Can I teach with my degree

Choclolate

I have an engineering degree and with that degree I am qualified to teach Maths. This is based on information from the teaching council.

Do you need 2 subject to be employed as a teacher.

Or can I just teach Physics and Applied Maths etc as I am completent in these.

I suppose the basic question is should I pursue teaching with this dregree or do I need a second qualification.

Thanks

ASVM

You need to do the Higher Diploma in Education can't think of the new name they have put on it.But without that you are very limited as to getting work. Maths is a good subject to have and good Maths teacher seem to be scarce.You could try to get some subbing first see if you actually like teaching or volunteer your services to a school what with all the cut backs in education etc.Also teachers normally have two teaching subjects to degree level.Work is very scarce and if you do go on to do the teaching qualification get ready for the scores of other applicants at interviews.Teaching is over subscribed so schools often get hundreds of cvs for just one job.Good luck!

UnLuckyAgain

ASVM wrote: »

You need to do the Higher Diploma in Education can't think of the new name they have put on it.

Postgraduate Diploma in Education (PGDE)

Choclolate

Yes I ill be doing my PGDE

The teaching council recognise my degree to teach maths.

Will I be able to get a teaching job with this or do I need to do another physics degree or something like that.

Can you teach subjects in schools when the TC dont recognise them.

spurious

If you have a recognised degree and teaching qualification and are registered with the teaching council then you can get a job.
'Can' get a job in the sense that I 'could' win the lotto by the summer, but not without an awful lot of luck. There are hundreds of unemployed teachers out there. There are thousands more in 'jobs' with small numbers of hours, who will be looking for more.
The numbers of jobs are dwindling, conditions and pay are deteriorating, but yes, with a recognised degree and a teaching qualification you could get a job.

I don't understand the question about schools not being recognised by the TC.

Toto Wolfcastle

I think he means can he teach physics even though the TC don't recognise him to teach it.

Short answer: No.

There have been cases where teachers who are already teaching in a school have been given subjects that they're not qualified to teach. I would be surprised though if a maths teacher was given a physics class though. You wouldn't get a physics job by going to an interview for one. There are simply too many qualified teachers out there looking for work.

Choclolate

So would it be right to say that I am wasting my time doing teaching with just Maths (maybe applied maths but that not too popular).

Is it difficult to get recognised to teach a second subject.

Toto Wolfcastle

Choclolate wrote: »

So would it be right to say that I am wasting my time doing teaching with just Maths (maybe applied maths but that not too popular).

It will be much more difficult to get a job with just one subject but there are teachers out there who just teach Maths so it's not impossible.

Choclolate wrote: »

Is it difficult to get recognised to teach a second subject.

You need a degree in that subject. So it depends on whether you will find doing another degree difficult.

Choclolate

But would most graduates only have a degree in one subject. Especially technical degrees.

So if I entered a school as a maths teacher, would I be allowed to take a pass physics class etc.

Am I at a major disadvantage with only maths and applied maths.

I am at the junction in life and am teriffied to study teaching and then find it impossible to get at job.,

Choclolate

I assume this is a position many people have been in.

I find the Teaching Council unbelievably unhelpful. If you went to any other professional organisation they bend over backwards to help you.

For some reason the TC try their hardest to be obstructive

I cant believe they get away with this.

EoghanRua

Choclolate wrote: »

But would most graduates only have a degree in one subject. Especially technical degrees.

So if I entered a school as a maths teacher, would I be allowed to take a pass physics class etc.

Am I at a major disadvantage with only maths and applied maths.

I am at the junction in life and am teriffied to study teaching and then find it impossible to get at job.,

Most teachers would hold a BA in two subjects and would be qualified to teach both subjects assuming both subjects were second-level school subjects. So I would say most teachers would have two subjects.

Naturally in many cases this is not so clear. There are many teachers who will have business degress and science degrees, or other types of degree which contain languages, and their teaching capacity will be decided by the specific contents of their degrees. Ultimately the Teaching Council is the arbiter of such matters.

In relation to employability, it is more common for two subjects to be advertised. That is not to say that someone with the capacity to teach just one of them cannot apply and cannot apply successfully, but their chances are obviously reduced. That said, if someone has to have just the one subject, anecdotally Maths seems to be one of the better ones to have.

Can you teach a subject you do not have a degree in? In terms of getting employment in the first instance the answer is probably 'no' and as far as the Teaching Council is concerned the answer is definitely 'no'. There are some local arrangements in schools whereby teachers teach to junior levels etc. in subjects they have some experience of but this is more something to benefit from when you're in the door rather than something which will open doors for you. This of course strictly speaking is in contravention of TC guidelines but needs must.

So you are at a disadvantage with only Maths - I could not say if it's a 'major' disadvantage. Certainly Physics would not be the greatest complementary subject as it's Leaving Cert only and the numbers sitting it would not be huge around the country.

If you have not already done so it might be an idea to have your degree assessed by the TC. I know they are seen as being obstructive and hidebound by red tape but they are the one who decide such matters in the end.

awny

Choclolate wrote: »

I assume this is a position many people have been in.

I find the Teaching Council unbelievably unhelpful. If you went to any other professional organisation they bend over backwards to help you.

For some reason the TC try their hardest to be obstructive

I cant believe they get away with this.

Chocolate I'm totally with you on the Teaching Council being unhelpful but this isnt really the fault of the teaching council. If your only qualified to teach Maths, you will have to take up extra modules to make up the shortfall for Applied Maths and Physics (if you wish to teach them). Just because you covered them in your degree doesnt automatically mean you are qualified to teach them. I myself am eligible to teach Maths and Applied Maths, but not Physics. And to be honest, there is plenty of qualified Science teachers who are qualified to teach Physics to Leaving Cert and rightfully would probably get the Physics hours in a school

Choclolate

I dont want to turn this into a TC bashing thread.

But I have a standard TCD Engineering Degree.

When you say to do extra modules can you do these during your teacher training year, or is it something that has to be done seperatly to your teaching. ie what is the best way to go about getting an additional subject.

I am doing my interviews this month and the TC will take months to get back to me and charge me a packet. Dont mind paying but they accredit hundreds of TCD degrees and know mine already.

Why can they not just tell me and chage me to get it dont officially when i need to.

EoghanRua

Choclolate wrote: »

I am doing my interviews this month and the TC will take months to get back to me and charge me a packet. Dont mind paying but they accredit hundreds of TCD degrees and know mine already.

Sorry, I don't understand why you are applying to the TC for accreditation if they know your degree already?

Is it not the case that you can take different options in your degree which might affect it from a teaching perspective? That's usually I would have thought why people apply to them separately for individual recognition. But are you saying that your degree is a standard degree with unvarying content?

If so, and they have made an assessment on the general degree already then surely you are wasting your time and money?

dory

Choclolate wrote: »

I dont want to turn this into a TC bashing thread.

But I have a standard TCD Engineering Degree.

When you say to do extra modules can you do these during your teacher training year, or is it something that has to be done seperatly to your teaching. ie what is the best way to go about getting an additional subject.

I am doing my interviews this month and the TC will take months to get back to me and charge me a packet. Dont mind paying but they accredit hundreds of TCD degrees and know mine already.

Why can they not just tell me and chage me to get it dont officially when i need to.

They mean after you do the PGDE, then you can go do a night course, or an online course in Physics or Applied Maths (if you can find such a course) and you can do modules that would allow you become recognised later.

For now your choice is whether or not you want to become a Maths teacher.
You won't be able to do the extra stuff in the interim so that you can do your Dip in 2 subjects. So just go ahead, do it in one if you want and take your chances.
You can't blame the TC for having rules, and you're being pretty unclear when you type here - so it's possible the TC can't get what you're trying to say either.

Choclolate

Sorry if I am not clear.

I want to be a maths teacher. But am afriad to do hy HDip and then find out cannot get a job, not because of the economy but because of my qualification.

My understanding is that you need 2 subjects, I will only have maths.

I am trying to get a handle on how difficult it is to qualifiy to teach another subject.

Can I do a crash course overa couple of weeks.
Can I study one as part of the HDIP
A Course online
Or just take a competency exam.

I would love to teach sience.

dory

Choclolate wrote: »

Can I do a crash course overa couple of weeks.
Can I study one as part of the HDIP
A Course online
Or just take a competency exam.

I would love to teach sience.

1) No
2) No
3) Yes
4) No
5) Then.....do a science degree?

Sorry for the bluntness, just trying to make it clear to you.

The step forward from here is to apply to the teaching council, asking them to specifically tell you how much of your degree would count toward applied maths and/or physics and how many credits you need to take to fulfill this. Then you have to find such a course that will allow you do these credits.

Choclolate

I have a degree - its an engineering degree.

But thanks for the information.

Do you know what type of online courses they are or who runs them.

Is it a degree course, a 2 or 3 month course which I can do in the evenings during my teacher training or will it take a seperate year.

The cost would also be an issue.

I am in my late 30s now - so not much time left,

solerina

Yes, you can get a job with only maths and teach only maths....if thats what the school needs.
The fact that most teachers have a second subject doesnt mean that you must have one to get a job (unless the school is lking for someone with 2 subjects). You will ofetn see subjects advertised alone.
If you need to do extra modules to bring your degree up to the required amount to teach physics then look to the Open University or similar (I know a few people doing maths modules to bring their degrees up the the required level/ percentage to teach maths)

dory

Choclolate wrote: »

I have a degree - its an engineering degree.

But thanks for the information.

Do you know what type of online courses they are or who runs them.

Is it a degree course, a 2 or 3 month course which I can do in the evenings during my teacher training or will it take a seperate year.

The cost would also be an issue.

I am in my late 30s now - so not much time left,

I know you have a degree, I was saying get a science degree if you want to teach science.
There's no way you'll find a course that would bring up your credits in 2 - 3 months. Courses start in September and have exams in January or May with results in the summer.

Maybe you should talk to some principals about the possibility of being employed with just Maths.

Choclolate

Great.


Thanks for all the help.

If I get offered the teacher training course Ill try to do an additional course in the evenings to bring up my credits.

I hear that there is a bit of need for maths teachers in the market at the moment.

EoghanRua

Choclolate wrote: »

If I get offered the teacher training course Ill try to do an additional course in the evenings to bring up my credits.

I think you might be underestimating the busyness of the PGDE. Many of your evenings will be spent on class plans or, when the time comes, assignments.

rainbowtrout

Choclolate wrote: »

Sorry if I am not clear.

I want to be a maths teacher. But am afriad to do hy HDip and then find out cannot get a job, not because of the economy but because of my qualification.

My understanding is that you need 2 subjects, I will only have maths.

I am trying to get a handle on how difficult it is to qualifiy to teach another subject.

Can I do a crash course overa couple of weeks.
Can I study one as part of the HDIP
A Course online
Or just take a competency exam.

I would love to teach sience.

I'm sorry, but the increasing frequency at which I'm seeing posts of this nature on this forum enrages me.

What makes you think that you can take an extreme shortcut to gaining a qualification in a subject by doing a short course or a quick competency exam when everyone else who holds the qualification had to spend 3-4 years studying for a degree in the subject????

Like everyone else has said here, if you want another subject for teaching purposes, either do another degree or find out what modules you need to take in your chosen subject from the TC and go and do them with a university in Ireland or through Open University.

I spent four years doing a science degree to qualify me to teach science. I'd hate to think that my qualification or anyone else who has a similar qualification to mine could be so cheaply undermined by a 3-4 week mickey mouse course. It's the same as someone doing ECDL and calling themselves a software developer after it. And no doubt you are familiar from your engineering degree that technical/science based degrees have a lot of lab hours associated with them. Where do you think you would get this experience in the options you have listed above??

Add that to the 6-7k cost of the PGDE and consider very carefully your career plans and job prospects for the next few years.

And finally to add (and I really think I should have this as my signature at this stage) : There are little or no jobs in teaching in any subject at the moment or for the foreseeable future.

Choclolate

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I'm sorry, but the increasing frequency at which I'm seeing posts of this nature on this forum enrages me.

