When does "art" become porn?

Richard Dower

9 Songs is an obvious example, Lie With Me is another....Shortbus, Kids. There have been a number of films in recent years that have edged closer and closer to what most people would consider pornography.

We had explicit movies in the past, Last Tango In Paris, 9 1/2 Weeks etc. The Brown Bunny went further, and Lie With Me + 9 Songs took it even further, with penetration and pop shots.

Or are we all just prudish?, or do film makers and actors quote "art" to defend a movie that has clearly jumped into the realm of porn, the lines continue to blur.

Me being a black and white personality it gets rather confusing

Sad Professor

Yeah, it's difficult to say. I mean, personally I wouldn't consider The Dreamers or Last Tango in Paris to be pornographic. But I do think any film which contains unsimulated sexual acts, such as 9 Songs and Brown Bunny, can definitely be considered pornographic to some extent. Whether they can also be considered art is another thing. Art is really in the eye of the beholder though. All sorts of potentially ridiculous things are considered art.

Galvasean

9 Songs isn't art. It's a load of bollocks.

Professey Chin

All porn is art.
This way I dont look like a complete pervert in my own head :pac:

roashter

Monsters Ball is another one that comes to mind.
It was actually a very good film, but there was a scene in it that could have come straight from a porn film.
Halle Berry got an oscar for it and all...

S.M.B.

I wouldn't say the boundary lies in whether the sexual acts are simulated or not. I'd put it more down to the motives behind why the sexual act was expressed in the first place.

In saying that, this means a film like American Pie would be considered more pornographic than the likes of Kids or The Dreamers which is true enough in a way imo.

Richard Dower

^ well i admit i didn't understand where the line was, what constitutes art as opposed to porn, but after watching the Dutch tv movie LelleBelle i may have a better understanding.

LelleBelle was very sexually explicit, to the point you saw penetration, erect penis and blatant shots of a female vagina/labia, but....in the CONTEXT of the movie i personally don't consider what i saw to be porn, as most of us understand it, and erotic movie or so-called "softcore" it may be.

But even then LelleBelle imo is not an erotic movie either, not in the context of movies you'd see on Playboy or Cinemax, it's about sexual awakening of a girl starting out on her journey in life, exploring her sexuality for the first time.

So in that sense i guess it really is about purpose and context.

Mickeroo

SHortbus is a great movie.

9 songs is absolute crap, and for the love of dog don't ever try and watch Destricted. Dull and boring would be more apt than erotic. Pratentious ****, if you'll pardon the pun.

mike65

That people have this discussion every so often merely illustrates how "restricted" our understanding of creativity, art and porn is. There is no defined boundary - a film can be neither, one, other or both. Just stick an 18 cert on it and move on.

Eirebear

I cant believe Kids is getting a mention in this thread, seriously.

Anyone who gets turned on by that film has serious issues! If anything it is the antithesis of "porn", if i had seen it as a teenager i would certainly have thought twice about any sexual contact!

Nevyn

I would say is the sex gratuitous or not. If it's just there for titillation then it's porn if it's there for plot or char development reasons then it's not porn.

One example of that is the orgasm scene in shortbus, is it there to show a good looking woman having sex and orgasming to turn people on or it is part of a greater narrative.
Sex can happen in movies/film and be off screen and still impact and be part of the story. If it's being show in detail or sim/unsim then if it's part of the greater narrative. then imho it's not porn.

Dawwwg

I think it comes down to whether the director of the film had intended its audience to be stroking the one eyed gopher while watching it or not! :P

--LOS--

when you fast forward a lot in the movie :pac:

when there's more real sex as opposed to simulated sex?

when the acting is bad?

something like diary of a nymphomaniac has a high sexual content but I wouldn't consider it porn.

BopNiblets

--LOS-- wrote: »

when you fast forward a lot in the movie :pac:

Ha! Brilliant.

paulosham

If we are talking about film it's when the sex doesn't help advance the plot or tell you something about the characters and their relationship to each other. I would say Brown Bunny = Porn , Monster's Ball = Not Porn

unreggd

:P


Porn is in the eye of the beholder!

OutlawPete

One film which I haven't even seen discussed (then I do avoid all talk of movies before I see them, so I may have missed it) was Año Bisiesto (Leap Year).

Seen it in the cinema two weeks back now and thought it was a stunningly beautiful film. It was quite low budget but the story was very touching, the acting was superb and despite being a very slow paced film, it was utterly engrossing.

There are many shocking scenes in it: both violent and sexual.

However, one scene which was the first of it's kind that I have ever seen at least, was "golden shower" scene after a particularity violent moment. I really was not expecting it all and nearly chocked on my Werther's Original so I did.

It's a terrific film and I would highly recommend it if you think you can tolerate the scene in question. I kind of wish the scene wasn't in it (or at least just implied) as for some audiences it might distract from just how superb the film actually is.

Dues Bellator

Money shot = porn if you ask me , everything else = art

FloatingVoter

When I'm caught **** to it, it may be porn..when I'm not caught, it's more than likely art.

omahaid

If I've a horn then it's porn - that's my definition anyway

L'prof

omahaid wrote: »

If I've a horn then it's porn - that's my definition anyway

Never been hungover???

Dues Bellator

FloatingVoter wrote: »

When I'm caught **** to it, it may be porn..when I'm not caught, it's more than likely art.

WHEN!!!!! you make that sound like its a regular thing getting caught . omg my worse nightmare.:D

omahaid

L'prof wrote: »

Never been hungover???

I'm hungover right now, thanks for asking

FloatingVoter

almanu wrote: »

WHEN!!!!! you make that sound like its a regular thing getting caught . omg my worse nightmare.:D

I watch a lot of art :rolleyes: