Census 2011 - How will the religion question be phrased ?

Rabidlamb

I'm trying to recollect the last time & I think there was a tick box thing with "non-religious" being one of the options.

I wonder if it will be broader this time to include those who believe in god but would rather not belong to any religion.

Maybe there should be a selection for those who were baptized but now wish to leave.
Do the CSO supply early drafts of the forms for public consultation ?.

eblistic

Supposedly they're keeping the question identical to last time which was:

What is your religion? 1. Roman Catholic, 2. Church of Ireland, 3. Presbyterian, 4. Methodist, 5. Islam, 6. Other (write in your RELIGION)..., 7. No Religion

Dades

Rabidlamb wrote: »

I wonder if it will be broader this time to include those who believe in god but would rather not belong to any religion.

I'd imagine "No Religion" would cover that. Whether or not the individual is some form of deist or whatnot isn't really relevant to purpose.

The important thing is that people show some balls and tick it.

Rabidlamb

Dades wrote: »

I'd imagine "No Religion" would cover that. Whether or not the individual is some form of deist or whatnot isn't really relevant to purpose.

The important thing is that people show some balls and tick it.

I 'd prefer a box for those stuck in the "Count me out" process.
Those who wish to leave formally but are denied a fulfilling conclusion.

drkpower

Rabidlamb wrote: »

I 'd prefer a box for those stuck in the "Count me out" process.
Those who wish to leave formally but are denied a fulfilling conclusion.

I'd like a box for those who prefer the poetry of Yeats over Milton......

Its the census; it is there to plan delivery of services for the future and such like. As Dades says, the main thing is that those who do not consider themselves to have a religon tick the box in that manner; regardless of whether you think you need to go through the 'CountmeOut' process.

As the religon question chiefly affects education policy, I would really like a Q. such as 'Do you favour secular or religous education?' which would be far better way of planning future education policy than a question 'what is yyour religon'. But the census has never been about preferences, it is about facts and demographics.

axer

I just hope people realise they should tick "no religion" rather than writing anything in if they are not religious - do not write in "atheist" or "agnostic" etc - pick "No Religion".

Dades

drkpower wrote: »

As the religon question chiefly affects education policy, I would really like a Q. such as 'Do you favour secular or religous education?' which would be far better way of planning future education policy than a question 'what is yyour religon'. But the census has never been about preferences, it is about facts and demographics.

Yeah, I said I'd like this before.

Unfortunately every category has relevant questions that go with the stat questions and it simply isn't practical to include them. Just because education and religion is our sore point, doesn't justify us our own "poll".

PeterIanStaker

Dades wrote: »

I'd imagine "No Religion" would cover that. Whether or not the individual is some form of deist or whatnot isn't really relevant to purpose.

The important thing is that people show some balls and tick it.

the sad thing is that even very lapsed non believing people will tick a denomination out of habit.

Galvasean

axer wrote: »

I just hope people realise they should tick "no religion" rather than writing anything in if they are not religious - do not write in "atheist" or "agnostic" etc - pick "No Religion".

This. I shudder the thought of how many people have 'atheist' registered as a religion.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Galvasean wrote: »

This. I shudder the thought of how many people have 'atheist' registered as a religion.

I think at the last census there were a few hundred.

pH

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I think at the last census there were a few hundred.

Hope this link to the 2006 census works.

http://census.cso.ie/Census/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=74644

Of interest :

No religion 186,318
Atheist 929
Agnostic 1,515 (Wow - who'd have thunk it!)
Lapsed Roman Catholic 540 (Is that even a real religion?)

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

pH wrote: »

Hope this link to the 2006 census works.

http://census.cso.ie/Census/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=74644

Of interest :

No religion 186,318
Atheist 929
Agnostic 1,515 (Wow - who'd have thunk it!)
Lapsed Roman Catholic 540 (Is that even a real religion?)

No but neither are the two above it.

finlma

Are Atheist Ireland or any organisation going to do a bit of a push or advertising to encourage people to select the 'No Religion' option? Might help the push for secular education. Haven't been on here in a while so maybe somthing is already afoot.

ChocolateSauce

I predict that the number of people ticking the "Catholic" box will decline by a double digit figure.

Bets anyone?

Dades

finlma wrote: »

Are Atheist Ireland or any organisation going to do a bit of a push or advertising to encourage people to select the 'No Religion' option? Might help the push for secular education. Haven't been on here in a while so maybe somthing is already afoot.

There'd better be a facebook campaign or I'll start one myself.

Gotta get to those folks whose mammies think they can speak for their little heathen treasures, and get them to 'fess up.

antiskeptic

Galvasean wrote: »

I shudder the thought of how many people have 'atheist' registered as a religion.

The membership of Atheist Ireland sound like they're heading in that direction.

From the Teach Don't Preach blurb wrote:

To take a symbolic illustration of the difference, a religious school might have a crucifix on the classroom wall, an atheistic school might have a sign saying there is no god, and a secular school would have neither.

"There is no God" strikes me as a belief...

Dades

For a member of a religion, antiskeptic, its bemusing that you haven't grasped what a religion actually is.

robindch

antiskeptic wrote: »

"There is no God" strikes me as a belief

Here's a diagram. I really don't think that this can be made any simpler than this:

ShooterSF

robindch wrote: »

Here's a diagram. I really don't think that this can be made any simpler than this:

[image]

Image downloaded. Any chance of having that post pinned to the top of the forum though?

Suggested title:

Sticky: What are athiests and agnostics?(aside from baby eaters obviously)

Truley

I think people need to realise that the question isn't so much about gauging people's personal beliefs but more to do with the religious organisations people actively subscribe to. So whether you're agnostic, non-denominational deist, 'sort of spiritual,' believe in some Catholic stuff but don't support the church etc etc it isn't relevant from a political/policy point of view. You should tick 'no religion' if you don't support a religious institution.

There is quite a well publicised campaign on facebook and twitter, run by the British Athiest society, website here

magicbastarder

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I predict that the number of people ticking the "Catholic" box will decline by a double digit figure.

Bets anyone?

i.e. by a maximum of 99 people?

eblistic

Truley wrote: »

I think people need to realise that the question isn't so much about gauging people's personal beliefs but more to do with the religious organisations people actively subscribe to. So whether you're agnostic, non-denominational deist, 'sort of spiritual,' believe in some Catholic stuff but don't support the church etc etc it isn't relevant from a political/policy point of view. You should tick 'no religion' if you don't support a religious institution.

There is quite a well publicised campaign on facebook and twitter, run by the British Athiest society, website here

The Humanists will be doing some kind of awareness campaign. They don't have a huge amount of funds for publicity but, hopefully, they'll get a bit of airtime.

Pygmalion

magicbastarder wrote: »

i.e. by a maximum of 99 people?

I assume he meant the percentage would decrease by double digits.
i.e. a minimum of 10%

strobe

eblistic wrote: »

The Humanists will be doing some kind of awareness campaign. They don't have a huge amount of funds for publicity but, hopefully, they'll get a bit of airtime.

I just really really hope whatever kind of campaign is run by the HAI or AI or whoever else is done in the right way. I.E "Really think about whether or not you are a member of a religion and then fill in the census question to reflect the reality" rather than "Everyone tick 'no religion'!".

Dades

Yeah, it'll be important not to annoy people into ticking "Roman Catholic" by being to pushy when they're on the fence.

Are you listening, AI? :pac:

eblistic

I agree. Even though I trust both organisations to frame it as an awareness message to the non-religious, I guarantee you certain elements will claim it's an attempt at canvassing.

Galvasean

eblistic wrote: »

I agree. Even though I trust both organisations to frame it as an awareness message to the non-religious, I guarantee you certain elements will claim it's an attempt at canvassing.

David Quinn wrote:

Atheist Ireland's recent attack on democracy is just the latest example of the secular agenda in action.

*Not actual quote, but probably will be in the future.

ChocolateSauce

magicbastarder wrote: »

i.e. by a maximum of 99 people?

Woops, meant to say by a double digit percentage figure. ie 10% or more. Thanks for pointing out, I'd have missed that.

antiskeptic

robindch wrote: »

Here's a diagram. I really don't think that this can be made any simpler than this:

I'm not so sure. I know God exists but I don't claim that there's proof of that - there doesn't seem to be a category for me.

The AI statement appears to be 'gnostic atheism' in that they are making a positive claim about the atheist position "There is no God" but won't be able to support that with proof.

Which would appear to render that position a faith position. Additionally, being naturalists they cannot argue the faith to be other than blind.

Dades

antiskeptic wrote: »

The AI statement appears to be 'gnostic atheism' in that they are making a positive claim about the atheist position "There is no God" but won't be able to support that with proof.

How do you prove that something invisible, intangible, unsmellable etc does not exist? No more than you can prove unicorns don't exist. This position is simply a recognition of this reality.

antiskeptic wrote: »

Which would appear to render that position a faith position. Additionally, being naturalists they cannot argue the faith to be other than blind.

Faith is required to belief a positive (i.e. something does exist) without proof. To suggest that anything we lack a belief in requires 'faith' on our part is ludicrous.

checkyabadself

I`m looking forward to ticking no religion for the first time, "mammy" filled the form out the last time, I was 21 and didn`t care about the census at the time.

I`m going to buy a new pen for the occasion and might open a vintage bottle of scotch to mark the occasion.
It only dawned on me from reading threads about defection and countmeout that the church still counts you among its numbers even after declaring defection, so filling out no religion on the census is where I can ACTUALLY do my bit to remove the mandate the church and government have in teaching any future children of mine their particular dogma.

pinkypinky

http://www.atheist.ie/2011/01/be-honest-to-godless-in-the-irish-census-on-10-april/

This is going around Twitter.

Posy

pH wrote: »

No religion 186,318
Atheist 929
Agnostic 1,515 (Wow - who'd have thunk it!)
Lapsed Roman Catholic 540 (Is that even a real religion?)

That would be a good option on the census- because, like it or not (not, in my case) there are thousands of people who still call themselves 'catholic' even though they haven't been to mass since their confirmation.
I, like many others, don't consider myself a catholic but I officially am one I suppose because I'm not sure how to get out! :pac:
(Still won't be ticking 'catholic' on my form though!!)

Tin Foil Hat

Posy wrote: »

That would be a good option on the census- because, like it or not (not, in my case) there are thousands of people who still call themselves 'catholic' even though they haven't been to mass since their confirmation.
I, like many others, don't consider myself a catholic but I officially am one I suppose because I'm not sure how to get out! :pac:
(Still won't be ticking 'catholic' on my form though!!)

You are not a catholic just because your parents had some water poured on your head as baby.
If you don't believe what the catholic church want you to believe and you don't behave how the catholic church want you to behave then you are not a catholic. Simples! There is no such thing as a lapsed catholic.

Posy

True. It just irks me how many people still will tick the auld 'catholic' box in April.

I asked my mother what she'll be putting on the census and she looked at me like I'm mad and said "Uh.. Catholic of course." She hasn't been to mass for over 30 years, aargh! :rolleyes: