Path or track from Kilmashogue Lane to Tibradden Lane - Kelly's Glen

SerialComplaint

Hi folks

Is anyone aware of a path or track between Kilmashogue Lane and Tibradden Lane? See http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.2505&lon=-6.2753&zoom=14&layers=M&relation=180640 for the area in question.

Page 86/87 of the Rathfarnham Roads book has lots of detail about Kelly's Glen and even mentions Kelly's Lane leading to one of the two bridges across the river. I've been out that way, and I couldn't see any obvious path or track to or from the bridges.

Does anyone know the location of the bridges and how to approach them? It would be nice to have a route that goes across from Tibradden Lane to Kilmashogue Lane.

recedite

You will need better maps, Kellys Lane is marked on the eastwest mapping one. That area is mostly private forestry now, and they don't like strangers round them thar parts. You could try cutting through Larch Hill scout grounds, lower down.
Bridges get washed away periodically. Round there they wouldn't get replaced.

hibby

From "The Neighbourhood of Dublin" by Weston St.John Joyce:
http://www.chaptersofdublin.com/books/Neighbourhood/chapter10.html

After passing the larch plantation, the road ascends very steeply, and in consequence of sweeping to the eastward the view of the Dublin plain is cut off by the upper part of the mountain. Almost directly in front is the Two-Rock Mountain, the summit of which is marked by the pointed carn known as "Fairy Castle," and to the left, but at a lower elevation, the familiar forms of the Three Rocks will be observed. The road here becomes little more than a bridle track along the side of the mountain, and almost at its highest point is closed by a wooden gateway, which, however, presents no obstacle to the pedestrian. A short distance beyond this point is a lane known as "Kelly's Lane", leading down to a small slated house almost at the bottom of the valley, and at the opposite bank of the stream beside the bridge, is a chalybeate spa that enjoyed a considerable share of popularity among the Dublin folk about 150 years ago. It will easily be identified by the reddish-yellow deposit with which it is surrounded. All this valley between Kilmashogue and Tibradden is called Kelly's Glen, [...]

Now, this suggests that the top of Kelly's Lane was at a point on Kilmashogue Lane after it turns eastward (i.e. turns to the left), and near its highest point. (Also after you pass through a wooden gate, but that information is 90 years old and may be well out-of-date!)

IrlJidel

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Hi folks

Is anyone aware of a path or track between Kilmashogue Lane and Tibradden Lane? See http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.2505&lon=-6.2753&zoom=14&layers=M&relation=180640 for the area in question.

Page 86/87 of the Rathfarnham Roads book has lots of detail about Kelly's Glen and even mentions Kelly's Lane leading to one of the two bridges across the river. I've been out that way, and I couldn't see any obvious path or track to or from the bridges.

Does anyone know the location of the bridges and how to approach them? It would be nice to have a route that goes across from Tibradden Lane to Kilmashogue Lane.

You can see Kelly's Lane on the OSI site on their historical maps:
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,715518,722958,7

hibby

Check out the Dublin Mountains Way map 2: http://www.dublinmountains.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/dmwmap2_hellfire_threerock.pdf

This is probably based on East-West mapping. The most likely candidate for Kelly's Lane (based on Joyce's description above) is the lane that runs south from the end of the public road. If you go up there you'll see 3 farm gates (all closed), and it's clear you will be entering private property if you pass any of the 3 gates.

I've driven up there once because I would quite like to go to the summit of Kilmashogue, just for completeness, and I have toyed with the idea of trying to contact the owner for permission.

recedite

Yes, I see the "chalybeate spa" on the map; a quick google search reveals the definition; iron rich water; so it must be something like the brown water in a car radiator, only freezing cold. I wonder why the spa is not so popular nowadays?

hibby

IrlJidel wrote: »

You can see Kelly's Lane on the OSI site on their historical maps:
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,715518,722958,7

Yes you can! What a fantastic resource - I never knew this existed! I remember seeing those old 25" maps when I was a child, showing all the townland names and property boundaries.

The two bridges in question are presumably the one at the end of Kelly's Lane (where it says "Spa Well (Chalybeate)") and just upstream, where the other track crosses the stream.

SerialComplaint

Many thanks for all the responses, and particularly to IrlJidel for the OSI link.

Recedite - The bridges are listed on the latest DLRCoCo register of protected sites, so I'm reasonably confident they still exist.

Hibby/Recedite - I'm probably missing something obvious, but I don't see the Chalybeate spa marked on the OSI map. Where exactly is this?

Having seen the location of definitely one, and probably two bridges, I'm not optimistic about finding a path through to Tibradden Lane, as there are 2-3 other tributaries of the river in between. However, I might be able to follow the track east of Tibradden/Pine Forest, which looks like it comes down onto the R116. Obviously, I'd be crossing some private property, but I didn't see any explicit 'no entry' signs on the gates at the top of Kilmashogue Lane. So I might just give it a shot and see what I can find.

IrlJidel

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Many thanks for all the responses, and particularly to IrlJidel for the OSI link.

Recedite - The bridges are listed on the latest DLRCoCo register of protected sites, so I'm reasonably confident they still exist.

Upper Bridge is probably here: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.244572,-6.266008&spn=0.000385,0.001206&t=h&z=20
Lower is here: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.244064,-6.269115&spn=0.000385,0.001206&t=h&z=20

Chapters of Dublin mentions they both have inscriptions:

http://www.chaptersofdublin.com/books/Neighbourhood/chapter10.html

"The stream is spanned by two bridges, erected by a proprietor named Caldbeck about the middle of the last century, one bearing the inscription "De la Sophannie, 1850," and the other "A suore amabile" - said to have been intended as memorials to his deceased sister."

Images of the bridges are available here:

http://www.southdublinimages.ie/search.aspx?subject=18

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Hibby/Recedite - I'm probably missing something obvious, but I don't see the Chalybeate spa marked on the OSI map. Where exactly is this?

Having seen the location of definitely one, and probably two bridges, I'm not optimistic about finding a path through to Tibradden Lane, as there are 2-3 other tributaries of the river in between. However, I might be able to follow the track east of Tibradden/Pine Forest, which looks like it comes down onto the R116. Obviously, I'd be crossing some private property, but I didn't see any explicit 'no entry' signs on the gates at the top of Kilmashogue Lane. So I might just give it a shot and see what I can find.

Change your 'Preview Map Series" to Historic 25".

If you are donning camoflage and exploring the area can you record some gps traces of Kelly's lane and locations of the bridges and wells? I can use your data to add them to Openstreetmap.

SerialComplaint

IrlJidel wrote: »

Change your 'Preview Map Series" to Historic 25".

Brilliant, thanks. Fascinating stuff there all right.

IrlJidel wrote: »

If you are donning camoflage and exploring the area can you record some gps traces of Kelly's lane and locations of the bridges and wells? I can use your data to add them to Openstreetmap.

I'll do my best, though my recent attempt to record a trace using the iMapMyRide app didn't work very well. Instead of an exciting loop through the Pine Forest, it recorded a short loop through a local housing estate, i.e. the first 200m and last 200m of my route!

recedite

...the precipitous little gorge through which the stream runs at the bottom, was supposed by Gabriel Beranger to have been caused by an earthquake, to which agency he also attributed the displacement of the top stone of Mount Venus cromlech. The stream is spanned by two bridges, erected by a proprietor named Caldbeck about the middle of the last century, one bearing the inscription "De la Sophannie, 1850," and the other "A suore amabile" - said to have been intended as memorials to his deceased sister...

The bridges shown in the pics look surprisingly substantial. Let us know how you get on, if you go.

BTW the toppled cromlech mentioned is easily accessed now, by driving into the carpark (about 10 am to 4.30 pm) of the new DSPCA buildings on Mt Venus road. Walk up some steps just opposite the reception office, you will see the monolith.

Dr Rutty himself took this water for three seasons, and gives a detailed account of the beneficial effects he experienced from it. For some years it was brought to the city daily, and the house adjoining the spa is said to have been originally built to accommodate visitors desirous of staving there to take the water.

Might be worth filling up the water bottle there!

gavinoontheweb

I'm aware I'm about half a decade late to this discussion but can anybody confirm the existence of a pathway from Kilmashogue to Tibradden thus making a route from Kippure to Kilmashogue possible?

dogmatix

The only way to get to Tibradden from Kilmashouge (that I know of) is via a track at the top of the lane that connects with the wicklow way. This is marked as a right of way on DLRCC maps. However I have not walked this track in about 4 years and last time I did it was dangerous due to the state it was left in by coillte after tree felling in the area at the time.

The “blue footprints“ indicate right of way. But many of the trails in and around kilmashogue may be long overgrown or impassable due to coillte clearance methods. Also, as far as I’m aware there is no legal definition of “rights of way” in Ireland so you might be challenged by a landowner.

https://dlrcocouncil.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=1dd5eacc9af24f4f8b2cd30ebb54a4c3

It would probably be quicker just to walk the wicklow way from kilmashogue lane.