saying someone was forceful suggests he was physically rough with her and can be damaging to a persons name, like he tried to rape her or something. You all sound very immature to be honest.I'm not judging anyone just think that maybe if she hadn't of got sloshed while on meds for a "serious illness" she may not have been so confused about her decisions.

Em, don't call me immature, Danniboo. I am doing my best here... and my grammaer is weak i suppose, more of a maths person. I'm not a poster ere that often and I dont work where i need to write a lot as i've my own problems with that.. but thanks for bringing it up

i'm just saying how she told it. she said he was forceful... i'm posting again because more of the story came out last night... i went over to her's to discuss the situation after thiking more about it from what u guyz have said... she seemed a bit sad or something and then the real truth came out which she had been hiding from me.

when tom and ciara first started going on they went away to manchester with a group of the guys from home. tom has friends in manchester and went to stay with them one of the nites. ciara and all went out that night and got pretty drunk but ciara only had one or two as she doesnt like drinkin when far from home just in case (this was before diagnosis). that night she had told one of two of the lads that things with tom were goin grand but it was early days and she didnt know where it was going but she didnt think theyd be together for logn, tom has said similr to them... everyone was sleepin in the same dorm of the hostel and james was in one of the beds next to her.... theyd bin chattin bits over the nite but ciara said it wasnt flirty at all.

she woke up to james's hand down her pants and him kissin her neck. she pushed him off and told him to go to bed. he was pretty drunk and she isnt sure if he remembers it and if he does he hasnt mentioned it since...

im pretty shcocked by the whole thing. she said she is over it, but that thats why she kissed him back the second night.. she felt a bit threatened and just went for it (not to fight it and to go with it thou she was prety drunk at the time). this happened over a year ago. shud i get her to talk to someon1? she told me that tom doesnt know.

Danniboo

Concerned Friend back wrote: »

Em, don't call me immature, Danniboo. I am doing my best here... and my grammaer is weak i suppose, more of a maths person. I'm not a poster ere that often and I dont work where i need to write a lot as i've my own problems with that.. but thanks for bringing it up

It's not rocket science if you say to someone that some guy was forceful with your friend they immediately think he was physically abusive to her.

i'm just saying how she told it. she said he was forceful... i'm posting again because more of the story came out last night... i went over to her's to discuss the situation after thiking more about it from what u guyz have said... she seemed a bit sad or something and then the real truth came out which she had been hiding from me.

when tom and ciara first started going on they went away to manchester with a group of the guys from home. tom has friends in manchester and went to stay with them one of the nites. ciara and all went out that night and got pretty drunk but ciara only had one or two as she doesnt like drinkin when far from home just in case (this was before diagnosis). that night she had told one of two of the lads that things with tom were goin grand but it was early days and she didnt know where it was going but she didnt think theyd be together for logn, tom has said similr to them... everyone was sleepin in the same dorm of the hostel and james was in one of the beds next to her.... theyd bin chattin bits over the nite but ciara said it wasnt flirty at all.

she woke up to james's hand down her pants and him kissin her neck. she pushed him off and told him to go to bed. he was pretty drunk and she isnt sure if he remembers it and if he does he hasnt mentioned it since...

im pretty shcocked by the whole thing. she said she is over it, but that thats why she kissed him back the second night.. she felt a bit threatened and just went for it (not to fight it and to go with it thou she was prety drunk at the time). this happened over a year ago. shud i get her to talk to someon1? she told me that tom doesnt know.

Not to be disrespectful but I can't understand why you keep bringing up your friends previous illness as it seems irrelevant to the story. I would suggest your friend tell Tom the full story and consider possibly talking to the guards if you do consider James to be a threat or capable of hurting someone, though I have a feeling there'll be another couple of versions of the truth before this thing is solved.

I also can't understand why she flirted with someone she was threatened by and why leave the club when she knew he was following her why not say something to the bouncers, organise a taxi? phone a friend?

LegacyUser

If you read my last message I didnt mention the illness, i said she was away which was before the illness once that was just to give a timeframe ... it had nothing to do with her.

i'll go talk to ciara again and tell her to talk to someone if she needs it. im just very shocked at the mo.

sbsquarepants

I think you both sound like a pair of drama queens to be quite honest. Your friend slept with someone, of her own free will, and then he blanked her, it's a big bad world, she is responsable for her actions no matter how much she regrets them after - the pair of you need to grow up a bit, and you need to learn to mind your business!
PS: If the pair of you are in your late twenties then i'm Barack Obama!

BobPresto

I'm probably gonna get another infractions for this but have ye gave watsherface
any of the advice you've been given on this thread?

I got an infraction for my last comment but the more this goes on the more it seems
I'm right......

LegacyUser

She is 27....

Think I've said enuf. You guys gave some great advice and i think its best if I stop lookin at the net for answers. She will figure it out without me one way or other.

And he didnt blank her after they were together, i never said that not sure where you got that from. He instead was nice to her while spreadin stuff bout her.

Obviously this aint bein read right.

I never said what age I was, btw.

Danniboo

QUOTE=Concerned Friend;70032106]She is 27....
Think I've said enuf. You guys gave some great advice and i think its best if I stop lookin at the net for answers. She will figure it out without me one way or other.
And he didnt blank her after they were together, i never said that not sure where you got that from. He instead was nice to her while spreadin stuff bout her.Obviously this aint bein read right.
He was nice to her? I thought he was forceful and persistent and wouldn't leave her alone? This makes less sense the more you post.
I never said what age I was, btw.[/QUOTE]
You're quite young then?

LegacyUser

He was guilty. Either I'm explainin myself badly or you aint reading it proporly. All that stuff happened and he remained normal to her to her face. She didnt tell anyone bout the hostel thing til now, because they she put it down to a drunkent hing and let go, but now its becoming an issue for her.... because tom and james are still pally. During the time they were together james was spreading stuff to the lads of that group sayin she had initiated it all etc etc. though shed admit it if she did because she is a genuine person and very honest.

i really, really dont have to say what age (my business) i am and im not liking your tone in ur messages. thank you for commenting on this topic Daniboo but i dont think your saying anything useful, ur just nit-picking and being a bit mean. if you dont have advice to give and ur instead just trying to somehow catch me out then why bother? id ask the people in charge to either keep an eye on how this chat is going or for Daniboo just try to look at the facts here rather then just look down on me for whatever reason.

The story is, for anyone who isnt following it properly...

James was told to go away a few times by ciara during her relationship with tom (ive seen massive texts from ciara to james telling him to bugger off)...When james and ciara slept in the same room ciara woke up to james basically forcing himself on her which ciara was upset about but got over because she knew it was a drunken thing and taught it wud cause more hassel at the time. tom and ciara broke up as ciara was undergoin treatment and on meds. one night she let loose, got drunk and was followed round a club by james. she told james to go away, but was single at the time and decided to fool around with james after all that had happened to see if there was chemistry as she thought that her and tom wud never get back. at this point tom and james werent hanging out at all for other reasons and tom was plannin on moving away anyway. after that night ciara felt that james was being a bit stalkerish and felt that she had been unfair kissin him so told james to back off one and for all. he had been a nusance during her relationship with tom (texts, phonecalls etc.) and tom used to get pretty annoyed by it. now tom and ciara are back together and james is tryin to niggle has way back in.

i wont be doin anythin or givin ciara any more advice and leavin her to it. im not goin to explain the story again.

Danniboo

Concerned Freind wrote: »

He was guilty. Either I'm explainin myself badly or you aint reading it proporly. All that stuff happened and he remained normal to her to her face. She didnt tell anyone bout the hostel thing til now, because they she put it down to a drunkent hing and let go, but now its becoming an issue for her.... because tom and james are still pally. During the time they were together james was spreading stuff to the lads of that group sayin she had initiated it all etc etc. though shed admit it if she did because she is a genuine person and very honest.

i really, really dont have to say what age (my business) i am and im not liking your tone in ur messages. thank you for commenting on this topic Daniboo but i dont think your saying anything useful, ur just nit-picking and being a bit mean. if you dont have advice to give and ur instead just trying to somehow catch me out then why bother? id ask the people in charge to either keep an eye on how this chat is going or for Daniboo just try to look at the facts here rather then just look down on me for whatever reason.

I've already told you she should tell James and go to the guards. I'm not nit picking or being mean, i'm simply trying to get the facts how else can people give constructive advice. This is not meant to an insult but you seem a bit naive, a word of friendly advice would be to take whatever Ciara and James say with a pinch of salt and maybe keep out of it as much as you can.

The story is, for anyone who isnt following it properly...

James was told to go away a few times by ciara during her relationship with tom (ive seen massive texts from ciara to james telling him to bugger off)...When james and ciara slept in the same room ciara woke up to james basically forcing himself on her which ciara was upset about but got over because she knew it was a drunken thing and taught it wud cause more hassel at the time. tom and ciara broke up as ciara was undergoin treatment and on meds. one night she let loose, got drunk and was followed round a club by james. she told james to go away, but was single at the time and decided to fool around with james after all that had happened to see if there was chemistry as she thought that her and tom wud never get back. at this point tom and james werent hanging out at all for other reasons and tom was plannin on moving away anyway. after that night ciara felt that james was being a bit stalkerish and felt that she had been unfair kissin him so told james to back off one and for all. he had been a nusance during her relationship with tom (texts, phonecalls etc.) and tom used to get pretty annoyed by it. now tom and ciara are back together and james is tryin to niggle has way back in.


i wont be doin anythin or givin ciara any more advice and leavin her to it. im not goin to explain the story again.

I'm alarmed that anyone would want to see if there's "chemistry" with someone who basically she claims "sexually assaulted" or "forced himself" on her.

Can you honestly not see how insane that sounds?

sbsquarepants

I'm with Dani on this one, this whole story is ridiculous!

LegacyUser

I'm only the messenger. I wanted advice and this isn't helpful to me or ciara.

Can someone close this or delete it. It's silly at this sgate

LegacyUser

Baniboo, or whatever ur called...

I also think that when you wake up to a guy with their hands down your bands and your tonghue down your throat when you have given him no reason to is 'forcing himself'.... what the f?!

maybe the other situation in the club wasnt 'forceful' because she went a long with it but the first time in the hostel proves he is a bit weird.

dub_3

Danniboo wrote: »

I'm alarmed that anyone would want to see if there's "chemistry" with someone who basically she claims "sexually assaulted" or "forced himself" on her.

Can you honestly not see how insane that sounds?

OP you've told us Ciara claims James sexually assaulted her early on.
For various reasons she doesn't report it (well ok I understand that)

But for her to write it off simply as drunken behaviour is quite frankly bizarre.
(or she's lying about the assault)

I don't think any normal person would have anything to do with James after that.
But you tell us she flirts with him by txt and even snogs him.

To me it seems she's beyond your help (or anything your likely to get on here)
She needs to seek professional help to deal with her problems.

Oryx

Closing this at op request.