Pump Action or O/U

beanie10

Hi lads, looking for a second hand shotgun with a budget of €400. I dont know wheather to go for a pump action or o/u. I liked the feel of the Mossberg pump action. Does anyone have one if so what do you make of them, is there a better one for under €400 second hand, also which is better pump or o/u for clays and magpies.
Thanks guys.

ferrete

if ul be using i for clays aswel i advise a o/u

beanie10

It will be mostly hunting, clays maybe 3 or 4 occasion in the year

fodda

Brand new Remington 870 pump action is 495.00 at www.islandsports.ie in castlebar 087 2435460

Tried and tested pump action used extensively by law, military and public in USA and around the world, lots of spares and accessories avaliable everywhere and cheap also.

clivej

I had the Mossberg pump but couldn't get on with it so I sold it on. I now have, next week, a Beretta semi-auto.
My son has bought a Mossberg pump @€;150 but is waiting for the license to come back, that's 6 months now.

I was told of a well used Beretta urika 391 semi-auto @€;450 if you are looking for one, far far better than the mossberg pump IMO.
I know stakelums in thurles has a mossy in the rack.

FISMA

Beanie10,
If this is your first shotgun, you are doing fine.

The Mossberg (500?) is a no frills, beat the cr@p out of, workhorse. I have one and love it. It is a great field gun. I would never want to put a fine Italian auto through the punishment that my Mosseberg gets in the field and off of boats.

Also, when you have a beautiful firearm in the field, you tend to worry about getting a nick on the stock. You don't want to forage through the brambles or rest it on an auld stone. Not to mention the occasional drop in the bog:mad:.

The pump will be a bit of a handicap, especially on skeet. However, I do fine with them on trap or skeet.

An o/u is fine as well, but you only have two shots.

Have you considered an auto? Probably the best all around gun to go with. Also, a great starter gun. Once you learn to shoot it well and it becomes too easy, then you may, as I have, go back to the pump actions for a bit more sport. Once you have the knack of the pump action - try a bolt action shotgun! That will get you ready for the field.

Also, the sound of pumping the action is one of the greatest psychological deterrents out there and why many police departments across the world use them. Just rack a pump action once and you will know what I talking about.

As the local mod will soon note, in Ireland there's no need to use a firearm as a weapon, since the local Gardai will rush to the scene and save you. Hence, I am not implying that a firearm be used in self defence, just that the sound of racking one is a psychological deterrent.

My choice in good value inexpensive firearms
pump - Remington 870
Autos - CZ 712, Rem 1100, Rem 1187
O/U - Baikal IZH27 or the like

Mr.Woodcock

Dont want to burst the bubble but some clay grounds say they dont like pumps, also with most semi's for the feild they wont cycle anything under 28g's, but on that note lanber vics seconad hand are around 350-400e, father has the the delux model and has never looked back!!

J.R.

beanie10 wrote: »

Hi lads, looking for a second hand shotgun with a budget of €400. I dont know wheather to go for a pump action or o/u. I liked the feel of the Mossberg pump action. Does anyone have one if so what do you make of them, is there a better one for under €400 second hand, also which is better pump or o/u for clays and magpies.
Thanks guys.

I'm not sure if you have experience handling shotguns or if this purchase is to be your first shotgun. If it's your first shotgun I'd recommend an O/U game model & not a sporter......the reason being mainly for safety reasons until you become accustomed to & well able to handle a shotgun.

My first gun was a Lamber O/U game (3 years),
then a Remington 870 Wingmaster pump action (25 years)
and I now have a Benelli semi auto and a Bettinsoli O/U sporter.

I could not fault the pump action or semi-auto (in fact the semi auto is my favourite gun to use...use O/U only for clays) but for a first gun I think an O/U games is safest.

With a pump, semi auto & O/U sporter when you push the safety to the off (fire) position it remains there until manually returned to the safe position by the shooter. This can easily be forgotton by a newcomer learning the sport who is trying to concentrate on the shot and reloading. With a game O/U the safety returns to the safe position as soon as the gun is opened.

When an O/U is broken (open) its easy to see the gun is empty....semi-auto & pump not as easy or obvious unless the breech is pulled back in the open position.

When unloading the gun it's much easier to see that all cartridges have been removed in an O/U........must check carefully with a semi-auto & pump that all cartridges have been removed from chamber & magazine tube.

All of above come naturally to experienced shooters whicch make a pump or semi-auto as safe as any other gun (any gun is only as safe as the person using it!) but for a newcomer learning I think the O/U game model is the least complicated and the easiest to learn the correct safety procedure. Move on to a semi-auto or pump when experience has been gained with an O/U.

J.R.

Mr.Woodcock wrote: »

Dont want to burst the bubble but some clay grounds say they dont like pumps, QUOTE]

______________________________________________________


Correct - a lot don't like semi-auto's either.....that's why I bought an O/U as my second shotgun.

I can't say I blame them.

Having owned a pump I can definitely say that the are not the most suitable gun for clays & I could pump and fire as quick as any semi or O/U.

I was at a flapper shoot once and a guy firing with a semi-auto at doubles hit the first, missed the second clay and then fired another shot at the second clay!!!.........he had three shots in the gun on the line.......needless to say we packed up & headed off after complaining.

For range officers & in the interest of safety, especially with so many guns around, many whom may be complete strangers, I can see why they prefer O/U as its easy to see they're empty when broken open.

Mr.Woodcock

Its true an o/u game is a good first gun because its simplistic, but the lad said he wanted to shoot clays and if u but 50 cartritdges true a game gun in under an hour your in for sore sholder, a semi-game on the other hand wont give this problem, also the lad didnt say he was shooting competions, just 3 or 4 times a year. a good semi will do all he wants and wont break the bank!!!

Spunk84

I started off with a mossberg pump, My opinion is if it works for you then use it;)

blackstairsboy

I never had a pump or semi-automatic shotgun but if you are using it mainly for hunting I would imagine it would be really annoying emptying it at each gate or ditch. Also it would not be possible to check barrels for obstructions etc. I know lads that had them and got rid of them for that reason. From a purely safety point of view I would opt for the under and over. At the end of the day it is down to you and what you will enjoy using.;)

Grizzly 45

Born and bred with pumps and semis.I have a Mossberg 500 and wouldnt trade it in for nothing![Well maybe a Milspec 590 pump:D].
They are exellent guns for any kind of shooting,cheap and cheerful will eat ammo other semis will choke on.
You can get a plethora of different barrels for them,everything from cylinder bore slug barrels,to 38in goose barrels,which take 20 secs to change around[try that with an O/U].Stocks and forends in all configs and reasonable enough too.In other words this can be "Barbieified" anyway you want.Only fault I find with them is.plastic trigger group housing,very early models have been known to break in extreme cold,keep a spare one .
Saftey switch,replace with steel switch,factory one is plastic. mag length is either 6 or 8 shot restricted lic or 3 unrestricted.remmy it can be extended to ten plus if needed.

Saftey,well once you understand the mechanism and the technique to shoot with this gun.It is as safe as any DBBL out there.Once the shell is out of the chamber and the slide racked fully back with the saftey on.It CANNOT fire or load another round from the mag.Ditto for Autos as well.
As the battery is blocking totally the trigger mechanism.So there is no need to totally empty the gun every time you cross a ditch etc.If you really want to be belt&braces.Learn to speed load,you can load three shots in three seconds once you get it right.

Clay grounds not liking them,two things,ignorance and snobbery.
Ignorance of the saftey features of either firearms by ROs or other shooters ,or just plain looking down noses at this "confounded gangste r gun".Last time I shot with mine at cock&hen with a cylinder bore 24in barrel,people complimented me on how fast I could use it.They thought it was a semi auto.[Only time I've won anything recently too in prizes.:o]

Some lads shoot them very oddly as well here.Proably another reason they arent liked.They fire a shot,dismount the gun and pump it,then remount and shoot again.Totally wrong!:eek:
You stay mounted and work the slide to eject and reload.

In the end ,it is up to you.If the gun fits and you dont mind the "image":rolleyes:.They are a fine gun that will in the right hands hold with any DBBL man in the land.

beanie10

Ive decide to go for pump action over o/u. I appreciate the safety aspect of the o/u but i have a rifle so i know how to handle a loaded magazine. Ive narrowed it down to the Mossberg or Remington 870. The Remington 870 looks good and a good price for a new gun. I dont think the mossberg has a choke.

beanie10

blackstairsboy wrote: »

I never had a pump or semi-automatic shotgun but if you are using it mainly for hunting I would imagine it would be really annoying emptying it at each gate or ditch. Also it would not be possible to check barrels for obstructions etc. I know lads that had them and got rid of them for that reason. From a purely safety point of view I would opt for the under and over. At the end of the day it is down to you and what you will enjoy using.;)

Why do you have to empty them at each ditch or gate.

clivej

beanie10 wrote: »

Why do you have to empty them at each ditch or gate.

Because if the gun is loaded and as usual is then rested against the gate post or fence wire it can fall over and discharge
Many people have beed hurt or killed this way and it is now common practice to unload before crossing a fence or climbing over a gate.

This applies to rifles as well as shotguns.

As was said above with a pump or semi you cannot see if there are rounds still in the chamber or mag to easy.

fodda

clivej wrote: »

Because if the gun is loaded and as usual is then rested against the gate post or fence wire it can fall over and discharge
Many people have beed hurt or killed this way and it is now common practice to unload before crossing a fence or climbing over a gate.

This applies to rifles as well as shotguns.

As was said above with a pump or semi you cannot see if there are rounds still in the chamber or mag to easy.

Clive is correct with this as i once climbed over a gate covered in green slippey moss and slipped off falling on my then o/u which luckily i had emptied and closed but the bang on the floor could have sent it off

I agree with Grizzly to go with a pump action which is the safest to you as it is the only one which cant fire twice without you reloading it.

Tackleberrywho

clivej wrote: »

Because if the gun is loaded and as usual is then rested against the gate post or fence wire it can fall over and discharge
Many people have beed hurt or killed this way and it is now common practice to unload before crossing a fence or climbing over a gate.

This applies to rifles as well as shotguns.

As was said above with a pump or semi you cannot see if there are rounds still in the chamber or mag to easy.

It's fairly obvious on my Remmy when shells are in tube or chamber, Although I would prefer safety on the Tumb position of the stock

Grizzly 45

clivej wrote: »

Because if the gun is loaded and as usual is then rested against the gate post or fence wire it can fall over and discharge
Many people have beed hurt or killed this way and it is now common practice to unload before crossing a fence or climbing over a gate.

This applies to rifles as well as shotguns.

As was said above with a pump or semi you cannot see if there are rounds still in the chamber or mag to easy.

It takes a much effort to rack back the slide or bolt on a pump or semi and remove the shell as it does to break a DBBL,and remove two shells.:)
In that condition it shouldnt have a round in the chamber or on the lifter,but even if it did,it would take a concious manual action by the shooter on a pump to chamber a round.So even if it fell over with the slide back and a shell in the chamber all it will do is fall over and proably jam the shell in the lifter mechanism.

The thing to remember with pumps or semis is.INTERRUPT the feed of shells,and JAM the mechanism.Once the slide is back on a pump and the shell removed,it requires a "double pump" IE work the mechanism twice to chamber a shell.

On a semi it requires a shell to be placed in the chamber before anything happens.So with the shell out,if the gun fell over and unless it manages to hit the slide release button it still wont chamber a round.
By and large when you understand how these guns work,they are as safe as any other gun.There is no great sicence to them.

@Beanie,Yes Mossberg do a selectible choke barrel as well.They[Mossberg] actually make barrels for Remington. The Remmy is a fine gun too,I'm just not a fan of where the saftey is on them,prefer top mounted like the Mberg,and find them somwhat heavier in their weight and mechanism,but thats just me.
Best of luck with it.You wont need to buy many more shotguns after this,just buy different barrells for different shooting styles,along with all sorts of bits and pieces to make the gun really "you":D

garv123

J.R. wrote: »

I'm not sure if you have experience handling shotguns or if this purchase is to be your first shotgun. If it's your first shotgun I'd recommend an O/U game model & not a sporter......the reason being mainly for safety reasons until you become accustomed to & well able to handle a shotgun.


With a pump, semi auto & O/U sporter when you push the safety to the off (fire) position it remains there until manually returned to the safe position by the shooter. This can easily be forgotton by a newcomer learning the sport who is trying to concentrate on the shot and reloading. With a game O/U the safety returns to the safe position as soon as the gun is opened.

i personally wouldn't like this if it was my first gun, i like to get into a habit of firing reloading and safety back on, on a rifle and similar on a shotgun. fire and then switch back the safety. it the gun did this itself for me when i opened it id get into the habit of not switching it back on because its going to do it itself, and then when i change guns i'd be at more of a risk of forgetting to do put it back on because of the habit I've built up