Focus Head gasket - price ok?

beefjerky

Hi,

I don't really have a clue about engines and costs, just basic knowledge so would like to get an opinion.

The garage has told me My 05 1.6 Focus has a cracked head gasket.

The car just started to chugg along the other day and then the engine light came on.

I took it around to a local garage (Artane) and he had a quick look, I was thinking it was the sparks or something, so he had a look and took out a plug and it was soaking wet, same with the next one. So a quick glance to the left and the coolant is almost empty, well below the min mark.

So after stripping it down they have determined there is coolant leaking into the plug area due to the head gasket being cracked. the garage phoned me today to say that they are trying to source a 2nd hand one from a breakers, this plus service, timing belt, water pump, new plugs will cost around €1200-€1400 "ballpark" figure.

Is this a rip off?
Like i say, I have only a basic knowledge, and I know parts cost money but this seems a little pricey to me.

Any reason not to get a 2nd hand one over a new head gasket?
Would it last as long, be more likely to reoccur?

Any other advice or suggestions would be welcome!
I only bought this car in Feb and have had no other problems.

Cheers

If they are looking for a second hand one presumably the actual cylinder head is cracked rather than the head gasket.

DublinDilbert

Do these not give problems with the frost plugs corroding and not sealing properly?? And the area around the spark plug fills with coolant?

Some of the ford experts on here will be able to tell you more.

beefjerky

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Do these not give problems with the frost plugs corroding and not sealing properly?? And the area around the spark plug fills with coolant?

Some of the ford experts on here will be able to tell you more.

Thanks, if you are talking about 2nd hand ones giving problems, is this from experience?

now wondering why they would suggest a 2nd hand one if it will cause future problems and there is more money to be made on a new one...

Plug

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Do these not give problems with the frost plugs corroding and not sealing properly?? And the area around the spark plug fills with coolant?

Some of the ford experts on here will be able to tell you more.

On top of the cylinder head they fill up with rain water leaking in from the water jets, this then causes the frost plugs to leak and then coolant leaks into the top of the cylinder head and causes misfires and do ya know what?
It gives the EXACT symptoms beefjerky said. I never ever saw a zetec head cracked and I work on these the whole time.


I'd get a another mechanic to take a look who knows you might only have to pay €2 each for the frost plugs instead of €1400!

Leonard Hofstadter

beefjerky wrote: »

Hi,

I don't really have a clue about engines and costs, just basic knowledge so would like to get an opinion.

The garage has told me My 05 1.6 Focus has a cracked head gasket.

The car just started to chugg along the other day and then the engine light came on.

I took it around to a local garage (Artane) and he had a quick look, I was thinking it was the sparks or something, so he had a look and took out a plug and it was soaking wet, same with the next one. So a quick glance to the left and the coolant is almost empty, well below the min mark.

So after stripping it down they have determined there is coolant leaking into the plug area due to the head gasket being cracked. the garage phoned me today to say that they are trying to source a 2nd hand one from a breakers, this plus service, timing belt, water pump, new plugs will cost around €1200-€1400 "ballpark" figure.

Is this a rip off?
Like i say, I have only a basic knowledge, and I know parts cost money but this seems a little pricey to me.

Any reason not to get a 2nd hand one over a new head gasket?
Would it last as long, be more likely to reoccur?

Any other advice or suggestions would be welcome!
I only bought this car in Feb and have had no other problems.

Cheers

Well, you don't buy a "second hand" head gasket from a breakers for starters.

A HG is at most 30 yoyos - and they cannot be re-used.

Ford engines rarely, if ever, suffer from HG failure - maybe the old CVHs did but the modern engines don't.

HG failure can cause coolant to mix with the plugs and to enter cylinders - which may crack the cylinder head/engine block as water cannot be compressed - but it must have been running like a dog for ages for that to happen. And like I say, HG failure in a Focus is very rare.

A cracked head/block, which presumably they are talking about - is equally rare - was the car driven to within an inch of its life? Ford engines are usually very robust.

Now, the coil packs are known to go on these, and that causes them to run rough, misfire, down on power etc, but this is a €400 job at most.

Someone else mentioned water getting into the plugs. This is also problem with the Mk2 Focus, but I would not expect it to crack the block unless it was doing it for ages - at worst the engine will run extremely rough and misfire.

It is well advised to change the t/belt if the gasket needs doing, but I would say that checking the coil pack and cleaning out the plugs will resolve the issue.

The Mk1 Focus didn't need a timing belt change until 100k miles or every ten years, whichever came first. The Mk2 Focus uses the same petrol engines (I presume the OP's is petrol) as the Mk1. Maybe Ford did change the intervals but I can't imagine why they would - the Mk1 was not known for its propensity of timing belt failures - unlike Opel engines in the 90s - which had their t/b change halved from 80k to 40k miles.

beefjerky

Plug wrote: »

On top of the cylinder head they fill up with rain water leaking in from the water jets, this then causes the frost plugs to leak and then coolant leaks into the top of the cylinder head and causes misfires and do ya know what?
It gives the EXACT symptoms beefjerky said. I never ever saw a zetec head cracked and I work on these the whole time.


I'd get a another mechanic to take a look who knows you might only have to pay €2 each for the frost plugs instead of €1400!

Cheers Plug, I'll get another couple of opinions before I go with anything, it would be great if that is all it takes to get fixed!!

Would this also be a reason for the coolant level dropping? I only topped it up at the end of August and is now very low.

Plug

beefjerky wrote: »

Cheers Plug, I'll get another couple of opinions before I go with anything, it would be great if that is all it takes to get fixed!!

Would this also be a reason for the coolant level dropping? I only topped it up at the end of August and is now very low.

Yes it causes coolant loss. my money is on the frost plugs. Hopefully you get good news!

DublinDilbert

Plug wrote: »

On top of the cylinder head they fill up with rain water leaking in from the water jets, this then causes the frost plugs to leak and then coolant leaks into the top of the cylinder head and causes misfires and do ya know what?
It gives the EXACT symptoms beefjerky said. I never ever saw a zetec head cracked and I work on these the whole time.


I'd get a another mechanic to take a look who knows you might only have to pay €2 each for the frost plugs instead of €1400!

Yep sounds right. I just hope they haven't taken the head off the engine yet!

beefjerky

captainspeed wrote: »

Well, you don't buy a "second hand" head gasket from a breakers for starters.

A HG is at most 30 yoyos - and they cannot be re-used.

Ford engines rarely, if ever, suffer from HG failure - maybe the old CVHs did but the modern engines don't.

HG failure can cause coolant to mix with the plugs and to enter cylinders - which may crack the cylinder head/engine block as water cannot be compressed - but it must have been running like a dog for ages for that to happen. And like I say, HG failure in a Focus is very rare.

A cracked head/block, which presumably they are talking about - is equally rare - was the car driven to within an inch of its life? Ford engines are usually very robust.

Now, the coil packs are known to go on these, and that causes them to run rough, misfire, down on power etc, but this is a €400 job at most.

Someone else mentioned water getting into the plugs. This is also problem with the Mk2 Focus, but I would not expect it to crack the block unless it was doing it for ages - at worst the engine will run extremely rough and misfire.

It is well advised to change the t/belt if the gasket needs doing, but I would say that checking the coil pack and cleaning out the plugs will resolve the issue.

The Mk1 Focus didn't need a timing belt change until 100k miles or every ten years, whichever came first. The Mk2 Focus uses the same petrol engines (I presume the OP's is petrol) as the Mk1. Maybe Ford did change the intervals but I can't imagine why they would - the Mk1 was not known for its propensity of timing belt failures - unlike Opel engines in the 90s - which had their t/b change halved from 80k to 40k miles.

Thanks Captain, yeah, it is petrol, should have stated this.

It wasn't running like a dog for ages either, it started to chug a bit on the 29th, only really when accelerating. Must've driven an absolute max of 50-60km, then the engine light came on the 30th and I brought it straight to the garage.

I don't know if the t/b has been changed before. When I got it it was on 55KM and now is on 78km, so will likely need changing soon.

I'll bring another mechanic to look at it in the garage, I just wouldn't feel great going in there and asking them to check the coil pack etc to be told "ah yeah we checked that" damn my limited car knowledge!

Should've asked for a Haynes for xmas

Tefral

captainspeed wrote: »

Now, the coil packs are known to go on these, and that causes them to run rough, misfire, down on power etc, but this is a €400 job at most..

Slightly off topic but €400?? is that how much they charge to change a coil pack these days? I bought one for my focus for €60 and fitted it in ten mins..

Op, ive never heard of anyone ever getting a second hand head gasket. They are once off use only. Id get a second opinion, alot of cars without anti freeze will suffer cracked blocks over the extremely cold weather we've had..

Nissan doctor

Defintly get a second opinion. It sounds like they are misdiagnosing the problem to me.

Leonard Hofstadter

cronin_j wrote: »

Slightly off topic but €400?? is that how much they charge to change a coil pack these days? I bought one for my focus for €60 and fitted it in ten mins..

My price is for those who go to a dealer and get them to change the coil packs:). I would expect that changing coil packs, even at a main dealer would be a little less than this though.

Plug

captainspeed wrote: »

My price is for those who go to a dealer and get them to change the coil packs:). I would expect that changing coil packs, even at a main dealer would be a little less than this though.

Jesus I really don't think it would be even a little bit less than €400. Its not going to be anywhere around that mark.

beefjerky

Plug wrote: »

On top of the cylinder head they fill up with rain water leaking in from the water jets, this then causes the frost plugs to leak and then coolant leaks into the top of the cylinder head and causes misfires and do ya know what?
It gives the EXACT symptoms beefjerky said. I never ever saw a zetec head cracked and I work on these the whole time.


I'd get a another mechanic to take a look who knows you might only have to pay €2 each for the frost plugs instead of €1400!

exactly right Plug, fair play! right on the button with the above description of what it was.

Cost is now a grand less than was originally told, cheers for the advice guys. delighted.

I must get some sort of a cover / guard for that

Plug

beefjerky wrote: »

exactly right Plug, fair play! right on the button with the above description of what it was.

Cost is now a grand less than was originally told, cheers for the advice guys. delighted.

I must get some sort of a cover / guard for that

Im happy for ya now! I can tell you this much if you didn't get a mechanic to have a second look at it they would of probably went ahead with the job at a cost of maybe €1000+. You see, you come on to boards and ask a few boardies a question and you save yourself $$$$$:D

As for a cover or gaurd, don't bother. Pop into a Ford garage and ask them for 2 new washer jets, they have rubber seal around them which stop this water leak problem.
Handy fix. Happy to be of a help:)

Esel

Well done, Plug. There's a garage out there that hates you now...

manatoo

Cripes that was impressive Plug....you literally just saved this guy a grand! Are you a mechanic? If so PM me, I have a job needs doin on my motor...

OP, are you still getting the work done by the same garage?? How did you tell them to check what Plug said?

MagicMarker

Woo nice one Plug!

Plug

No problem lads however I should have got the post of the day:p:D

manatoo wrote:

Cripes that was impressive Plug....you literally just saved this guy a grand! Are you a mechanic? If so PM me, I have a job needs doin on my motor...

OP, are you still getting the work done by the same garage?? How did you tell them to check what Plug said?

Yeah im an apprentice mechanic, qualified this year. Im located in Kilkenny but i'll be setting up a small 'after work' garage to do nixers in later this year after I finish FAS so im a no go until then:(

beefjerky

manatoo wrote: »

Cripes that was impressive Plug....you literally just saved this guy a grand! Are you a mechanic? If so PM me, I have a job needs doin on my motor...

OP, are you still getting the work done by the same garage?? How did you tell them to check what Plug said?

Yes, I got it done by the same garage; as I said at the start I don't know much about mechanics so I just took what plug and others said, practiced my confident voice and said something along the lines of...

"are you sure its the head? i've never heard of a cracked head in a focus and to be honest it sounds like the frost plugs need replacing blah blah etc etc..." to him.

So he calls back then and says he did a pressure test on the engine to confirm it's not cracked so it is the frost plugs. Bada-bing.

Thanks again guys!

Jayop

beefjerky wrote: »

exactly right Plug, fair play! right on the button with the above description of what it was.

Cost is now a grand less than was originally told, cheers for the advice guys. delighted.

I must get some sort of a cover / guard for that

You want to get Plugs addres and send him a bottle of brandy!!

Esel

Plug should now be known as Frost Plug!

Gary ITR

esel wrote: »

Plug should now be known as Frost Plug!

Oh dear, the doors over there *points*


Well done Plug, somebody owes you a pint

Nissan doctor

It good to see someone getting the proper diagnosis for their problem.

I'd be wondering how there is a garage dealing with cars everyday that either didn't know that this is the most common problem by a mile with any focus head or was purposely trying to rip the OP off!

Gary ITR

Nissan doctor wrote: »

It good to see someone getting the proper diagnosis for their problem.

I'd be wondering how there is a garage dealing with cars everyday that either didn't know that this is the most common problem by a mile with any focus head or was purposely trying to rip the OP off!

Unfortunately it is hard to believe that it wasn't option number 2

Plug

esel wrote: »

Plug should now be known as Frost Plug!

New username change me thinks:D

Onkle wrote: »

Oh dear, the doors over there *points*


Well done Plug, somebody owes you a pint

cheers! Now in fairness its not a bad username, I could live with it:D

Nissan doctor wrote: »

It good to see someone getting the proper diagnosis for their problem.

I'd be wondering how there is a garage dealing with cars everyday that either didn't know that this is the most common problem by a mile with any focus head or was purposely trying to rip the OP off!

Your right there about them not knowing the problem. They should have diagnosed it correctly in the first place, it was only after the OP told them about the frost plugs that they done a pressure test on the head. Im not sure about them trying to rip him off but its a possibility and the truth is they are fucking numb skulls who do this and give good mechanic's a bad name!:mad: