Plumbing Stove Via Attic

nophd08

Hi all. Is it possible to plumb a stove with a back boiler to hotpress via the attic. I live in a bungalow and i'm trying to avoid digging up wooden floors etc. Hotpress is about 4 metres away (as the crow flies).
Should this be avoided at all costs and if it can be done will it work properly. I wont be tackling this myself but i'd like to be up to speed before I get a plumber in. Any advice welcome.

2 stroke

I'd consider a well insulated cylinder in the attic and a small rad in hotpress. Much more storage in hotpress, cylinder in attic makes a lot of sense with solar panels. Don't expect every plumber to think this way though.

cabledude

why would you put a rad n the hotpress?

cabledude

nophd08 wrote: »

Hi all. Is it possible to plumb a stove with a back boiler to hotpress via the attic. I live in a bungalow and i'm trying to avoid digging up wooden floors etc. Hotpress is about 4 metres away (as the crow flies).
Should this be avoided at all costs and if it can be done will it work properly. I wont be tackling this myself but i'd like to be up to speed before I get a plumber in. Any advice welcome.

I did this. Works fine.

nophd08

2 stroke wrote: »

I'd consider a well insulated cylinder in the attic and a small rad in hotpress. Much more storage in hotpress, cylinder in attic makes a lot of sense with solar panels. Don't expect every plumber to think this way though.

That thought did cross my mind and I already have a small rad in hotpress. Can I retain my current cylinder and is it possible to link both DHW set ups. I think I mentioned it to a plumber a couple of years ago and he dismissed it. said it would never work.

nophd08

cabledude wrote: »

I did this. Works fine.

Which did you do, loop up and down to hotpress or put cylinder in attic.

cabledude

nophd08 wrote: »

Which did you do, loop up and down to hotpress or put cylinder in attic.

Up and down to hotpress. Had to buy a genny as a back up for circulation pump in case power fails....Although if i was building again i'd do it the traditional way.

I'd never have considered a rad in the hotpress with the amount of pipe's already there...

Sparkpea

cabledude wrote: »

why would you put a rad n the hotpress?

because if hot tank is not there then you wont have heat to air the clothes, thats what people miss about the insulated jackets or pressurised systems etc.

nophd08

cabledude wrote: »

Up and down to hotpress. Had to buy a genny as a back up for circulation pump in case power fails....Although if i was building again i'd do it the traditional way.

I'd never have considered a rad in the hotpress with the amount of pipe's already there...

Dont like the idea of needing a genny on standby. There must be a way of having a safety blow off valve or an expansion to tank.
My DHW cylinder and pipework is well lagged so the rad is a good addition. Its very small.

Stove Fan

nophd08 wrote: »

Hi all. Is it possible to plumb a stove with a back boiler to hotpress via the attic. I live in a bungalow and i'm trying to avoid digging up wooden floors etc. Hotpress is about 4 metres away (as the crow flies).
Should this be avoided at all costs and if it can be done will it work properly. I wont be tackling this myself but i'd like to be up to speed before I get a plumber in. Any advice welcome.

If it was me I would install the stove with the hot water cylinder in the loft above the stove and linked in 1 inch copper pipes. This is much safer than a generator back up. You could also install a heat leak radiator on the wall downstairs providing that the pipe routed up from stove or rised horizontally up to the rad and connected to the top connection on the radiator and the return was diagonally opposite on the bottom back to the stove return tapping. This would need 3/4 inch pipe.

My setup is hot water cylinder in loft and heat leak radiator in the same room as stove about 3 metres away on the other side of a door. I have 3/4 inch copper pipe coming off the heating flow above stove before the pump across the loft floor and it then drops down the wall to the top of the rad and the return pipe flows back under the wooden floor back to the return tapping on the stoves boiler. I have a 3 bar safety valve and an auto air vent fitted to this pipe near the main heating pipes from the boiler.

The heat leak radiator is a radiator that works without the aid of the central heating pump. In a powercut the hot water from stove rises as hotter water is less heavy and rises to the radiator and the heavy cooler water sinks back to the stove to get reheated.
On some bigger stoves you need to fit a heat leak radiator as well as a hot water cylinder to dissipate the heat in a powercut. The stove manufacturer will advice what is needed and what size heat leak radiator to put in if needed.
It works well so far.:D
Stove Fan:)

cabledude

nophd08 wrote: »

Dont like the idea of needing a genny on standby. There must be a way of having a safety blow off valve or an expansion to tank.
My DHW cylinder and pipework is well lagged so the rad is a good addition. Its very small.

Well fair point but the genny is not ONLY for safety of stove. It runs lights etc aswell and allows us to use the stove in a power cut without having to worry about it. Handy when I'm away and herself is in the house with kids.(having enough to contend with never mind worrying if the stove is overheating etc) Of course there are safety valves and an expansion on the flow coming from stove. We put in the stove after house was built. Didn't want to move cylinder to attic because that would have involved huge amount of work.

All in all it's not the preferred way to do it but when it's retro fitting your options are few....

Rad is a good idea none the less....

cabledude

Stove Fan wrote: »

If it was me I would install the stove with the hot water cylinder in the loft above the stove and linked in 1 inch copper pipes. This is much safer than a generator back up.



Yea I hear ya BUT how do you get the hot water DOWN from the attic to heating manifolds/piping. You'd need a circulating pump? How do you power this in a power cut.

Micky Dolenz

It can be done. Keep return pipe on the joists and keep flow approx 1 metre above it, until it drops into hot press.

Stove Fan

cabledude wrote: »

Stove Fan wrote: »

If it was me I would install the stove with the hot water cylinder in the loft above the stove and linked in 1 inch copper pipes. This is much safer than a generator back up.



Yea I hear ya BUT how do you get the hot water DOWN from the attic to heating manifolds/piping. You'd need a circulating pump? How do you power this in a power cut.

I can't do anything to circulate the water to the rads in the rest of the house if there was a powercut unless I plugged in a generator.
The system if there was a powercut the hot water cylinder and heat leak radiator would take up the heat from the fire by gravity circulation. If its a very large boilered stove you may have to draw off some hot water.

You could design a gravity system for the whole house but it would require large bore pipes and would look very unsightly.

Stove Fan:)

nophd08

Stove Fan wrote: »

If it was me I would install the stove with the hot water cylinder in the loft above the stove and linked in 1 inch copper pipes. This is much safer than a generator back up. You could also install a heat leak radiator on the wall downstairs providing that the pipe routed up from stove or rised horizontally up to the rad and connected to the top connection on the radiator and the return was diagonally opposite on the bottom back to the stove return tapping. This would need 3/4 inch pipe.

My setup is hot water cylinder in loft and heat leak radiator in the same room as stove about 3 metres away on the other side of a door. I have 3/4 inch copper pipe coming off the heating flow above stove before the pump across the loft floor and it then drops down the wall to the top of the rad and the return pipe flows back under the wooden floor back to the return tapping on the stoves boiler. I have a 3 bar safety valve and an auto air vent fitted to this pipe near the main heating pipes from the boiler.


The heat leak radiator is a radiator that works without the aid of the central heating pump. In a powercut the hot water from stove rises as hotter water is less heavy and rises to the radiator and the heavy cooler water sinks back to the stove to get reheated.
On some bigger stoves you need to fit a heat leak radiator as well as a hot water cylinder to dissipate the heat in a powercut. The stove manufacturer will advice what is needed and what size heat leak radiator to put in if needed.
It works well so far.:D
Stove Fan:)

Many thanks for all that info. Is your hot water cylinder in attic the only one you have or do you have a seperate one with your oil/gas set up.

Stove Fan

nophd08 wrote: »

Many thanks for all that info. Is your hot water cylinder in attic the only one you have or do you have a seperate one with your oil/gas set up.

We only have one hot water cylinder. No oil or gas, the solid fuel boiler stove is the only source of heating. We don't need any other heating as the house is very warm with just the stove heating the radiators.

I did install a twin coil cylinder so that if we sell the house someone could install a gas or oil boiler and still keep the boiler stove.

Stove Fan:)

sky6

I've read this thread with great interest and found it informative as I too live in a bungalow and was thinking of installing a stove with a Back boiler.
I have a few questions if any of you could answer for me please.
I can see how the Cylinder in the Attic over the Stove will work better for the Hot water. And I understand the reason for a heat dump Rad.
But how is the cold Water feed to the Cylinder provided, given that the Cold Storage Tank will be sitting on the Rafters at the same level as the Bottom of the Cylinder.
Won't the Expansion Tank for the Stove need to be fitted high up in the Attic higher than the Cylinder.
Also will the central Heating work ok if run through the Attic with Feed and return drops in each room were required.
Is the Pump better fitted on the return in the Attic or the drop back down to the Stove.
Also as it's a Bungalow with longer runs of pipework will a bigger pump be required to provide the heat to the furthest point.
Many thanks.

nophd08

sky6 wrote: »

I've read this thread with great interest and found it informative as I too live in a bungalow and was thinking of installing a stove with a Back boiler.
I have a few questions if any of you could answer for me please.
I can see how the Cylinder in the Attic over the Stove will work better for the Hot water. And I understand the reason for a heat dump Rad.
But how is the cold Water feed to the Cylinder provided, given that the Cold Storage Tank will be sitting on the Rafters at the same level as the Bottom of the Cylinder.
Won't the Expansion Tank for the Stove need to be fitted high up in the Attic higher than the Cylinder.
Also will the central Heating work ok if run through the Attic with Feed and return drops in each room were required.
Is the Pump better fitted on the return in the Attic or the drop back down to the Stove.
Also as it's a Bungalow with longer runs of pipework will a bigger pump be required to provide the heat to the furthest point.
Many thanks.

In my attic the cold storage tank is elevated approx 4ft to base of tank so I dont think feed should be a problem. If your tank is on rafters then it would need to be raised up higher than cylinder.
As for the heating you will only be running flow and return drops to your original hot press and connecting to existing heating with non returns etc. Pumping should'nt be a problem if your existing system works.
Im not sure about position of pump.
Only thing is can 2 DHW cylinders be connected if you want to retain your existing set up. In my case I can easily run a seperate hot feed to kitchen sink and to a shower without too much surgery.
Maybe some of the plumbers on here will correct me if I missed anything or that this is all nonsense.

bcool

cabledude wrote: »

Up and down to hotpress. Had to buy a genny as a back up for circulation pump in case power fails....Although if i was building again i'd do it the traditional way.

I'd never have considered a rad in the hotpress with the amount of pipe's already there...

I am also putting in stove (and new cylinder) and would like to avoid putting cylinder in attic. I also want to avoid generator as back up.

Is your pump running all the time. If so the stove manufactures will not guarantee stove as it can cause damage to stove in the long term.

If pump is off; does the circuit with hot water pipe going "down to cylinder"
work ok?