Would you attend a dinner invite if...

LegacyUser

Hi,

Your comments and opinions to the following would be much appreciated.

I've recently been invited to a very good (but not very long) friend's home for dinner to celebrate an important occasions/achievement for her.

The thing is, not so long ago she told me that her boyfriend/fiance is basically a homophobe and is 'uncomfortable' around gay guys. I have met this chap a couple of times and he has been quite rude in my presence and made no effort to talk with me. Now I know why.

So this dinner will be hosted by my friend and her homophobe fiance. Frankly I find this guys attitude disgusting and am tempted to tell my friend that I am not comfortable coming to her home because of him. When she initially told me about his attitude to gay people I just asked her why he had that opinion and mildly offered up my objections. I really regret not kicking up a bigger fuss to her. And actually she even still got quite defensive to my mild criticism of him and sort of just joked it off. I left it at that.

Now, I think my friend will be taken back if I refuse her invite and I see a good old argument brewing as she will try to defend her fiance. But I really feel I need to make a point here. The easy option for me is to just attend this dinner, swallow my pride, and fight back the urge to punch this guy across the dinner table. But do I take the easy option or risk losing/damaging a very good friendship.

What would you do?

Aard

Will you enjoy the evening? If yes, go. If not, don't.

azezil

If she's that good of a friend I'd just smile and bare it. You're not going to win any kind of argument which could potentially result in her choosing between you and the man she loves and intends to marry.

baby and crumble

I probably wouldn't go, because your friend wont call her fiance on his behaiour unless she starts loosing face or friends because of it.

Put it this way, if the issue were race, would you be happy going to a dinner party where one of the hosts was incredibly racist towards your particular race?

Or just in general, why would you want to go to the house of an idiot who is rude and insulting to you?

Jinxi

I had a similar situation with a good and long term friend. Inspite of how long we had know each other and our similar moral views, she hooked up and had a child with a neo-nazi. I was incredulous but all critism of him (and her for looking the other way) was met with stoney silence. The only retort she had was that she didn't share the same views, so I really shouldn't have a problem with it.
Turns out their relationship was short lived(no surprise there), but our friendship ended shortly after that. I could never reconcile how she coulds state one set of believes and yet love/live/procreate with someone who was so disgusting. Later, when she back stabbed our mutual friend who was coming out, by sleeping with her ex and tell everyone she was gay before she was ready, I realised that she just was two faced. I should have guessed from the origional situation

DS333

I'm surprised that he hasn't objected to your being invited. If you do go, show your best side and he might be converted. I've seen it happen before.

But, if he's truly obnoxious and will really upset you, you'd be mad to go.

Chuchoter

I wouldn't go. I think if you get engaged to someone with those kind of beliefs then you are equally as culpable for them as they are. She is two-faced and if she really is very close friend she has already betrayed you by saying what this guy does is OK.

wonderfulname

I'd go, but that's the polite Irish person in me talking, as the night progressed the divil in me would probably start winding him up though and that wouldn't be the best outcome... He'll get used to you over time and the homophobia will subside, either that or you'll be seen as a separate entity, and the only person in the world for whom its okay to be gay.

Jinxi

It wouldn't sit right with me. Why would you want to be around someone who is hateful. And why would you wnat to be friends with a girl who can love someone who is biggoted?
Although, I do like the idea of going and stirring the sh*t. Maybe even be a little flirty with your friend. ha ha.:D

stephen_n

I'd go and make sure to draw him out on his homophobia, stay passive and friendly and let him make a show of himself in front of his friends. If you don't go your friend will probably take it badly but as was pointed out she will not side with you over him either so best to let him show himself up!

Sir Ophiuchus

I wouldn't go. Not least because from how you've described this guy, it's very likely he'll come out with something homophobic at the dinner table. Your options then boil down to:

1) Ignore it, and be passively insulted by your host.

2) Respond politely, and be blamed for derailing the night, or actively insulted.

3) Respond in kind, and break your obligations as a guest.

None of those are particularly attractive.

LegacyUser

Thanks a lot for your opinions on this one. It does help as I'm really struggling to decide what the best course of action is here.

I think the racial analogy does put things into perspective for me. What if I was asian for instance and she told me that her boyfriend had a problem with asian people and was uncomfortable around them. Could I really be expected to attend a dinner co-hosted by him? Would you guys that suggested I should still attend the dinner regardless also advise to attend if it involved the above racial bigotry? I think there is zero difference when it come to homophobia to be honest.

However I am still tempted to just go with the flow, ignore my friend's boyfriend and not cause a scene, for hers and our friendships sake. But maybe these are exactly the sort of situations where we need to alienate these people with these pre-historic attitudes, even if it does mean losing a friend over it.

I've yet to hear a convincing argument why I should not kick up a fuss. Anyone else wanna try? : )

Endymion

DS333 wrote: »

I'm surprised that he hasn't objected to your being invited. If you do go, show your best side and he might be converted. I've seen it happen before.

But, if he's truly obnoxious and will really upset you, you'd be mad to go.

In these situations the person doesn't change their attitude, they just mark you down as an exception to the rules.

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

I wouldn't go. Not least because from how you've described this guy, it's very likely he'll come out with something homophobic at the dinner table. Your options then boil down to:

1) Ignore it, and be passively insulted by your host.

2) Respond politely, and be blamed for derailing the night, or actively insulted.

3) Respond in kind, and break your obligations as a guest.

None of those are particularly attractive.

There are also obligations as a host. I'd go, eat his food, drink his beer and piss on his lawn. I've never been one for making allowances for other people's hang ups.

Sir Ophiuchus

Endymion wrote: »

There are also obligations as a host. I'd go, eat his food, drink his beer and piss on his lawn. I've never been one for making allowances for other people's hang ups.

Unfortunately, your host breaking his obligations doesn't let you break yours. Well, it does, but it doesn't make it okay.

Endymion

You can always just say it's a gay thing.

Shelli2

I agree with Stephen, I'd go and let him make a fool of himself on front of the others there, maybe then your friend will see that his views are not ok and it's not just you making a fuss. You'll be the one smelling of roses at the end of the night. Do not let idiotic people like her boyfriend and his stoneage views stop you seeing your friend and celebrating her special occasion. I'd cut her a bit of slack, she doesn't share his views, and people in love can tend to be a bit blind to their loved ones flaws. Give her a chance, be the bigger person and attend the event, be polite and don't rise to any bait he may throw at you, guarantee he'll look and feel like a fool by the end of the night.

Good luck!

ninty9er

I'd go and act as if the last time never happened. Although she defended him, there's a possibility she called him on it afterwards and just didn't want to lose face.

If he acts like a muppet this time, leave after (very briefly) explaining to all there why you are leaving, however don't cause a scene as that may just prove a stereotype and you will be the discussion point for the evening, not him.

DubArk

If I spent my life not going to things because there was a homophobe there or may be a homophobe there, I really wouldn’t get very far.

Just because he has been rude by not talking to you and your friend has told you that he’s uncomfortable been around gays, doesn’t give you the right to kick up a fuss! They may very well be uncomfortable been around gays, you don’t know his experience in life, do you? The fact that he hasn’t put his foot down and said that he won’t attend if you’re there, seems to me; that maybe they aren’t as upset with the situation as you are.

My advice is to go, put you best foot forward and if they ignore you all night, so be it. As long as they’re not openly rude, as in make homophobic remarks, I can’t see where you’d benefit from making a fuss?!

gmale

I would go, I would sit there and smile and engage in conversation, I would be nice and pleasant and polite to everybody and I would do my best to have a good time.

If you go there and confront him or try to humiliate him or start an argument you will be stooping to his level. Rise above it, be the bigger man. You wont get him to change his outlook on life if you are battering him with a liberal philisophy, he needs to be educated and that can only happen if he choses to accept that he has something to learn.

