Civil Partnership my arseeee

jerry2623

Just been down to my local registry office to register for the big event.After all the spin from the dept is we can finally tie the knot from the 1st of Jan onwards Well it seems the big event is along way off as they have nothing on there system in the HSE controlled registry office on Civil Partnerships and not expecting to have until the end of the month.
when they do get it up on the system you will be given a date to make appointment with a registrar which will be probably around march as they are very busy.
At this meeting your three months notice kicks in starts and as of today they are fully booked for marriage cermonies until the end of the summer so basically We are looking at the start of next year before we can register a partnership that has been going for over 17 years
We do live in a banana republic after all :mad:

Dr. Baltar

Sorry to hear that! I hope it all works out for the best.

Annasopra

jerry2623 wrote: »

Just been down to my local registry office to register for the big event.After all the spin from the dept is we can finally tie the knot from the 1st of Jan onwards Well it seems the big event is along way off as they have nothing on there system in the HSE controlled registry office on Civil Partnerships and not expecting to have until the end of the month.
when they do get it up on the system you will be given a date to make appointment with a registrar which will be probably around march as they are very busy.
At this meeting your three months notice kicks in starts and as of today they are fully booked for marriage cermonies until the end of the summer so basically We are looking at the start of next year before we can register a partnership that has been going for over 17 years
We do live in a banana republic after all :mad:

Could you go to a registry office in a different county?

I dont understand why your local office has nothing on the system when it is up on the GRO website

http://www.groireland.ie/english_cp.pdf

http://www.groireland.ie/civil_partnership.htm

ixoy

I'd have assumed the HSE systems are centralised, so if this means there's nothing available on any of the systems, then it's an absolute disgrace and it should be highlighted immediately for the farce that it is.

As for the waiting period - well that's nothing particular to civil partnerships as anyone would have to wait for this. People also have to wait for slots to get married as well. As johnnymcg said, you may be able to look at a different county.

jerry2623

It appears there IT people need to reword the forms and therefore wont be on the system nationally until after the 24th of Jan
so there is no pOint going to any other county I am here in Cork City which by all accounts is not as back logged as other parts of the country.
What is amazing is when the goverment want to take money from you they can update sytems in an instant It is not as this law was rushed through the wording of this has been out in the open for years

ixoy

How many forms are there that it would take 3 weeks to do a software release? That seems very long (and I've worked on large-scale IT systems).

It's exactly the sort of story that should be released to a paper, to further highlight the disgraceful disorganisation of our country.

Beruthiel

In fairness jerry2623, this is what it's like for everyone.
Most couples plan their weddings over a year in advance, especially if they want a certain date.
I managed to organise mine in 6 months. It took over a month to get to see the register (Naas) and then the usual 3 month wait.
I also got married on a Monday and did not use the Government Register, but Ray Sweeney, Head of the Pagan Federation.

ztoical

Beruthiel wrote: »

In fairness jerry2623, this is what it's like for everyone.

+1 Bit of a pain they weren't ready regarding the IT side but as for the wait it's the same for everyone.

jerry2623

I actually dont want a certain date or any who ha running up isles etc. This is purely a legal situation I woulds like to resolve .
They actually only do 4 cermonies a day 2 in there offices and 2 in hotels.
When I asked her what was the earliest time I could get married she said they do 1 at 12:30 and 1 at 15:00 .The ceremony takes no longer than 20 minutes.
They have a back log of nearly a year there seems to be something completly messed up along the way

I am with my partner for over 17 years we would just like to formalise it for legal reasons in case one of us kicked the bucket

I have not got any interest to be honest in pagan weddings, christian weddings, or any other type of weddings I just need to sign a piece of paper entitling my partner to get my estate and pensions and I get his.

Why this needs nearly a whole year of beurocratic bull****e is beyond me

Nevyn

Civil partnership here still goes through the same process as civil marriage, screw ball but that is how it is and you have to make affirmations out loud ie vows. If you just want to sign a contract and want it fast tracked then I suggest you take a trip to the UK where you both just sign a piece of paper and then get it ratified back here.

If you are going to wait it out in the mean time there is no reason you can't get your partner made your next of kin and the beneficiary of your will and pensions. All of which can be done by filling out the forums and a trip to a solicitor.

jerry2623

ztoical wrote: »

+1 Bit of a pain they weren't ready regarding the IT side but as for the wait it's the same for everyone.

I actually think it is more than a pain these people are been paid lots and lots of money to have there sytems updated.It is typical of the Shoddy we dont give a fukc attitude of public service Managers who will never have to answer to anyone

This law has been going through the system for over two years I think was signed by the president two months ago. A kid would be able to amend the system in a couple of hours

Annasopra

jerry2623 wrote: »

I actually dont want a certain date or any who ha running up isles etc. This is purely a legal situation I woulds like to resolve .
They actually only do 4 cermonies a day 2 in there offices and 2 in hotels.
When I asked her what was the earliest time I could get married she said they do 1 at 12:30 and 1 at 15:00 .The ceremony takes no longer than 20 minutes.
They have a back log of nearly a year there seems to be something completly messed up along the way

I am with my partner for over 17 years we would just like to formalise it for legal reasons in case one of us kicked the bucket

I have not got any interest to be honest in pagan weddings, christian weddings, or any other type of weddings I just need to sign a piece of paper entitling my partner to get my estate and pensions and I get his.

Why this needs nearly a whole year of beurocratic bull****e is beyond me

You don't actually have to have a ceremony for Civil Partnerships

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/reference/legislative/legislative_background_civil_partnership_and_same_sex_couples.html

When the Act is commenced, same-sex couples will be able to register their relationship as a civil partnership. The Registrar-General will be obliged to maintain a register of civil partnerships, a register of decrees of dissolution of civil partnerships and a register of nullity of civil partnerships. The registration rules and processes are broadly similar to those for the registration of a civil marriage and of annulments of marriage and divorce.

Civil partnerships may simply be registered. There will not be any necessity to have a civil partnership ceremony, unlike marriages which require a marriage ceremony. Civil partners may choose to have a ceremony and, if they do, the requirements will be similar to those that apply to marriage ceremonies.

Annasopra

Thaedydal wrote: »

Civil partnership here still goes through the same process as civil marriage

It doesn't - with Civil Marriage by law you have to have a ceremony - with civil partnership you don't

jerry2623

Thaedydal wrote: »

Civil partnership here still goes through the same process as civil marriage, screw ball but that is how it is and you have to make affirmations out loud ie vows. If you just want to sign a contract and want it fast tracked then I suggest you take a trip to the UK where you both just sign a piece of paper and then get it ratified back here.

If you are going to wait it out in the mean time there is no reason you can't get your partner made your next of kin and the beneficiary of your will and pensions. All of which can be done by filling out the forums and a trip to a solicitor.

No problem making vows out loud at all

partner is next of kin but I don't see why the state should get a fair portion of my estate cause we are not married or civil partner ship

Is there a need to go down the name calling route cant understand the use of word SCREWBAll

Annasopra

Its simple - Go back to the registry office - tell them you dont want a ceremony and can they just do it once you have given the 3 months notice

Nevyn

jerry2623 wrote: »

No problem making vows out loud at all

partner is next of kin but I don't see why the state should get a fair portion of my estate cause we are not married or civil partner ship

Is there a need to go down the name calling route cant understand the use of word SCREWBAll

I didn't call you a screwball :rolleyes:, I described the situation as being screwball, ie crazy that they have not got the policies and code of practice in place.

Johnnymcg until the registers are directed and given the guidelines they are treating them the same in practice.

ztoical

As Thaedydal said it's the same as a civil marriage and the waiting list is long. My aunt was under going chemotherapy for cancer and wanted to marry her boyfriend of 10 years before she died and still had to wait several months for a date. Thankfully she has now recovered and is cancer free but it wasn't looking good in the months before the marriage.

ztoical

With regardes to legal side of next of kin etc does the new bill not also cover long-term cohabiting relationships who have not entered into a civil partnership or marriage?

atgate

I had my appointment today - they think its going to take a couple of weeks for the process to go online but they're running a paper system till then. The 3 month clock is now ticking and I'm due to get hitched on April 5th.

Annasopra

atgate wrote: »

I had my appointment today - they think its going to take a couple of weeks for the process to go online but they're running a paper system till then. The 3 month clock is now ticking and I'm due to get hitched on April 5th.

Congratulations

Which county?

jerry2623

atgate wrote: »

I had my appointment today - they think its going to take a couple of weeks for the process to go online but they're running a paper system till then. The 3 month clock is now ticking and I'm due to get hitched on April 5th.

I would imagine Dublin and more importantl I would think that she did not just walk in off the street
This I would safely say has been pre arranged
If so fair play and I am delighted for you
Can you tell me What paper work did you both have to bring with you


lots of questions PM me please if you can
Well Done !

L1011

Thaedydal wrote: »

If you just want to sign a contract and want it fast tracked then I suggest you take a trip to the UK where you both just sign a piece of paper and then get it ratified back here.

As far as I'm aware, the enabling legislation to accept foreign CPs has not yet been written, only the stub allowing such a concept exists.

atgate

Johnnymcg wrote: »

Congratulations

Which county?

Dublin

jerry2623 wrote: »

I would imagine Dublin and more importantl I would think that she did not just walk in off the street
This I would safely say has been pre arranged
If so fair play and I am delighted for you
Can you tell me What paper work did you both have to bring with you

I'm a "he" btw.

I phoned the registrar on the 29th Dec. and asked for the earliest appointment to notify and the earliest date for the actual ceremony. They had one appointment today and a free slot on 5th April.

We brought:

Birth Certs.
Passport
Proof of Address
PPS numbers. (just the info here, no proof needed)
Fee (€150)
Names of our witnesses and their DOBs (just the info here, no proof needed)

It gets more complicated if you've ever been married before.

They were all very pleasant and helpful. They were also apologetic that there was the extra hassle of doing it "off-line".

It seemed to me that today was the first day they actually took notification, seemed like they had just got the hard copy forms.

Annasopra

MYOB wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, the enabling legislation to accept foreign CPs has not yet been written, only the stub allowing such a concept exists.

Huh? The ministerial order was signed on December 23rd

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/SI-649-of-201

atgate

MYOB wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, the enabling legislation to accept foreign CPs has not yet been written, only the stub allowing such a concept exists.

No its done. I got this in an email from GLEN today - its not on their website yet so I can't link it.

Publication of List of Foreign Same-Sex Marriages and Civil Partnerships to be recognised in Ireland


The Department of Justice today published the list of foreign relationships which will be recognised in Ireland as Civil Partnerships. The Minister for Justice, Dermot Ahern T.D. made the Order on 23rd December recognising foreign same-sex marriages or same-sex civil partnership from 27 foreign jurisdictions.

The Department stated that “the order entitles and obliges the parties to the relationship to be treated as civil partners under the law of the State”.

The Order takes effect on 13th January 2011, which is 21 days after the Order was made. On that date, same-sex couples who have previously entered one of the specified relationships will be automatically deemed to be civil partners in Ireland, and will be subject to the rights and obligations specified in the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights of Cohabitants Act 2010.

Couples who already are in one of the specified foreign relationships will not need to re-register in Ireland. The recognition of their foreign civil marriage or civil partnership is automatic.

For further information contact the Dept of Justice or GLEN.

Link to list of countries

L1011

Johnnymcg wrote: »

Huh? The ministerial order was signed on December 23rd

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/SI-649-of-201

I was aware wrong. It was one of the issues raised at the time of the original CP bill being passed in to law and I never saw any coverage of it being sorted.

jerry2623

atgate wrote: »

Dublin



I'm a "he" btw.

I phoned the registrar on the 29th Dec. and asked for the earliest appointment to notify and the earliest date for the actual ceremony. They had one appointment today and a free slot on 5th April.

We brought:

Birth Certs.
Passport
Proof of Address
PPS numbers. (just the info here, no proof needed)
Fee (€150)
Names of our witnesses and their DOBs (just the info here, no proof needed)

It gets more complicated if you've ever been married before.

They were all very pleasant and helpful. They were also apologetic that there was the extra hassle of doing it "off-line".

It seemed to me that today was the first day they actually took notification, seemed like they had just got the hard copy forms.

Amazing luck you had in getting the one appointment today and the one appointment for three months time exactely three months to the day somone up there is looking after you probably Charlie Haughey:)

Cant understand how they were so apologetic about you having to do it "off-line" as it is not possiable to do it "on-line" .but of course you would have known this anyway

Here in Cork and appaerently in Dublin It can take anything up to 2 months to get an appointment with a register and them anything up to six months after this to get a date to actually get hitched
So again very well done

atgate

jerry2623 wrote: »

Amazing luck you had in getting the one appointment today and the one appointment for three months time exactely three months to the day somone up there is looking after you probably Charlie Haughey:)

The Haughey thing is an awful thought. And just for the record no strings were pulled (and I know no one who could have pulled any strings for me).

The off-line / online this meaning they couldn't do it online on their systems they had to do it offline on paper so it took longer - that's why they were apologising.

Aard

atgate wrote: »

Link to list of countries

WTF, they won't recognise a French PACS? Am I wrong, and if not does anybody know why?

Annasopra

Aard wrote: »

WTF, they won't recognise a French PACS? Am I wrong, and if not does anybody know why?

Looks like that is the case yes - I've no idea what criteria thats based on

L1011

Isn't the French PACS available to heterosexual couples too? That'd put a stumbling block in the way of us recognising it as our CP isn't.

Aard

The New Zealand Civil Union is gender neutral. As is the Danish one, if I've read correctly.

Sir Ophiuchus

I remember reading about this somewhere, and that it might have something to do with the fact that the PACS grants fewer rights than the others.

Unfortunately I can't find my source now...

L1011

Aard wrote: »

The New Zealand Civil Union is gender neutral. As is the Danish one, if I've read correctly.

Time to contact Justice and ask, then. That was the only reasoning I could think of.

nodolan

Cork is a mess (don't know what it's like anywhere else). We got married in Barcelona last March so we went to the registrar's office (and Citizen's Information office) in Cork and they knew nothing. They told us we'd have to go through the whole application process for a wedding (they didn't have any of the paperwork or information leaflets for Civil Partnerships) including the three month wait. I knew they were wrong so contacted the DoJ myself and was told we'll have a de facto recognition on the basis of the minister's order.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/SI-649-of-201
http://www.groireland.ie/civil_partnership.htm
http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=16693&&CatID%3B=59

jerry2623

n fairness to Cork it is not there fault . Unfortunately there was no planning in the actual implementation of this by the Department of Health.
The very helpful manager here in Cork told me this morning that they actually have no system to register the actual registration as this has all been computerised and will not be ready until after the 23rd of Jan.
They are now taking actual appointments for the end of Jan and hoping the system will be installed by then
In the last two days they have had more than 50 people through the doors wanting to register
As I have been saying in all my posts the fault lies with the Minister and the senior managers who have had over 6 months to plan this.
Anyway that is the country we live in

I would imagine once the system is up and running your registration can be put up within minutes
The Best of Luck in any case

nodolan

^ I suppose to be fair to Cork (and Ireland), Spain has had same-sex marriage for 5 years and the wedding certificates still say 'husband' and 'wife' :eek:

L1011

Panti's blog explains why the PACS isn't accepted; apparently its because it can be dissolved without a court hearing. We only class ones that require a court hearing to dissolve as equivalent.

nodolan

As of today certain same-sex marriages and civil partnerships from other countries and US states are legally recognised in Ireland:

Argentina

Austria

Belgium

Canada

Czech Republic

Denmark

Finland

Germany

Iceland

Mexico

Netherlands

New Zealand

Norway

Portugal

South Africa

Spain

Sweden

Switzerland

United Kingdom

California (United States of America)

Connecticut (United States of America)

Iowa (United States of America)

Massachusetts (United States of America)

New Hampshire (United States of America)

New Jersey (United States of America)

Vermont (United States of America)

Washington D.C. (United States of America)

from: S.I. No. 649 of 2010 - Civil Partnership (Recognition of Registered Foreign Relationships) Order 2010

DubArk

“The Civil Partnership Act came into effect on 1 January 2011.Due to the three month waiting period for all civil ceremonies in Ireland it is expected that the first civil partnership ceremonies will take place in April 2011.Certain foreign same sex legal relationship (including same sex marriage) is recognised as civil partnerships from January 13, 2011.”

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Ireland

CuppaCocoa

DubArk wrote: »

“The Civil Partnership Act came into effect on 1 January 2011.Due to the three month waiting period for all civil ceremonies in Ireland it is expected that the first civil partnership ceremonies will take place in April 2011.Certain foreign same sex legal relationship (including same sex marriage) is recognised as civil partnerships from January 13, 2011.”

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Ireland

How will they 'recognise' a civil partnership from another country? Do you just bring your certificate to the office for them to see?

DubArk

I would imagine so; just like you register anything… the proof is in the paperwork!

Anyone know more??

nodolan

lilybarlean wrote:

How will they 'recognise' a civil partnership from another country? Do you just bring your certificate to the office for them to see?

You don't bring anything anywhere at first - its a de facto recognition. There's no need to bring any documentation to the registry office is what the Dept Justice and Law Reform told me.

:cool:

When required by whatever body you're dealing with, say Inland Revenue, you'll need to present your civil partnership or wedding license/certificate at that point just like any straight married couple (been there and done that yesterday afternoon so that's how I know that bit though they didn't even ask for it at first and just took my word for it).

Mine is in Spanish and I have an official translation (embassy approved) with an Apostille Stamp from the Spanish embassy in Dublin. I don't know about other countries and languages but I would assume that if your documentation was originally in English then it would be okay however having said that experience tells me to always have the best documentation possible (official stamps and whatnot).

Annasopra

Any update?

atgate

Well I'm done. Had an amazing day

jerry2623

Very well done and the best of luck to you both.
Please God they will have someone in Cork gone through the system before I get there at the end of the month. Not into the publicty thing myself and would hate to see the local rags camped outside the building

nodolan

jerry2623 wrote: »

Very well done and the best of luck to you both.
Please God they will have someone in Cork gone through the system before I get there at the end of the month. Not into the publicty thing myself and would hate to see the local rags camped outside the building

LOL - do you have a big shindig planned? Maybe you will be interviewed by 'Hand Solo' himself (NP)? ;-)

jerry2623

nodolan wrote: »

LOL - do you have a big shindig planned? Maybe you will be interviewed by 'Hand Solo' himself (NP)? ;-)

Perish the thought .. No very small gig planned with big bash later in the year when weather improves

atgate

The publicity was a bit daunting (to say the least) and we were very worried how it would go and if there would be any demonstration outside etc. In the end it was all positive and actually added to the day. Everyone seemed to get caught up in the positive side of it. So we're well happy. We're off in Italy on our honeymoon now :-)

Beruthiel

atgate wrote: »

Well I'm done. Had an amazing day

Congratulations to you both!
May ye live long a prosper.

L1011

Aard wrote: »

WTF, they won't recognise a French PACS? Am I wrong, and if not does anybody know why?

Remembered this post today when reading the list of additional recognised partnerships/marriages:

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR13000420

PACS is still excluded but the full French marriage will be recognised from NYE.