The War of Independence in Connacht.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Its universally agreed that Munster was the most active region in the war but different books I have read appear to have different information on Connacht particularly Mayo. Some claim the county saw little action while others suggest it was a hotbed of activity. Roscommon also suffers from this to a certain degree. Does anyone know why there is inconsistency amongst different studies on this?

Morlar

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Does anyone know why there is inconsistency amongst different studies on this?

That is going to depend on the sources themselves.

Do you really mean academic studies on this exact topic or do you mean various assorted biographies & books which cover this issue in passing ?

I'd say the reason for inconsistency is going to depend on the sources themselves.

To give you an example 'On another mans wound' may be cited as a source to prove or disprove this theory one way or another (that Connaught was a hotbed) - when in fact it is one mans firsthand experiences, and the individuals experiences may vary due to a whole range of factors including the area of Connaught, the exact timeframe, their position & role within the IRA etc.

If you are referring to academic studies on this exact topic which have wildly differing conclusions then I'd be interested to see links to them (if they are online).

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Im speaking of different academic studies-unfortunately I dont have any at hand and Im not sure if I would be able to find any of them online. Some mention Mayo as an IRA stronghold others mention Roscommon. I'll see if I can find an example online.

PatsytheNazi

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Im speaking of different academic studies-unfortunately I dont have any at hand and Im not sure if I would be able to find any of them online. Some mention Mayo as an IRA stronghold others mention Roscommon. I'll see if I can find an example online.

Interesting, I've seen the same. And what about Galway, under the leadership of Liam Mellowes, it was one of the few places outside Dublin to attempt to support the volunteers in Dublin in 1916. Surely this would have had an effect on later activites in the area ?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Interesting, I've seen the same. And what about Galway, under the leadership of Liam Mellowes, it was one of the few places outside Dublin to attempt to support the volunteers in Dublin in 1916. Surely this would have had an effect on later activites in the area ?

That actually appears to have led to less action in the south-east Galway region as following the rising a large percentage of men from the area were imprisoned which led to much suffering for their families.... They werent keen on putting their wives and children through that again. Most fighting in Galway ended up taking place in the north and west of the county. But again its hard to tell to what extent because of the differing accounts on the struggle in Connacht.

brianthebard

Michael Farry's books on Sligo might be a good starting point for some info on the war in Sligo. I imagine there would be a number of local history books out there which aren't that well known but which taken together could answer your questions op.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

brianthebard wrote: »

Michael Farry's books on Sligo might be a good starting point for some info on the war in Sligo. I imagine there would be a number of local history books out there which aren't that well known but which taken together could answer your questions op.

Thanks I'll have a look at those books if I can get my hands on a copy. I live near the Sligo border (and near the Roscommon one as well incidentally) so that would be of interest for my own area as well.

walrusgumble

Noel O'Gara (the late Mr O'Gara) is the main man on work in Connacht.

THere is a book (expensive) by Kathleen Hegarty called THey Put The Flag A Flying, based on the IRA in Roscommon and Parts of Mayo, during this period. THe book is well done (not sure well researched as I heard that she had to do a second edition and there were a few threats of legal action, but this often happens, and she clear shows her sources) The book attempts to profile as many volunteers as possible. Some attempt, considering many were dead. Its work at least looking at. Just ignore alot of usual Oirish American guff.

As ye know, Roscommon was the first county to return a Sinn Fein member in 1918. Many volunteers and leaders during the 1916-1923 campagin were originally Connacht men...., MacBride, Ceannt, MacDiarmiada, the Countess, Mellows........

The reality, at least as best I know, (from family tales) South Roscommon was very active (so was North Roscommon in places like Boyle & Castlerea), McCabe from Sligo kept those places busy, infact I believe some of the famous art work and photos of the IRA of those days that we are all familar with are based on Sligo & Mayo columns. The Roscommon county was nearly added to the martial law areas. Whilst it might not have been Kilmichael/Crossbarry elite, the work entailed blowing up bridges, custom huts, cutting telegraphs, the shooting of the odd RIC man and a fair bit of shooting of spies. The problem lay with its intelligence as it was no where near on par with say Florie O'Donoghue of Cork. More often than not, the columns went away frustrated that a patrol failed to turn up (tip off), so it was not for want of wishing to not fight. Another problem was the fact that the leaders were often picked for the wrong reasons, and were not good enough as military men. Another major problem was that the RIC and Tans were quiet successful early on in rounding up most of the potential troublemakers. Many from Roscommon visited the Curragh, Antrim and Mountjoy.

Sadly, (much to my grandfather's anger who saw his own father been on the run for 2 years and part of their home burned down by Tans, was the fact that Connacht, sadly, got more active when it involved fighting amongst themselves in the Civil War)

Some will blame poverty for failure to fight. My theory is that many were content with their lot after their success during the land war years. Didn't help when they felt isolated from Dublin, but, so was Cork and Tipperary, so thats hardly an excuse.

There are many headstones dedicated to those who lost their lives whilst in action. There are also many cermemonative monuments eg Shankhill Roscommon, centre of town in Athlone etc.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I had a look at They Put the Flag A'Flyin a few years ago but unfortunately don't have a copy of my own I must try and get a loan of it from somebody. Thanks for all of that info, makes a lot of sense.

Denerick

A quick scan of the statistics will tell you that Munster had the lions share of engagements, killings, reprisals and all of the rest. In my own research of the war in Co. Monaghan (Which is also well documented in Fearghal Mc Garry's excellent biography of Eoin O'Duffy) it became clear that practically every county in the land experienced 'the war', but to lesser degree's. For example, Monaghan had a few scandals of its own (A local Protestant woman who had refused to stop making poítin was eventually found dead with a note saying 'Executed by the IRA for being a spy and traitor) This kind of stuff happened in the most unlikely of places. In a county like Monaghan, traditional local grievances resulted in all sorts of wild, unsubstantiated accusations that occasionally resulted in death. These executions were locally derived, without either GHQ knowledge or approval. In a sense the war in some parts of the country descended into a kind of primitive anarchy, with local commanders exerting extraordinary influence.

Take the Belfast boycott for example. In some places this was rigorously enforced by the IRA, in others, not so much. A Protestant trader who broke the boycott would often see his own shop boycotted or thrashed, a Catholic trader would face a relatively modest fine. There were all sorts of inconsistencies that varied from county to county and town to town. The War of Independence still requires a lot of study and research as there are still many unanswered questions. There are quite a few good microhistories (David Fitzpatricks study of Co. Clare being one) around, but we could do with more.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Interestingly Peter Hart claims Monaghan was an IRA stronghold whereas a documentary on the life of Eoin O'Duffy I seen on RTE claimed the exact opposite.

walrusgumble

Denerick wrote: »

A quick scan of the statistics will tell you that Munster had the lions share of engagements, killings, reprisals and all of the rest. In my own research of the war in Co. Monaghan (Which is also well documented in Fearghal Mc Garry's excellent biography of Eoin O'Duffy) it became clear that practically every county in the land experienced 'the war', but to lesser degree's. For example, Monaghan had a few scandals of its own (A local Protestant woman who had refused to stop making poítin was eventually found dead with a note saying 'Executed by the IRA for being a spy and traitor) This kind of stuff happened in the most unlikely of places. In a county like Monaghan, traditional local grievances resulted in all sorts of wild, unsubstantiated accusations that occasionally resulted in death. These executions were locally derived, without either GHQ knowledge or approval. In a sense the war in some parts of the country descended into a kind of primitive anarchy, with local commanders exerting extraordinary influence.

Take the Belfast boycott for example. In some places this was rigorously enforced by the IRA, in others, not so much. A Protestant trader who broke the boycott would often see his own shop boycotted or thrashed, a Catholic trader would face a relatively modest fine. There were all sorts of inconsistencies that varied from county to county and town to town. The War of Independence still requires a lot of study and research as there are still many unanswered questions. There are quite a few good microhistories (David Fitzpatricks study of Co. Clare being one) around, but we could do with more.

Aye McGarry's book of the General is excellent. I agree that there are still angles (honest, and not all Peter Harte like) to deal with the war. TG4 recently aired a long awaited documentary on the Limerick Soviet during the war. Might be worth remembering too, that the big boys of history are Munster people, or at least have strong connections; eg Media Ryan, Rwyle T Dwyer....... (sounds petty doesn't it)

paky

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Its universally agreed that Munster was the most active region in the war but different books I have read appear to have different information on Connacht particularly Mayo. Some claim the county saw little action while others suggest it was a hotbed of activity. Roscommon also suffers from this to a certain degree. Does anyone know why there is inconsistency amongst different studies on this?

i think activity was based on the leadership at the time. it wasnt until there was a change in the leadership of the mayo ira that there was an escalation in violence. there was a leadership change in the 1920s. im not sure though. i think it was mick kilroy filling in for? i'll find out

paky

there was a leadership chnge in jan 1921 and michael kilroy took over from tom darrig. it was from then on that things escalated.

Denerick

paky wrote: »

i think activity was based on the leadership at the time.

I would say that this was almost entirely the case. Longford was a bastion of activity because Séan Mac Eoin had a genius for armed conflict. The saliant question to ask would be why Westmeath or any adjacent county was not.

kerryman12

interesting read guys

johnny_doyle

I have a copy of a 1929 book by Lottie McManus called White Light and Flame which touches on Mayo and Ireland wide War of Independence issues and thoughts. Some good info but light on real detail. What jolts though is the style of writing. Very different from what we would expect today.

paky

johnny_doyle wrote: »

I have a copy of a 1929 book by Lottie McManus called White Light and Flame which touches on Mayo and Ireland wide War of Independence issues and thoughts. Some good info but light on real detail. What jolts though is the style of writing. Very different from what we would expect today.

is it possible to get a copy of it anywhere?

johnny_doyle

paky wrote: »

is it possible to get a copy of it anywhere?

my copy came via ebay. Not sure where else there might be copies unfortunately. There is a snippet online re Sean Corcoran who was in Lincoln prison at the time of Dev's escape.

http://www.mayomemorialpeacepark.org/articles/townlands/kiltimagh/Kiltimagh%20Life%20&%20Times.pdf

deise go deo

Denerick wrote: »

I would say that this was almost entirely the case. Longford was a bastion of activity because Séan Mac Eoin had a genius for armed conflict. The saliant question to ask would be why Westmeath or any adjacent county was not.

The activity in a given place depended almost entirely on the local leadership.
Other factors like the Local British commander's actions and the spirit of the local people did have an influence, but it seams that the main factor that made Cork so successful was their leadership.

If we take an example from a different area, Waterford, we can see the difference leadership can make.
In Waterford there were two brigades, West Waterford and East Waterford.
West Waterford under the command of Pax Whelan and George Lennon was a relatively active brigade, they carried out several successful Ambushes and raids.
East Waterford on the other hand, though it was only a few miles down the road was in a different state all together with very little action taking place. This was mainly down to the leadership. Paddy Paul, the Commander of the brigade was trying to make his brigade more active, but his subordinates were not very co-operative, they were the sort that taught planning operations was good enough.
After a while they did get around to planning a real ambush. By then East Waterford was considered a safe area by the British. This was the Tramore Ambush, an action that went badly wrong. The commander in charge Paddy Paul had never planned a large scale operation and made several mistakes were made, and several IRA men got killed.

Their was an attempt to oust Paddy Paul as brigade commander by his subordinates(He still expected them to carry on the fight, something they were not happy with). GHQ would have none of it, In the end East Waterford was so bad that GHQ had to hold an investigation into the Brigade. but it further weakened the brigade. Paddy Paul assembled his men at their arms dump in Kilmeaden and went to join the West Waterford Column with 9 men and all the Rifles the East Waterford brigade had. After that there were no more atempts to carry out anything more than nuisance actions(digging trenches etc) in East Waterford. By the end of the War, East and West Waterford were merged into one Brigade under the command of the West Brigade's Officers.
The officer's in the East brigade who were responsible for the Brigades poor record broke away from GHQ and set up their own faction.

There was very little difference between the two brigades before the war, they both faced detachments of the same British Unit, the East had slightly less men, but the real difference was the quality of their leadership.

While the West Waterford Brigade became active relatively late(Autumn 1920) Once they started taking the fight to the British they were determined to see the War through to the end and kept up planning and carrying out operations against the British despite their lack of Arms and Ammunition.
In the East however, the brigade officers seamed more content to fight amongst themselves than to bother the British.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

West and East Connemara seem to fit the same trend and so do West and East Mayo from what I can see.

the wests awake

The claim that Galway was active during the war of independence is mostly wafflle. That fact that such a huge county could not not even stage some kind of resistance is farcical. Mayo and Roscommon were without any doubt by far the most active counties in connacht if not the country. The county of mayo experienced some high profile incidents during the war. Also there were exceptional IRA leaders in Mayo in Mayo such as Michael Kilroy and Tom Maguire. Kilroy led a group of volunteers to a huge success at carrowkennedy killing 13 black and tans, whilst Maguire held off a huge force of british soldiers at tourmakeady wounding over 50. Roscommon was also to the fore in the west with leaders such as Pat Madden leading the succesful ambush a Scramogue. There were numerous other ambushes in roscommon such as fourmile house, ratra and keadue. Roscommon was also known for executing a large number of spies.

Duckworth_Luas

I recall reading (on Politics.ie maybe) that after Dublin, Cork and Tipperary, the county with the most engagements in the War of Independence was Roscommon.

sarahisainmdom

This is a very useful book for getting information on Roscommon during the war:

"For Ireland And Freedom - Roscommon's Contribution To The Fight For Independence" by Micheál O'Callaghan.

At the end it states that the last shot of the War Of Independence was fired in Castlerea (County Roscommon). Just thought that was interesting. It also says it here on wikipedia (at the end of the 'History' paragraph) but you can't trust everything you read on that. :rolleyes: