External Insulation

kbfdirect

HI, Has anyone got an external insulation job done recently.I do not know much about this.Is there is different quality finishes? Also can someone recommend a company and a price guide. Regards David r

bruschi

kbfdirect wrote: »

HI, Has anyone got an external insulation job done recently.I do not know much about this.Is there is different quality finishes? Also can someone recommend a company and a price guide. Regards David r

depending on the product, it can be anywhere form €90-115/m2 (square meterage is based on the wall area, not the floor plan area). where are you based?

kbfdirect

HI, I'm in Cork and have a bungalow.I will measure the walls and get back to you.Regards David r

MicktheMan

kbfdirect wrote: »

HI, Has anyone got an external insulation job done recently.I do not know much about this.Is there is different quality finishes? Also can someone recommend a company and a price guide. Regards David r

Unfortunately, neither do a lot of the SEAI/NSAI registered contractors:(

kbfdirect wrote: »

HI, I'm in Cork and have a bungalow.I will measure the walls and get back to you.Regards David r

In my experience a lot of the ewi contractors do not quote to remove the soffit and bring the ewi up to meet the roof insulation. This, imo, is a very important detail, as not doing this will leave a very long thermal bridge all way round the top of your external walls and this then greatly negates the insulation effectiveness. This is especially true in bungalows where the ratio of soffit lenght to external wall area in greater than that of a 2 storey dwelling.

kbfdirect

Thanks for that Mick.

brendankelly

You are the Man Mick

brendankelly

These systems do not suit old single leaf walls and many people believe they will harm the building over time because the prevent the building from breathing.

There is a pilot project in Tipp (stopped for the winter) where by 6 inches of Hemp/Lime is put externally and lime plaster finish. This system would be ideal for IE Stone buildings.

tsoparno

brendankelly wrote: »

These systems do not suit old single leaf walls and many people believe they will harm the building over time because the prevent the building from breathing.

There is a pilot project in Tipp (stopped for the winter) where by 6 inches of Hemp/Lime is put externally and lime plaster finish. This system would be ideal for IE Stone buildings.

not quiet sure what you mean by single leaf walls do you mean mass concrete no cavity walls

therightangle

There is a pilot project in Tipp (stopped for the winter) where by 6 inches of Hemp/Lime is put externally and lime plaster finish. This system would be ideal for IE Stone buildings.

How is that project progressing/looking?
Can it be certified for Building Regulations/Mortgage Approval/newbuild?

pria

Once the external insulation has been applied, Is there an independant inspection before the payment of work has been handed over?? Should the 'buyer be ware'?? A lot of money if there is no inspection - meeting regulations <SNIP>



Mod edit: Please stay on topic and do not reference the issue again as the matter is before the courts. Thanks.

BryanF

I'm afraid its

pria wrote: »

the 'buyer beware'

unless you employ a professional (arch or building surveyor) to provide an opinion but even at that, how do they know its been installed correctly? - I would recommend their input is more important at the tender stage, as they will improve the chances of a repeatable contractor and EWI system being used.

padraig91

pria wrote: »

Once the external insulation has been applied, Is there an independant inspection before the payment of work has been handed over?? Should the 'buyer be ware'?? A lot of money if there is no inspection - meeting regulations <SNIP>



Mod edit: Please stay on topic and do not reference the issue again as the matter is before the courts. Thanks.

Just wondering Muffler what is a matter for the courts? is it brenadankelly's project?

muffler

padraig91 wrote: »

Just wondering Muffler what is a matter for the courts? is it brenadankelly's project?

Nothing to concern yourself with.

Back on topic please.

Shinerson

I'm planning on externally insulating an old stone house would hemp and lime be better than ewi? 

BryanF

that depends on what you mean by ewi. External Wall Insulation (EWI) has many different products and weather proofing systems. If you read through this thread, the advice is - any homes that were built prior to cavity wall construction (circa pre 80's with exceptions) may not be suitable for conventional EWI

To answer your question - where you have an old stone wall use materials that allow your wall to continue to breathe (the same principle applies in timber frame, its just they require a Vapour barrier on the inside to reduce the amount of Vapour the structure absorbs)

just a few of the options:

• hemp-lime with lime render
• mineral wool with lime render
• or mineral wool with a rain-screen cladding

Old stone walls were built with their Hygroscopic properties in mind. This is often referred to as 'able to breathe', this was due to the readily available materials like lime mortar/cob/earth & cow sh!t (Breathability doesn't mean ventilation giving fresh air.. Just that the walls can absorb, realise and regulate a greater % of internal moisture (RH) than modern concrete construction). That's why these old wall have a history of lime washing as a finish. If you think about it, everyone lived in such homes until the invention of cement which was not wide spread until the 30's maybe even 50's in some rural areas.

hemplime:
building owners experiences/ comments did include ‘it takes a while to dryout’ and there is ‘a lime smell during that time’ but really is that the worst thing when we consider the unknown health and lifespan implications of many man-made materials.

There are a number of factors to be addressed regarding moisture. Firstly good ventilation and some constant heating is required to dry-out the material which does take longer to dry than cement render (Partially due to increased thickness but also due to the properties of lime). this should not a problem unless you are getting the hemplime plaster installed internally and/or living in the property during the renovation.

It needs the right installed constancy to dry and cure correctly. this is hampered by a lack of skilled trades people and certification of products in Ireland but there are some good contractors familiar with its use and if required a UK product with certification.

Much of its negative publicity as regards moisture appears to have been in a few new homes (a certain 'eco' village comes to mind) where the external conditions caused the monolithic hemp-lime walls drying inwards (I'm sure that's not the only reason, just one that I've been given). A bit more transparency is require with post occupancy in all building projects not just with hemplime!. Also external conditions may not have been favourable to drying out process. Which could be argued is no different to cement based products in cold weather or exposed untreated timber for example.

I’m still of the opinion that hemplime is a better solution than dry-lining or ewi in old buildings unless the money is spent ensuring that system is breathable

hope this helps

Shinerson

Iv decided to go with a breathable insulation. I went to the village you mentioned the word there is that it was due to bad workmanship, but the hemp producers and suppliers etc. are planning to redo one of the houses in the spring. Do you know of any other examples of hemp and lime insulation that I can view? 

sultanson

BryanF wrote: »

I'm afraid its

unless you employ a professional (arch or building surveyor) to provide an opinion but even at that, how do they know its been installed correctly? - I would recommend their input is more important at the tender stage, as they will improve the chances of a repeatable contractor and EWI system being used.

Hi Bryanf.. I have a stone building and am looking for an external insulation. I looked at the rendering in this village you wrote about and to put it mildly I am not impressed. Why are there brown stains on the render and is this normal????

BryanF

sultanson wrote: »

Hi Bryanf.. I have a stone building and am looking for an external insulation. I looked at the rendering in this village you wrote about and to put it mildly I am not impressed. Why are there brown stains on the render and is this normal????

i don't know? would you like to get a professional to view your building?

BryanF wrote: »

I'm afraid its unless you employ a professional (arch or building surveyor) to provide an opinion but even at that...

Hemplime? breathable EWI with rain-screen cladding? do you want to give us some more info?

Gobo Fraggle

BryanF wrote: »

i don't know? would you like to get a professional to view your building?

I would like a pro to view my building. Can you provide a registered list / link of these professionals.

BryanF

Gobo Fraggle wrote: »

I would like a pro to view my building. Can you provide a registered list / link of these professionals.

the SEAI provide a register of installers but they do little to ensure quality , imo your are best to go with one of the European manufacturers who have a reputable history, and use their list of local installers- this allow you to ask what guarantees are provided from both.

as regards professional input there is a list of conservation architects provide by the RIAI and depending on where in the country you are you will find local arch techs & engineers who have specified work of this nature, using local tradesmen. if you would like to give an idea of where your based maybe some boards.ie users can advise further on local examples and suitable consultants

sultanson

Hi Bryanf.
I would expect that because of the high profile of the ECO Village that all works would be signed off on properly and scaffolding would not be taken down before work was signed off on. I am not an expert but the rendering there does not look right to me. I would not like to see brown patches on my house. I could be very wrong because I am not an expert.

BryanF

sultanson wrote: »

Hi Bryanf.
I would expect that because of the high profile of the ECO Village that all works would be signed off on properly and scaffolding would not be taken down before work was signed off on. I am not an expert but the rendering there does not look right to me. I would not like to see brown patches on my house. I could be very wrong because I am not an expert.

highprofile yes, and i fully respect what the organiser s have done there. but do note (as i understand it) that each plot was sold to a selbuilder and it was up to each individual to build their home. there are bad EWI jobs all over the country, there are crap plaster jobs done al over the country where you can see visible block lines, there are ineffectient hard to heat new homes etc etc. I've no connection to the eco village, but if you like we can speculate all day as to the causes of esentially poor spec & workmanship. one thing is for sure neither regular ewi or hemplime etc is an inappropriate building type - its who,what & how they were applied will have been the problem. if you're referring to the hemp lime - I have be told that there are some happy and some not so happy self-builders - i wonder was a short cut in labour or specification taken or inferior products installed. there are BBA certified products that were used elsewhere supervised by eng/arch's with experienced trades involved who have not had problems.

sultanson

Hi Bryanf, Thanks for the PM. I live in a little village and the guy you suggested favours the stone cottage look. This is not for me. The photo below was taken in the village and while the render work is not for me I did notice that the tops of the windows are straight. Do you know of anywhere I can see straight corners on a lime render that is not covered with brown patches.


21.JPG

Smithers1

muffler wrote: »

Nothing to concern yourself with.

Back on topic please.

I'm new to Boards Moderator, but I thought such patronising responses were a thing of the past! The rules on etiquette for the sight impressed me, but your response does not. Of course it's of concern to the poster; there is a topic being pursued and then it appears that something has been removed without explanation - it's like a response from some Soviet Monitor who believes they don't have to answer to anyone. You can surely make some reference to the event rather than "nothing to concern yourself with"!

sultanson

Smithers1 wrote: »

I'm new to Boards Moderator, but I thought such patronising responses were a thing of the past! The rules on etiquette for the sight impressed me, but your response does not. Of course it's of concern to the poster; there is a topic being pursued and then it appears that something has been removed without explanation - it's like a response from some Soviet Monitor who believes they don't have to answer to anyone. You can surely make some reference to the event rather than "nothing to concern yourself with"!

I fully agree

Poor Uncle Tom

Keep posts on-topic please. Also, read the forum charter before posting again as questioning a moderators decision on-thread is against the forum charter. Infractions given.

Mellor

Smithers1 wrote: »

I'm new to Boards Moderator, but I thought such patronising responses were a thing of the past! The rules on etiquette for the sight impressed me, but your response does not. Of course it's of concern to the poster; there is a topic being pursued and then it appears that something has been removed without explanation - it's like a response from some Soviet Monitor who believes they don't have to answer to anyone. You can surely make some reference to the event rather than "nothing to concern yourself with"!

The matter is currently before the courts, so its agaisnt the rules to discuss it here.
It's as simpel as that. Do not drag this up again

Argo foc yourself

I am living in standard 4 bed semi. I got 2 walls pumped already. The back wall could not be done as it was built with 9 inch cavity blocks. I looking to get the external cladding done on this back wall only.

Any idea on price and recommendations. Want to get sills done etc