vaccine question

carfiosaoorl

Hi all I was hoping someone here could tell me what preservative is used now in multidose vaccine vials instead of thimerosal. I cant seem to find the information online. TIA.

carfiosaoorl

75 views and no replies, I'm not sure what to think. I realise my post must look odd because its my first post but I have lurked on here for quite a while. Im not trying to start a debate. If anyone wants to pm me that would be great just looking for info

Vorsprung

Or maybe people don't know...

carfiosaoorl

Maybe, I guess thats possible I just thought that somebody would know

FluffyCat

I havent a clue
Check the IMB website, it may contain that info or ask in a doc surgery.

Dave!

OP I had a good look online and the only info I could find says that the vaccine does in fact contain thimerosal.

It's kind of awkward, but I found it in a powerpoint presentation, which you can see here. It's on the CDC website though.

Here's the relevant section:

# Both live attenuated and inactivated formulations are available for seasonal and H1N1 vaccines
# Inactivated vaccine is available in multidose vials (with thimerosal), single-dose vials (preservative-free, seasonal only), and prefilled syringes (preservative-free)
# All U.S. influenza vaccines contain egg protein
# No U.S. influenza vaccine contains an adjuvant

Of course, you'd be at greater risk of mercury toxicity if you ate a tuna sandwich than if you had thimerosal injected into you (at the volumes used in the vaccine), so there's nothing to worry about there unless you're allergic or something.

drkpower

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

Hi all I was hoping someone here could tell me what preservative is used now in multidose vaccine vials instead of thimerosal. I cant seem to find the information online. TIA.

Cyanide mixed with equal quantities of arsenic and pure EVIL.....:eek:

I'll get my coat....

RobFowl

The influenza vaccine we're using this year (supplied by the HSE) is the "inactrivated influenza vaccine (Split virion) BP. suspension for injection in prefilled syringe".
It's manufactured by Sanofi Pasteur MSD

It containns the
H1N1 derived strain
H3N2 like strain derived from a/ Victoria/210/2009 and B/Brisbane/60/2008
which are the flu vaccine strains

they are propagated in hens eggs

The other ingrediants are listed as a buffer solution containing sodium chloride, disodium phospate dihydrate, potassium dihydrogen phospate, potassium chloride and water.

And thats it.......

drzhivago

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

Hi all I was hoping someone here could tell me what preservative is used now in multidose vaccine vials instead of thimerosal. I cant seem to find the information online. TIA.

Why not go to local pharmacy and ask the pharmacist they are after all experts in medications and side effects


Most GPs will be aware of the vaccines intended effects and side effects but not necessarily aware of what buffer/preservative solutions are used

carfiosaoorl

Thank you all for replies:)

metrovelvet

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

opinion guy

Dave! wrote: »

OP I had a good look online and the only info I could find says that the vaccine does in fact contain thimerosal.

It's kind of awkward, but I found it in a powerpoint presentation, which you can see here. It's on the CDC website though.

Here's the relevant section:


Of course, you'd be at greater risk of mercury toxicity if you ate a tuna sandwich than if you had thimerosal injected into you (at the volumes used in the vaccine), so there's nothing to worry about there unless you're allergic or something.

Well it turns out comparing methylmercury toxicity to ethylmercury toxicity is not as straight forward as first assumed. Methylmercury is more toxic weight for weight, but ethylmercury leads to more deposition of inorganic mercury in the brain weight for weight than methylmercury does.

But apart from any of that - thimerosal is within the top ten contact allergens in the US.

Dave!

opinion guy wrote: »

Well it turns out comparing methylmercury toxicity to ethylmercury toxicity is not as straight forward as first assumed. Methylmercury is more toxic weight for weight, but ethylmercury leads to more deposition of inorganic mercury in the brain weight for weight than methylmercury does.

But apart from any of that - thimerosal is within the top ten contact allergens in the US.

Irrelevant really, there's no evidence that it causes any harm at the dose present in vaccines, so please don't muddy the waters with this stuff.

RobFowl

Just to clarify again we are not using the multi-dose vial this year in Ireland. The vaccine supplied by the HSE is the single dose on manufactured by Sanofi pasteur MSD !!!

carfiosaoorl

opinion guy wrote: »

Well it turns out comparing methylmercury toxicity to ethylmercury toxicity is not as straight forward as first assumed. Methylmercury is more toxic weight for weight, but ethylmercury leads to more deposition of inorganic mercury in the brain weight for weight than methylmercury does.

But apart from any of that - thimerosal is within the top ten contact allergens in the US.

Hi opinion guy where did you find that info? Can you provide a link, thanks.

opinion guy

Dave! wrote: »

Irrelevant really, there's no evidence that it causes any harm at the dose present in vaccines, so please don't muddy the waters with this stuff.

Em exuse me ???
The toxicological science of mercury is irrelevant in a discussion about toxicity of mercury ?

Muddy the waters ? So you've made your mind up and don't want to know anymore information on the topic is that it ?

opinion guy

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

Hi opinion guy where did you find that info? Can you provide a link, thanks.

Its deep in some papers comparing toxicity of ethylmerury with methylmercury in rats.
One by Magos in 1985 and I think one by Burbacher more recently. THere's a third paper but I can't recall who wrote it

Dave!

opinion guy wrote: »

Em exuse me ???
The toxicological science of mercury is irrelevant in a discussion about toxicity of mercury ?

Muddy the waters ? So you've made your mind up and don't want to know anymore information on the topic is that it ?

No, but the research has been done, and no evidence of harm has been found, so speculating about toxicity is not helpful. We know that mercury is toxic, but toxicity is dependant on dosage, and there is fvck all mercury in vaccines.

More info is on the CDC website
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/index.html

opinion guy

Dave! wrote: »

No, but the research has been done, and no evidence of harm has been found, so speculating about toxicity is not helpful. We know that mercury is toxic, but toxicity is dependant on dosage, and there is fvck all mercury in vaccines.

More info is on the CDC website
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/index.html

But clinical research done on mercury toxicity ignorant of the science of toxicity of mercury is flawed. Wouldn't you say? Toxicity is only partially dependant on dosage.

But forgetting that for a minute. This thread was started to enquire if thimerosal was in a vaccine, not to debate toxicity. You are the one who brought that into it. I'm curious why. Isn't the Op entitled to ask about this without being told he/she shouldn't worry about mercury toxicity ?

Dave!

opinion guy wrote: »

But clinical research done on mercury toxicity ignorant of the science of toxicity of mercury is flawed. Wouldn't you say? Toxicity is only partially dependant on dosage.

Well sure, but the studies done test the hypothesis that the thimerosal in childhood vaccines leads to neurological disorders, so that's the relevant variable. If the mercury was toxic at the volumes present in vaccines, then this would show up in the studies, I would think (I'm not a medical researcher, mind).

opinion guy wrote: »

But forgetting that for a minute. This thread was started to enquire if thimerosal was in a vaccine, not to debate toxicity. You are the one who brought that into it. I'm curious why. Isn't the Op entitled to ask about this without being told he/she shouldn't worry about mercury toxicity ?

They're entitled to ask, and I'm entitled to give my thoughts too (note that I tried to answer their question also). The thimerosal issue is brought up frequently by anti-vaccination campaigners, and sometimes just by concerned parents. I have no clue if the OP falls into either of those categories, but just in case I thought it was worth mentioning that thimerosal is not problematic. I don't see what the big deal is. Judging by the OP's reply to your post on toxicity, they're obviously interested in finding out a bit more about thimerosal. That's pretty understandable.

carfiosaoorl

Dave! wrote: »

Well sure, but the studies done test the hypothesis that the thimerosal in childhood vaccines leads to neurological disorders, so that's the relevant variable. If the mercury was toxic at the volumes present in vaccines, then this would show up in the studies, I would think (I'm not a medical researcher, mind).



They're entitled to ask, and I'm entitled to give my thoughts too (note that I tried to answer their question also). The thimerosal issue is brought up frequently by anti-vaccination campaigners, and sometimes just by concerned parents. I have no clue if the OP falls into either of those categories, but just in case I thought it was worth mentioning that thimerosal is not problematic. I don't see what the big deal is. Judging by the OP's reply to your post on toxicity, they're obviously interested in finding out a bit more about thimerosal. That's pretty understandable.

I fall into the concerned parent category:) My daughters vaccines came from multi dose vials, so Im trying to find out how much thimerosal they contained. I could go back to her gp but I have moved to a different county since.

opinion guy- I found the studies you mentioned thanks:)

Dave!

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

I fall into the concerned parent category:) My daughters vaccines came from multi dose vials, so Im trying to find out how much thimerosal they contained. I could go back to her gp but I have moved to a different county since.

opinion guy- I found the studies you mentioned thanks:)

Ah right, cool

There's alot of misinformation available online about vaccination, so be careful if you're doing your own research. Best to listen to the advice of expert bodies like the Centre for Disease Control in America rather than individual campaigners. This site is good, has some research information:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/index.html

All the best!

opinion guy

Dave! wrote: »

Ah right, cool

There's alot of misinformation available online about vaccination, so be careful if you're doing your own research. Best to listen to the advice of expert bodies like the Centre for Disease Control in America rather than individual campaigners. This site is good, has some research information:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/index.html

All the best!

I actually agree with this. There is alot of misinformation available on this stuff and expert bodies are the best place to go.

But its always advisable to maintain a critical mindset independent of the data source. Skepticism is not supposed to only applied to less authoritive information sources - it should be applied equally regardless of source.

For example its interesting that for at least one of the articles profiled on the CDC page there are letters to the editor in the source journal criticizing the study design that they've failed to mention on the CDC page.

Its important to read widely and apply high critical standards to all the papers you read - irregardless of the high standing or otherwise of the source.