Also, if you do go and make a statement and belittle your friends finace, you will lose that friend. Maybe not immediately, but eventually, she is marrying him, not you! Are you prepared to sacrifice your friendships for his immaturity.

Be the gay guy that makes a difference and grows acceptance by education and leading by example, not by straight bashing

Hardaway

i would invite him over for something w/ some of ur queer friends first "to get to know him better since he is marrying ur best friend for gawds sake", if he refuses u can refuse, if you have to squirm for a night why shouldnt he

Hardaway

also seems p. ****ty of ur best friend to expect u to be okay w/ her homophobic boyfriend my god

MicraBoy

I would go to be honest. My logic would be to give it a chance. You are sort of speculating he will be an arse in his own home, he may be perfectly pleasant for all you know. If he does act like a knob then at least you know for future reference.

Secondly I think no matter what the reason is, if you stop attending things because of one person, you are just making life hard on yourself. Surely there will be other people there too, you can focus on them and ignore him if you have to. Rarely is it the case that one person can ruin your entire evening if you yourself a reasonably social person.

Finally if its a celebration for your friend, its really not about you and her boyfriend, its about her. You should be doing your best to make it special for her. You can't control the fiances actions but you certainly can be the better man by you own behavior.

deirdre_dub

nousername529 wrote: »

I've yet to hear a convincing argument why I should not kick up a fuss. Anyone else wanna try? : )

Because all that can happen from kicking up a fuss is that you lose her.

She is not going to choose you over him.

As for whether you go or not - it's a judgement call you have to make. Is it possible that she has since pulled him up on his behaviour, and that her invite to you is actually her testing him to see if he has changed his tune towards you?

He might be rude to you, but he cannot go much further than that without causing her discomfort, which he isn't going to do (unless he is stupid / cocky / abusive).

In other words, if you do go, make sure that the only person who kicks up a fuss or otherwise causes trouble is HIM.

As for the situation in general - has he ever been rude towards you in her presence? If not, then this is your golden opportunity to "show him up". If, on the other hand, he has been, and she has still defended him, then it's not looking so good...

Hardaway

p low case being made for bros b4 hos in this thread

DubArk

Hardaway wrote: »

p low case being made for bros b4 hos in this thread

What?

rainbow kirby

Hardaway wrote: »

p low case being made for bros b4 hos in this thread

(1) No text speak allowed on boards.ie

(2) This is not AH.

LegacyUser

Again, thanks for all the replies guys. It's helping me find some perspective now. And I am slowly edging from not attending back to attending. However a few other points I'd make.

I'm not particularly concerned about how this guy will act around me or what he might say to me. Whatever, I need pay no attention and I would be there just for my friend. In fact, I think he would be perfectly civil and pleasant. He's not gonna cause a scene. He probably doesn't even know that I know his views of gay people.

The point is, that this is his home and my presence will apparently make him uncomfortable. I don't think I want to accept an invitation from someone who is a homophone and 'uncomfortable' around gay people. It's more the principle than anything. I wouldn't think twice if this was a dinner out someplace or a party some place else. It's not his presence but his/their invitation to their home.

I again return to the racism analogy. Can I ask those posters (Shelli2, Ninty9er, DubArk etc) who said I should attend, if their views would be exactly the same if this guy said he did not like people who were black and felt uncomfortable around black people? Would you also tell a black person in this situation to attend his home for a dinner and to just swallow their pride?

If I can get my head around that, I may just attend.

Does this make sense or am I just over reacting?

wonderfulname

nousername529 wrote: »

I again return to the racism analogy. Can I ask those posters (Shelli2, Ninty9er, DubArk etc) who said I should attend, if their views would be exactly the same if this guy said he did not like people who were black and felt uncomfortable around black people? Would you also tell a black person in this situation to attend his home for a dinner and to just swallow their pride?

Actually, now that you put it that way, I'd say walk in there with your head held high. Why allow yourself to feel put down? Maybe its my backward logic, but pride-wise, is it not worse to do something because of homophobia than to do something in spite of it? And as I said before, except worded better, your existence within his comfort zone will challenge his views, and what's wrong with that?

foggy_lad

If I was in some way straight and engaged to a woman who spent a lot of time with her gay best friend whom I did not know at all I might be a little uncomfortable being in the same room as him.

He may not be homophobic at all but may be a bit jealous of the relationship you have with his fiance.

I would ask your friend again what exactly was said by her fiancee that she considered homophobic and from that just say that you would not feel right going as you and him could not get along due to his attitudes and your need to defend yourself.

DubArk

nousername529 wrote: »

I again return to the racism analogy. Can I ask those posters (Shelli2, Ninty9er, DubArk etc) who said I should attend, if their views would be exactly the same if this guy said he did not like people who were black and felt uncomfortable around black people? Would you also tell a black person in this situation to attend his home for a dinner and to just swallow their pride?

If I can get my head around that, I may just attend.

Does this make sense or am I just over reacting?

I can see where you’re coming from and yes if I was black, I still would attend and not play into others prejudice; as it’s all too easy for both of you. I remember when I was younger that I too had misguided beliefs about certain sections of society and not till I was face to face with these people, that I realized how misguided I was and how bigoted I could be.

What's the worse that could happen? He still doesn’t like you but at least you tried.

Go, enjoy and be yourself….

stephen_n

nousername529 wrote: »

I again return to the racism analogy. Can I ask those posters (Shelli2, Ninty9er, DubArk etc) who said I should attend, if their views would be exactly the same if this guy said he did not like people who were black and felt uncomfortable around black people? Would you also tell a black person in this situation to attend his home for a dinner and to just swallow their pride?

If I can get my head around that, I may just attend.

Does this make sense or am I just over reacting?

Yes I would and furthermore I think you have got your idea of pride the wrong way around. You are not swallowing your pride by going but you certainly would be by staying away. If you stay away you are not being proud of who you are, you are backing down to his ignorance. By going and acting with dignity and staying above him, you are displaying your pride. At least that's how I would see it anyway.

Zillah

A couple of years ago I had the experience of sitting at a table with a group of people, one of whom was a homophobe. He made a couple of comments that while not outright offensive were verging towards it, and it was clearly a big deal for him. His girlfriend was a really lovely person and clearly a little embarrassed by him, so I did my absolute best to overlook it and keep the atmosphere at the table genial.

To this day I still regret not telling him to go fuck himself and then leaving the table.


Personally, I would tell your friend that you're not going to attend and make it clear it is because her fiance is a biggot. You shouldn't be expected to sit at a table with someone who treats you with contempt, and she shouldn't expect you to. Who knows, maybe she'll explain that he's trying to turn over a new leaf... I absolutely wouldn't consider going if he was simply going to "put up" with me.

Zillah

stephen_n wrote: »

Yes I would and furthermore I think you have got your idea of pride the wrong way around. You are not swallowing your pride by going but you certainly would be by staying away. If you stay away you are not being proud of who you are, you are backing down to his ignorance. By going and acting with dignity and staying above him, you are displaying your pride. At least that's how I would see it anyway.

I disagree. If this were a case of someone at work, or on the street, or in a shop etc, then absolutely keep your head high and don't let them impact you in any way. But a social occassion is for mutual enjoyment, attending a dinner hosted by a biggot and silently enduring his contempt is insulting. Not attending is a boycott.

ninty9er

If you were to substitute black and racist I would still go.

People place too much importance on other people's opinions, but inversely I know a good few gay guys in particular who look for offence in off the cuff comments where none is intended.

stephen_n

Zillah wrote: »

I disagree. If this were a case of someone at work, or on the street, or in a shop etc, then absolutely keep your head high and don't let them impact you in any way. But a social occassion is for mutual enjoyment, attending a dinner hosted by a biggot and silently enduring his contempt is insulting. Not attending is a boycott.

Horses for courses, to me not attending is running away and accepting that there is something wrong, that somehow you are less than and not good enough to attend. The OP has done nothing wrong.

LegacyUser

Ok...convinced now...I'll go!

Thanks for the opinions and advise.