Investigating politicians for corruption?

gimme5minutes

Can someone please give me one good reason why Bertie Ahern hasn't been arrested and taken in for questioning by the gardai on possible corruption charges? We have heard him being linked to corruption all over the national newspapers, tv and radio, and internet sites such as this and politics.ie, for years now yet nothing is done about it.

Are we just waiting for the end of the tribunal? Does anyone think he will be charged even then? I certainly don't.

Biggins

He knows too much, who's involved and where probably the cash-cow still might be!

Gunsfortoys

Biggins wrote: »

He knows too much, who's involved and where probably the cash-cow still might be!

Exactly.

He has a lot of people on a string and he will break it if any of them say a word judging by his recent comments of Cowen.

Shea O'Meara

If the state were a private company and it was you, you would have been investigated by the police on the first sniff or fraud.

As it stands, nobody wants to risk their career and the possibility of being sued on behalf of the Irish people at a cost to the Irish people.
Any politician who pushes for such a thing would probably not be thanked by the polls.

Even if the tribunal comes up with something tangible rather than a, 'well it seems he did bad, but can't prove legality', I would expect some kind of mediocre fine which can be paid in dribs and drabs over years, which will initially be put on hold as he brings the tribunal to court.

PeterIanStaker

The legal profession and the political elite of this dead, failed state are have always been arm in arm with each other. Just like the clergy when it comes to covering things up.

Besides, do we really need another taxpayer funded Tribunal that will trundle on for a deacde at the expense of you and I and achieve nothing?

ilovesleep

Well thats just great that is. Bollocks Ahern and the rest of his buddies will walk away free with their fat pensions.

bladespin

Why can't there be a criminal negligence law on the books here?
Surely some of our current government are guilty of that, Lenihan with the bank guarantee, Cowen for meeting the financial regulator twice in his time as minister for finance etc. etc.

Also I can't understand why our corruption laws are so messy, surely it's as simple proving a decision was made for personal gain.

Yes I know how niave I sound

yoshytoshy

Cowen wanted to save his own ass when they bailed out the banks ,

Link

Biggins

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Cowen wanted to save his own ass when they bailed out the banks ,

Link

This type of thing does not surprise me to be honest.
FF and to an extent FG I suspect, is deeply involved in the banks, property, land and other related connecting areas of investment and business.

Going on what has been exposed in previous years and their overall antics, it comes as no shock whatsoever.

yoshytoshy

Biggins wrote: »

Going on what has been exposed in previous years and their overall antics, it comes as no shock whatsoever.

It's from nearly two years ago ,but shows the circus that was going on in government. The type of things that their time was taken up with ,while they were suppose to be running the country.

kaiser sauze

IBTL

ilovesleep

Did iceland hold a referendum in 08 when their banks were failing to allow the people of iceland to decide what they wanted. I threw into google but didnt get anything.

The night of September 28th 2008 here in Ireland when Lenihan signed our names away was the biggest theft and fraud in the history of this state. If anyone here were to sign someone elses name to a form it would be considered fraud and you could bet your ass that you would end up in court.

All FF care about is protecting their developer mates and saving the banks.

Noreen1

ilovesleep wrote: »

Did iceland hold a referendum in 08 when their banks were failing to allow the people of iceland to decide what they wanted. I threw into google but didnt get anything.

The night of September 28th 2008 here in Ireland when Lenihan signed our names away was the biggest theft and fraud in the history of this state. If anyone here were to sign someone elses name to a form it would be considered fraud and you could bet your ass that we would end up in court.

All FF care about is protecting their developer mates and saving the banks.

+1. The trouble is, the opposition parties were less than stellar in opposing either the bank guarantee, or the terms of the bailout.

True, some token gestures were made - but in terms of real leadership, or real solutions being proposed, their performance was pretty woeful IMHO.

And don't even get me started on either accountability, or honesty when "communicating":rolleyes: with the public.

GeorgeCostanza

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Besides, do we really need another taxpayer funded Tribunal that will trundle on for a deacde at the expense of you and I and achieve nothing?

But isn't that the OP's point, in essence? Why have tribunals at all?? The Gardai Fraud Squad should have been investigating this from the start.

I'm as perplexed as the OP is about this. It's quite obvious Ahern told a series of porkies at the tribunal, so why is he not being challenged by the Gardai?

Nuts. Simply nuts.

Spacedog

Watch The Wire...

It shows what happens if the police have the balls to go after corrupt politicians. Clay Davis is the American version Bertie, and should have gotten an Oscar or Golden Globe for the role.

SD.

Biggins

GeorgeCostanza wrote: »

...I'm as perplexed as the OP is about this. It's quite obvious Ahern told a series of porkies at the tribunal, so why is he not being challenged by the Gardai?

Nuts. Simply nuts.

...Part of the reason might be that also those investigating Bertie and those connected with him were given an extremely limited range/scope in which to dig.
They were not allowed to venture further down other avenues to question and/or gather evidence.

Keep this in mind when you acknowledge that the Gardi usually only charge someone with a crime when there is an assumption there is enough evidence to bring about a successful trial outcome.
Add to that there is no further vigour from the heads of our government to push this matter further (I wonder why! :rolleyes: ) and the Gardi are strapped as they are, under-maned, under-resourced and all because of further decisions of our FF masters.

You want answers - so does the rest of us.
However while there sits asses in the Dail that are afraid to look further in to the matter and/or allow the Gardi to do their job right, nothing more will come in investigations or court use.
There are simply too many inner worked connections between FF/FG etc with Bertie/the banks/companies & people giving money to people & parties/etc... that there is those that don't want too much investigating done for fear of what might be exposed, how high it goes and who would be effected!

Frankly - and it only my own opinion - but as far as some people look at Sinn Fein with distant, SF sometimes are really nothing or a patch I suspect on some of those that have been wearing white/blue/green collars for some time now and what they have been up to their necks in! Possibly for a lot longer and just more professional at it!

ilovesleep

Biggans, there is no hope, is there?

Biggins

ilovesleep wrote: »

Biggans, there is no hope, is there?

Nope. Not for a long, long time to come I fear.

Frogeye

Hi Lads

I know bertie took " dig outs" and such. Any idea what he did in return for the dig outs?

Nehaxak

Simple answer to all of this really - nobody as of yet, has made a criminal complaint to the Gardaí about Ahern, providing evidence of same to backup their assertions against him. Until such a time as someone does make that criminal complaint to the Gardaí, they will not and cannot act to investigate the guy on pure media hype and assumptions.

If you want him investigated for criminal wrongdoings, go make a complaint yourself against him to the Gardaí.

ilovesleep

Nehaxak wrote: »

Simple answer to all of this really - nobody as of yet, has made a criminal complaint to the Gardaí about Ahern, providing evidence of same to backup their assertions against him. Until such a time as someone does make that criminal complaint to the Gardaí, they will not and cannot act to investigate the guy on pure media hype and assumptions.

If you want him investigated for criminal wrongdoings, go make a complaint yourself against him to the Gardaí.

Protest time people. Lets march to garda station

Liam Byrne

ilovesleep wrote: »

Protest time people. Lets march to garda station

Unfortunately Ahern is too cunning to leave "proof" of his actions around....sure he even manages to lodge cash without a paper trail!

Mind you, he did admit verbatim to corruption in the form of nepotism at one stage:

"I didn't give them jobs because they gave me money; I gave them jobs because they were my friends"

If the Mahon tribunal inexplicably delays its findings much longer (it's almost a year overdue at this stage, with me pretty sure that it'll get "delayed" until after Ahern swans off into the sunset, a lá Haughey's exit) then we might just have to bite the bullet and do an Al Capone with the above lesser proveable charge.

Not enough, given the damage that he's done, but better than nothing.

yoshytoshy

Theres a big apartment development beside berties offices ,previously to it being built a local business couldn't get planning permission to build a small extension.

Nehaxak

ilovesleep wrote: »

Protest time people. Lets march to garda station

:rolleyes:

Here, baby steps guide...

1. Go to local Garda station

2. "Hello, I'd like to make a criminal complaint of corruption against Bertie Ahern"

3. "ah good man, we've been waiting for someone to get off their arse and come in to us to file a complaint, rather than sit behind a computer all day waffling on about how the guy has never been prosecuted"

4. "Nice one, so anyway, yeah, he's corrupt and stuff and I want him in jail"

5. "Right you are so, and what evidence will you be providing to back up that claim ?"

6. "Ye wha' ? He did all this stuff and then that stuff and he's like a cute whore of a fecker and stuff too"

7. "...Right....but what actual factual evidence have you to back that up so I can get the case together and send it off to the DPP for perusal ?"

8. "De Lads on Boards were saying..."

9. "I'm going to stop ye there lad and ask you to leave now, stop wasting my time"

10. "Fine then, I'll just write muck about him on the interwebs and stuff instead"

Making fun of it all for sure but really, the point stands, until such a time that someone actually makes a complaint to the Gardaí backed up with hard factual evidence of same that will stand up in court - he's not and never has been corrupt. Hearsay and "yer man in the pub said that..." doesn't count as evidence or fact.

If you want him held to account for perceived corruption, go down to the Gardaí and make a complaint yourself and back it up with proof.

Alternatively, start a political party, get elected to the Dáil with a large majority and pass a bill through the system that allows politicians suspected of corruption to be tried in the special criminal courts without a jury or hard factual evidence, merely going on hearsay of a sympathetic to your cause superintendent and sure there ye go.

Liam Byrne

Nehaxak wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Here, baby steps guide...

1. Go to local Garda station

2. "Hello, I'd like to make a criminal complaint of corruption against Bertie Ahern"

3. "ah good man, we've been waiting for someone to get off their arse and come in to us to file a complaint, rather than sit behind a computer all day waffling on about how the guy has never been prosecuted"

4. "Nice one, so anyway, yeah, he's corrupt and stuff and I want him in jail"

5. "Right you are so, and what evidence will you be providing to back up that claim ?"

6. "He's on record himself as admitting to nepotism, the same nepotism that resulted in banks not being regulated and ruined the country."

7. "Really ? What an idiot! Is there a recording of this confession ?"

8. "Yes, it was an interview with Brian Dobson"

9. "OK, thanks. We'll get that off RTE and act accordingly"

Manach

AFAIR, A civil law avenue of approach unfortunately is blocked off, as that as a State functionary performing their tasks, they cannot be sued under tort.