Micheal Woods Deal

Spacedog

This prick gave 250 euro of your money to the church, to let pedos off the hook.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0107/woodsm.html

Can I pop into the local branch of the church and ask for it back?

1.3 billion would come in handy about now when we are taking 5bn from the IMF 'overdraft account' at 9% interest

Seth Brundle

But one has to wonder if he also bought their silence?
I presume that the gardai and the Dept of Education are complicit in some of the cases (e.g. the Murphy report)

Biggins

kbannon wrote: »

But one has to wonder if he also bought their silence?

...Something like "you don't dig up dirt on us - we won't dig up dirt on you" you mean?
Wouldn't surprise me!

hotmail.com

Michael Woods is known to be one of the most "religious" TDs in the Dail in the last while. It's a shame he was the man negotiating the deal.

His lack of regret today is just disappointing. There's not much else to say.

On Newstalk he said he was "proud" of the deal.

ISAW

Spacedog wrote: »

This prick gave 250 euro of your money to the church, to let pedos off the hook.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0107/woodsm.html

Can I pop into the local branch of the church and ask for it back?

1.3 billion would come in handy about now when we are taking 5bn from the IMF 'overdraft account' at 9% interest

So you would prefer an enquiry like all the others that took years and years and produced nothing but bills and at the end of ten years half the people who could get compensation are dead?

ISAW

hotmail.com wrote: »

Michael Woods is known to be one of the most "religious" TDs in the Dail in the last while. It's a shame he was the man negotiating the deal.

His lack of regret today is just disappointing. There's not much else to day.

What is a "religious" TD?

i have to laugh on one hand people criticise politicians for not having morals and on the other they criticise them for being religious and following a moral code!

If you are refering to Catholic Church values such as not being in favour of abortion on demand I am sure you know memebrs iof the Labour Party for example are against abortion.
AS regards religious apparently Gerry Adams goes to mass I believe daily. does that make him very religious?

hotmail.com

ISAW wrote: »

What is a "religious" TD?

i have to laugh on one hand people criticise politicians for not having morals and on the other they criticise them for being religious and following a moral code!

If you are refering to Catholic Church values such as not being in favour of abortion on demand I am sure you know memebrs iof the Labour Party for example are against abortion.
AS regards religious apparently Gerry Adams goes to mass I believe daily. does that make him very religious?

That's why I put religious in italics. I agree completely, politicians attending mass, praying and saying they are religious is just a farce.

Sure Bertie is very religious as well.

Spacedog

There is a difference batween Morals and Ethics

to a religions person, it may be moral to save their Church 1.3 billion euro (and counting) by having the public foot the bill. if that won't get you into heaven, what will?

on the other hand, it is unethical to have innocent people pay the price for the these crimes. This agreement basically means every priest in Ireland can rape any kid they like and the tax payer pays the bill when they (rightly) sue for their torment and anguish. It is a licence for sexual abuse.

transylman

ISAW wrote: »

So you would prefer an enquiry like all the others that took years and years and produced nothing but bills and at the end of ten years half the people who could get compensation are dead?

You're saying that any time any organisation does wrong (even a company) the government should jump in to compensate the victims to avoid the possibility of a tribunal. No offence, but that attitude is a bit silly, to say the least.

It was a rotten deal, snuck in with minimal oversight right before an election, by a slimy $hitbag rumoured for years to have been a member of Opus Dei.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/my-faith-helped-to-save-church-abuse-deal-says-woods-495734.html

Profiler

ISAW wrote: »

So you would prefer an enquiry like all the others that took years and years and produced nothing but bills and at the end of ten years half the people who could get compensation are dead?

No, I would prefer the Church come clean about all of this and forget the consequences for them.

Forget about hiding pedophile Priest's from an Garda Siocahana, forget asking those Bishops who knew exactly what was was going on to be accountable for what they did, forget giving all those men and women victims as much closure as is possible at this point.

Lets instead allow the Church to run roughshod over truth, justice and forgiveness.

Let the Church keep it's property, it's Bishops and it's deviant priests, sure it's only a few thousand Irish people they harmed, there is millions more where they came from who can pay the bill.

Manach

Given that there was a fairly recent case where the Government refused to provide compensation on the grounds it was a headmaster not directly employed by then, then the state can hardly claim a moral high ground.

PeterIanStaker

This proves yet again that the Govt is morally bankrupt and still kowtows to the church like it's the 1950's. I'm sure David Quinn or a similar right wing catholofascist will praise the good minister soon in an article I'll be pleased to laugh at.

later12

hotmail.com wrote: »

I agree completely, politicians attending mass, praying and saying they are religious is just a farce.

Spacedog wrote: »

we are taking 5bn from the IMF 'overdraft account' at 9% interest

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

This proves yet again that the Govt [...] still kowtows to the church like it's the 1950's.

Another balanced set of opinions and accurate facts on another boards.ie politics thread

Mervyn Crawford

My view is that the Church must be removed from all institutions of the state. No monies, funds, subventions, tax breaks or financial relief of any sort should be given to the Catholic Church. Or any religion.

The Church must be denied access to state media, schools, colleges, libraries, hospitals and any institution of the state.

No religious ceremonies, demonstrations, vigils etc should be allowed in public spaces.

A person’s right to practice their religion must be constitutionally protected. Under such legal entitlement religious organizations must be allowed to raise finance from their members to enable the church to function.

The state cannot arbitrarily close places of religious worship or deny access to those places. Neither can it interfere with the functions of church officials.

An audit must be taken of all Church property and finances with a view to restoring to the state, on behalf of it’s citizens, the wealth that the church misappropriated from the citizenry under the false premise that the Church was acting in the best interests of the people; and would use donations and state funds justly. The Church should be left with premises for its members to practice their religion.

The state should take over the responsibility of housing Church officials at a fair rent; and supporting those officials who are old and infirm. The Church must pay the salaries of all its working officials.

These proposals beg the question of the role of the state in the current political formation.

The state as it stands has worked, and will continue to work, hand-in-glove with the Catholic Church in a common front against the citizenry, and in the interests of the rich and powerful. Neither the Church nor the state will change under pressure from any quarter. They are what they are.

expectationlost

now he's saying that the state had to take a share of the blame because it was there responsibilty too, but he continued to deny responsibility for the state courts sending women to be lost the laundaries, time after time he stood up in the dail and refused to take responsibility on behalf of the state.

irishh_bob

hotmail.com wrote: »

That's why I put religious in italics. I agree completely, politicians attending mass, praying and saying they are religious is just a farce.

Sure Bertie is very religious as well.

de bert attended ma _ma _ma_ mass everyday according to many people

Seth Brundle

irishh_bob wrote: »

de bert attended ma _ma _ma_ mass everyday according to many people

Praying for forgiveness?

Mervyn Crawford

Religious belief is a matter of faith. There cannot be any scientific proof of what is claimed to be supernatural. Therefore, religious belief is a private matter. You beleive it if you wish.

Politically, because religious belief is unprovable and is personal it must play no role in the state or it's institutions.

Atheists have taken a conscious decision that they believe that reality is a material thing. That there is nothing outside this material reality.

Marx's famous phrases concerning religion being the 'Opium of the people' expresses a sympathy for the oppressed who are looking for a heart in a heartless world - of class society.

However, official religion which claims a to be the bearer of charity etc is, as Irish history shows, in fact the bearer of the morality of the rich.

The oppressed of the world can only gain by throwing of religious obfuscation. There is nothing for us in religion except confusion and powerlessness.

hardCopy

kbannon wrote: »

Praying for forgiveness?

Funerals probably

GarlicBread

Michael Woods was/is in opus dei. Opus dei are a wing of the catholic church. They swear an oath to defend the church above all else, then they take up positions within other organizations like political parties, governments and the like. When the time comes, they will do what the church needs them to do.

Seth Brundle

GarlicBread wrote: »

Michael Woods was/is in opus dei.

I know there was a rumour but have you managed to get the proof of this?

Wide Road

GarlicBread wrote: »

Michael Woods was/is in opus dei. Opus dei are a wing of the catholic church. They swear an oath to defend the church above all else, then they take up positions within other organizations like political parties, governments and the like. When the time comes, they will do what the church needs them to do.

Sorry to interrupt but is there any chance that we might have the truth for a change. The "thank you" guys are quiet just like the guys that listed Ml Woods as being corrupt on this site a while ago. I know it's been a while but Ml was on a corrupt thread. It's a very serious allegation, as ye know.

Mervyn Crawford

Woods' membership or not of Opus Dei is not the most important issue. Although it is of some significance.

Irish official political life is intimately bound up with the Catholic and protestant churches.

A conspiracy does exist; but not of the fantasy variety espoused a la Dan Brown.

The Catholic Church is one wing of the support network that underpins the reign of the capitalist ruling class. Other wings are the Dail Parties, the Trade Unions, the broadcast and print media, the GAA, and of course the machinery of the state.

A tiny corner was lifted by Fitzpatrick's revelations concerning a FEW of the meetings he has had with Cowen. (And Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, the leader of the People, at a playground of the rich, Druids Glen golf club).
This is the real conspiracy of constant meetings, phone calls, get-togethers, coded public statements etc, etc.

ISAW

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

Politically, because religious belief is unprovable and is personal it must play no role in the state or it's institutions.

Political belief may be unprovable too! So we should stop socialists and marxists bei9ng involved in the State as well?

Atheists have taken a conscious decision that they believe that reality is a material thing. That there is nothing outside this material reality.

I can't prove units or particles of love either but people believe love exists.
Human values exist too.

Marx's famous phrases concerning religion being the 'Opium of the people' expresses a sympathy for the oppressed who are looking for a heart in a heartless world - of class society.

On the one hand you say "we cant prove God" but on the other "it is all because of class"
Can yu prove it?

However, official religion which claims a to be the bearer of charity etc is, as Irish history shows, in fact the bearer of the morality of the rich.

Quakers set up kitchens in the famine. Christian Brothers and Priests lived a frugal life in Ireland. Catholics were the poorer for centuries and yet the vast majority of the population.

The oppressed of the world can only gain by throwing of religious obfuscation. There is nothing for us in religion except confusion and powerlessness.

Funny then how the entire black struggle for freedom in the US is totally rooted in their religious beliefs then isn't it?

Liam Byrne

Wide Road wrote: »

Sorry to interrupt but is there any chance that we might have the truth for a change. The "thank you" guys are quiet just like the guys that listed Ml Woods as being corrupt on this site a while ago. I know it's been a while but Ml was on a corrupt thread. It's a very serious allegation, as ye know.

While I too would like to see proof for such claims, the bigger issue is the fact that he has forced us to pay compensation instead of the church themselves or those responsible.

That appears to be a common issue with FF - get the taxpayer to foot them bill regardless of who's responsible.

I don't care whether or not Woods' membership of a club affected his decision; ultimately it's still a bad call either way.

ISAW

GarlicBread wrote: »

Michael Woods was/is in opus dei.

I don't believe you.

Opus dei are a wing of the catholic church.

I think the term is "personal prelature"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_prelature

They swear an oath to defend the church above all else,

actually they don't! From above:

However, the laity and clergy of the prelature do not take the three vows which members of religious orders take.

aqnd fronm their own web page:http://www.opusdei.ie/art.php?p=48

The faithful of the Prelature join by a contractual commitment rather than by vows. They remain ordinary faithful of their dioceses and are free to engage in the same social and political activities as other Catholics.

then they take up positions within other organizations like political parties, governments and the like. When the time comes, they will do what the church needs them to do.

I think you have been reading to much Dan Brown!

again from their web page

Commitments include a plan of spiritual life, centered on daily Mass, Holy Communion and frequent use of the sacrament of Penance, as well as reading Sacred Scripture and other spiritual texts, reciting the Rosary, and spending time in personal prayer. Through a life of joyful and generous self-giving to God and neighbour, they embrace the Cross of Christ hidden in the challenges of daily life. The Prelature's faithful also strive to carry out the duty that all Christians have of spreading the Gospel message effectively to those around them. This apostolic responsibility is an essential part of the Christian vocation, and thus of the vocation to Opus Dei.

That looks like covert group to you? Watch out! they are lurking in the churches and confession boxes and saying rosaries waiting to pounce out on people and take over their government!

ISAW

Liam Byrne wrote: »

While I too would like to see proof for such claims, the bigger issue is the fact that he has forced us to pay compensation instead of the church themselves or those responsible.

That appears to be a common issue with FF - get the taxpayer to foot them bill regardless of who's responsible.

I don't care whether or not Woods' membership of a club affected his decision; ultimately it's still a bad call either way.

Okay then. so you have people who were victims and the prospect of another series of Tribunals which can last another decade of two. You could of course make a deal which pays out immediately. What would you do?

ISAW

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

This is the real conspiracy of constant meetings, phone calls, get-togethers, coded public statements etc, etc.

A conspiracy is when people come together in secret and plan to do something illegal e.g. over throw the State. I don't think people met to plan how they would collapse the banks. Nor do I think Cowan conspired in such things. Oops sorry I don't think Woods met the two nuns to do this either.

Liam Byrne

ISAW wrote: »

Okay then. so you have people who were victims and the prospect of another series of Tribunals which can last another decade of two. You could of course make a deal which pays out immediately. What would you do?

Why are those the only 2 options ?

Normal crimes are dealt with in courts, not tribunals, and there's nothing special about one church that should change that.

Are you happy to foot the bill for child rapists and violent abusers ? Do you seriously think that's fair or the best option ?