What makes you think that you can take an extreme shortcut to gaining a qualification in a subject by doing a short course or a quick competency exam when everyone else who holds the qualification had to spend 3-4 years studying for a degree in the subject????

Like everyone else has said here, if you want another subject for teaching purposes, either do another degree or find out what modules you need to take in your chosen subject from the TC and go and do them with a university in Ireland or through Open University.

Add that to the 6-7k cost of the PGDE and consider very carefully your career plans and job prospects for the next few years.

And finally to add (and I really think I should have this as my signature at this stage) : There are little or no jobs in teaching in any subject at the moment or for the foreseeable future.

I dont need a shortcut as I have an engineering degree which qualifies me to teach maths and applied maths. If I want to teach another subject such as French, then yes I should do a degree.

If want to teach engineering, Tech Drawing, Physics etc I have enough knowledge already not to necessitate another degree. I would have the required knowedge in a few months.

Its called common sense and the application of.

Yes there are rules, but someone makes the rules and they should be discussed and changed if incorrect.

I assume your problem is poeple entering teaching with private industry experience and that they feel they should get some credit for there past working experience. Maybe Maybe not.

But I do think common sense says that a person who is working as a structural engineer for 20 years, designing bridges etc doesn not need a 4 year degree to bring them "up" to Leaving Cert Physics standard.

Although people like you want to build the walls around teaching as high as possible.

rainbowtrout

Choclolate wrote: »

I dont need a shortcut as I have an engineering degree which qualifies me to teach maths and applied maths. If I want to teach another subject such as French, then yes I should do a degree.

If want to teach engineering, Tech Drawing, Physics etc I have enough knowledge already not to necessitate another degree. I would have the required knowedge in a few months.

Its called common sense and the application of.

Yes there are rules, but someone makes the rules and they should be discussed and changed if incorrect.

I assume your problem is poeple entering teaching with private industry experience and that they feel they should get some credit for there past working experience. Maybe Maybe not.

But I do think common sense says that a person who is working as a structural engineer for 20 years, designing bridges etc doesn not need a 4 year degree to bring them "up" to Leaving Cert Physics standard.

Although people like you want to build the walls around teaching as high as possible.

No, I'm not referring to people in private industry at all. I didn't say a word about people in private industry, you decided incorrectly to lay that allegation at my door.

Because a person spent 20 years designing bridges does not mean they have any knowledge of Nuclear Physics as an example which I would reckon would need to have been a module in a physics degree which is recognised by the TC. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples, however Physics is not one of the subjects I am qualified in so I would not like to hazard a guess at the topics on the syllabus. Having just had a look at the course outline for your degree I don't see nuclear physics or modern physics in there at all.

Teaching LC in any subject is not just about knowing the specific material that is on the LC syllabus. A teacher should know that topic in far greater depth than a student, hence the degree.


Nor should you be making a personal attack on 'people like me'. Don't cast aspersions on me, make a point about my post if you want but not me personally.

Choclolate

Hardly a personal attack.

Anyway - you must admit that a 4 year Phsics degree is not required for a structural engineer to teach LC Pysics.

They obvioulsy have the basics already.

I have a maths degree, none of which relate to LC Maths. We all know how college works.

awny

Choclolate wrote: »

Hardly a personal attack.

Anyway - you must admit that a 4 year Phsics degree is not required for a structural engineer to teach LC Pysics.

They obvioulsy have the basics already.

I have a maths degree, none of which relate to LC Maths. We all know how college works.

I think you are missing RainbowTrout's point. With my Maths degree, I could work in the financial sector with the banks etc, but just because I worked in the financial sector doesnt automatically mean I would be qualified to teach leaving cert Business, Economics or Accounting etc.

Similarly, because you have worked as a structural engineer for a number of years doesnt mean you should automatically have the knowledge to teach L.C Physics.

dory

Chocolate, this is your 15th thread in the teaching forum. In all those threads we have tried to give you help and advice and you have constantly insulted teaching as a career in response. I really think it's time you leave it be. You know what you need to know, now go enjoy being a teacher. :rolleyes: