Qualify as lawyer in America

Lawstudent21

does anyone know how to qualify as a barrister or solicitor in America? I have an Irish law degree

dermot_sheehan

You can only qualify in New York or California.

For New York you sit the bar exam and ethics exam and are admitted.

see http://www.nybarexam.org/

Jo King

Lawstudent21 wrote: »

does anyone know how to qualify as a barrister or solicitor in America? I have an Irish law degree

You can't. They do not have barristers or solicitors in America.

crystalmice

They have a fused system- you qualify as an attorney, whether you do litigation or transactional work is up to you after that.

As the above poster said, without an American law degree you can only sit the bar exams in New York or California. You cannot work outside the state you pass the bar in.

After fives years of practising in New York or Cali you can apply to sit the Washington DC bar.

Once you pass the bar you can practise as an attorney, even without any work experience.

The bar is a very difficult exam- it covers about 14 subjects, both state and federal law, and the prep course cost betwenn 3000-6000. The pass rate for students without US law degrees is around 40% afaik, only rising to about 60% for US students. Its a tough road, not to be undertaken lightly!
good luck!

paky

just out of curiosity what is the irish equivalent of the ny bar exams?

FreudianSlippers

paky wrote: »

just out of curiosity what is the irish equivalent of the ny bar exams?

There really isn't one. I suppose the NY Bar is more akin to the FE1s than anything.

The simplest (yet still incorrect) way of thinking of it is that a Solicitor is like a regular attorney and a Barrister is like a trial attorney.
That's not really correct, but I guess it's the easiest way to think about it.

Unlike here, they all qualify through the same exams.

crystalmice

paky wrote: »

just out of curiosity what is the irish equivalent of the ny bar exams?

Agreed with OisinT that there is no direct comparison, but its worth noting that Americans have to spend three years doing a JD (postgraduate law qualification) before they can sit bar exams, so it is basically similar to doing kings or blackhall but without the practical on-the-job experience.

paky

cool thanks.

so what areas do you need to cover that an irish law degree doesnt?

FreudianSlippers

crystalmice wrote: »

Agreed with OisinT that there is no direct comparison, but its worth noting that Americans have to spend three years doing a JD (postgraduate law qualification) before they can sit bar exams, so it is basically similar to doing kings or blackhall but without the practical on-the-job experience.

paky wrote: »

cool thanks.

so what areas do you need to cover that an irish law degree doesnt?

It's not really an "apples to apples" comparison.

In the US, they do a bachelors degree that qualifies as "pre-law" - these can be degrees in history, english, psychology, political science, etc.

The first 2 years of most of these degrees are spent doing "pre-requisites" - these are the kinds of subjects and the levels of subjects that are covered in the honours exams in the leaving cert.

They are the same level courses done in the JD course as an LL.B. or BCL.

There is basically nothing done in the "pre-law" bachelors degree in the US that is not done in either the leaving cert honours exams, so it's not very relevant that that the JD is considered post-graduate.
(well, unless you want to take the bar in a state other than California or New York directly after your undergrad law course.

paky

so i take you can make big bucks in ny then or is it just the same as here?

FreudianSlippers

paky wrote: »

so i take you can make big bucks in ny then or is it just the same as here?

It's the same as here. Some people make massive amounts of money, some people make no money but the majority are somewhere in the middle.
NYC is a very expensive place to live, but it's where there is the most money to be made.
The rest of the state is going to be less expensive to live (not by much) and it's likely you'll make less too.

My cousin is a lawyer in NYC (who lives in New Jersey) and he hates his job. He's poorly paid and works long hours.
I don't know if he's any good, but I know he's looking for a new job for a few years now and they're hard to come by.

I think California is pretty much the same, but you have a chance of making more money in less populated places in California.

If it were me tomorrow morning and I was only motivated by money I'd probably go to Nevada, Las Vegas or Reno. Crime is high, debts are high and there's money to be made on divorces. Not to mention property is dirt cheap there at the moment.

paky

OisinT wrote: »

It's the same as here. Some people make massive amounts of money, some people make no money but the majority are somewhere in the middle.
NYC is a very expensive place to live, but it's where there is the most money to be made.
The rest of the state is going to be less expensive to live (not by much) and it's likely you'll make less too.

My cousin is a lawyer in NYC (who lives in New Jersey) and he hates his job. He's poorly paid and works long hours.
I don't know if he's any good, but I know he's looking for a new job for a few years now and they're hard to come by.

I think California is pretty much the same, but you have a chance of making more money in less populated places in California.

If it were me tomorrow morning and I was only motivated by money I'd probably go to Nevada, Las Vegas or Reno. Crime is high, debts are high and there's money to be made on divorces. Not to mention property is dirt cheap there at the moment.

cool i'll keep that in mind. i lived in Ny for a while and decided if i needed to get anywhere in life i'd have to come home and get a degree. living isnt really that expensive there, you get quality for your moneys worth unlike here. rent is on average about 125 dollars a week, but thats not bad for what you get. good transport system, hot woman, good social life. it truly is the american dream

Dandelion6

crystalmice wrote: »

its worth noting that Americans have to spend three years doing a JD (postgraduate law qualification) before they can sit bar exams, so it is basically similar to doing kings or blackhall but without the practical on-the-job experience.

Clinical experience is often done in the third year. It may or may not be mandatory depending on the law school.

Arsenal1986

Am I completly wrong in thinking that due to some recent decision, lawyers qualified in one state can practice in another state without having to take that state's bar?

dumbyearbook

A quick point but worth noting you can sit the Cali bar if you don't hold a law degree, whereas for NY you must have a law degree.

metrovelvet

crystalmice wrote: »

Agreed with OisinT that there is no direct comparison, but its worth noting that Americans have to spend three years doing a JD (postgraduate law qualification) before they can sit bar exams, so it is basically similar to doing kings or blackhall but without the practical on-the-job experience.

IN NY state they dont HAVE to to the JD but they wont get hired without one. The NY State bar is a fiddly fussy exam based on KNOWLEDGE of the law. It is commonly known that the students to come out of better law schools like NYU or COlumbia take it two or three times before passing, but the lesser law schools have a higher passing rate because they focus mostly on the bar. The better law schools have more intense philosophical and legal practise curriculums and let you study the bar yourself.

The LAW profession in NY is over populated. At one point the ration was 1 lawyer to every 87 people and one cop to every 2000. There are many a lawyer in basement offices in brooklyn staring out the window waiting for a constitutional case to happen.

I also met a lawyer who works part time in Lord and Taylor's shoe department, something that seriously surprised me.

And yes VERY LONG HOURS in a firm.

FreudianSlippers

Arsenal1986 wrote: »

Am I completly wrong in thinking that due to some recent decision, lawyers qualified in one state can practice in another state without having to take that state's bar?

AFAIK you're not wrong; that seems to be the case in certain states. I haven't looked into all of them, but I think the majority have this rule now.

paky

dumbyearbook wrote: »

A quick point but worth noting you can sit the Cali bar if you don't hold a law degree, whereas for NY you must have a law degree.

can you practise if you pass the exam?