Sporting rivalries; hate your neighbour?

drkpower

In a recent discussion with a Leinster supporter, he spoke of how he wanted to see Munster do badly this year. I asked his son, also a Leinster supporter and about 14 y.o. who he would prefer to win if Munster were playing, lets say, Stade Francais in the Heineken Cup Final. He wanted Stade to win. When I questioned them both on why they wanted the team from 'down the road' to lose, they were taken aback and felt it to be a perfectly 'natural' state of affairs.

Obviously this phenomenon of 'hating' your neighbouring team exists over almost every sport you care to mention. But I have always found it to be a very unnatural & illogical view.

In most other spheres, our usual instinct is to support our locality, our neighbours; you usually want them to do well and even if you dont (for whatever reason;)), it would be socially frowned upon to actually admit you actively want your neighbour to fail; yet in sports, it is practically a necessity

So can anyone enlighten me as to whether there is any real reason for it, any logic to it or even justify it?

(and dont get me wrong, this is not about the 'friendly' rivalry and ribbing that goes along with supporting a sports team; this is specific to the active dislike many (not all) sports fans have to a neighbouring team to the point of wanting them to fail miserably at every opportunity)

Mods: i have chosen not to put this in any sports forum as it is an issue that spans every sport - please move if you think it should be somewhere else.

galwayrush

I always support the neighbours if we're not playing, excpt for Mayo of course because it's funny when they lose.:D

TeddyTedson

I support Engerland when we don't qualify. If we do though they're the old enemy

stovelid

Extending the hand of understanding and compassion to your sporting rivals is gay.

Only somebody that doesn't really understand sport would ever think otherwise.

drkpower

stovelid wrote: »

Extending the hand of understanding and compassion to your sporting rivals is gay.

Only somebody that doesn't really understand sport would ever think otherwise.

Enlighten me then; thats the express purpose of the thread!:(

starbelgrade

drkpower wrote: »

Enlighten me then; thats the express purpose of the thread!:(

Enlightening other people is gay too.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

I've never seen this, although Mayo always beat galway (:D) if one of the neighbouring counties one then they would be backed.

Obviously connaught ain't as great at rugby but an Irish side would always be backed

red menace

It's the same everywhere
Currently living in Edmonton (go Oilers!!) every one here hates Calgary(3 hours down the road) with a passion

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Its particularly confusing in my area as I live near Ballaghaderreen. Ballagh was once in Mayo but is now in Roscommon but is still part of Mayo for GAA purposes. So support in the town is split.

parker kent

Sport is about doing better than somebody else, getting the bragging rights etc. If you can't do better and brag, you don't want the knobs nearest to you bragging!

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Its particularly confusing in my area as I live near Ballaghaderreen. Ballagh was once in Mayo but is now in Roscommon but is still part of Mayo for GAA purposes. So support in the town is split.

Thats a f*cked up part of the country tbh, it doesn't know where it is. They even play hurling in some supposedly mayo towns there ffs :eek:

stovelid

drkpower wrote: »

Enlighten me then; thats the express purpose of the thread!:(

For those who understand no explanation is necessary; for those who do not understand no explanation is possible.

Gavin "shels"

drkpower wrote: »

In a recent discussion with a Leinster supporter, he spoke of how he wanted to see Munster do badly this year. I asked his son, also a Leinster supporter and about 14 y.o. who he would prefer to win if Munster were playing, lets say, Stade Francais in the Heineken Cup Final. He wanted Stade to win. When I questioned them both on why they wanted the team from 'down the road' to lose, they were taken aback and felt it to be a perfectly 'natural' state of affairs.

Go back a few months, Manchester Utd (English) playing a League of Ireland selection of players 'from down the road' (now bear in mind there was more Irish born players in that whole squad than the actual Irish national side:rolleyes:), guess who the majority of the 30,000 Oirish people in Lansdowne were up for?

drkpower

stovelid wrote: »

For those who understand no explanation is necessary; for those who do not understand no explanation is possible.

Lol:D
What sort of nonsense is that?! Would it fly in any other discourse? Of course not.

If there is an actual explanation, it should be reasonably straightforward to explain.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Kaylie Defeated Falconer wrote: »

Thats a f*cked up part of the country tbh, it doesn't know where it is. They even play hurling in some supposedly mayo towns there ffs :eek:

They play hurling in most areas of Mayo now... Even Belmullet has a hurling. Amazingly there are now young fellas in my village who play hurling but not football.

drkpower

Gavin shels wrote: »

Go back a few months, Manchester Utd (English) playing a League of Ireland selection of players 'from down the road' (now bear in mind there was more Irish born players in that whole squad than the actual Irish national side:rolleyes:), guess who the majority of the 30,000 Oirish people in Lansdowne were up for?

I hear you but this isnt really about that other phenomenon about supporting 'foregin' teams; thats why i chose Leinster/M unster as an example. The exact same thing applies to a guy from Birmingham who viscerally hates Aston Villa......why?

drkpower

parker kent wrote: »

Sport is about doing better than somebody else, getting the bragging rights etc. If you can't do better and brag, you don't want the knobs nearest to you bragging!

I suspect that is a big part of the reason; but it cant be the whole answer.

The 14yo kid i talked about in the OP probably dpesnt have any mates or relations from Munster, so for him, it isnt about bragging rights. Or at least not bragging against anyone he knows.

Gavin "shels"

drkpower wrote: »

I hear you but this isnt really about that other phenomenon about supporting 'foregin' teams; thats why i chose Leinster/M unster as an example. The exact same thing applies to a guy from Birmingham who viscerally hates Aston Villa......why?

Exact same as why I hate Shamrock Rovers, Bohs and for that matter any other LoI club, it's about passion, rivalry, winning, god only knows what else, you can't explain it I suppose you. Rugby is a lot more of a "posh" sport though, rivalry, and that wouldn't be as fierce imo.

parker kent

drkpower wrote: »

Lol:D
What sort of nonsense is that?! Would it fly in any other discourse? Of course not.

If there is an actual explanation, it should be reasonably straightforward to explain.

Is it reasonably straight forward to explain the beauty of great art? Or to explain love? Or to explain the joy that reading a book brings? No it is not, people can describe them well, but they will never explain it fully as it cannot be explained.

That poster was referring to how people that like sport inherently understand sporting rivalries. It is natural and needs no explanation. It just simply is. People that do not like sport often never understand. It is like trying to impress upon somebody why you find something funny. You never can explain it, you just simply find it funny. Me hating the Dublin football team is much the same!

drkpower

Gavin shels wrote: »

Exact same as why I hate Shamrock Rovers, Bohs and for that matter any other LoI club, it's about passion, rivalry, winning, god only knows what else, you can't explain it I suppose you. .

Hating every rival equally i can understand, because they are all direct rivals to your team. I can also understand hating a team that winsa ll the time, because it makes you recognise your own teams failings.

But the hatred for the neighbouring team is usually far far worse than the hatred for another team from further afield; and the hatred for the neighbouring team can be just as acute even if they are brutal ......

Agricola

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Neighbouring teams are, in every sport Id imagine, the ones that play each other the most often. In Ireland they are the team from the next parish or the next town, or the next county. They nearly always compete for the same trophies in the same competitions. Its natural enough that a healthy dislike of your rivals would arise!
Of course, a lot of it is tradition and the conditioning of children from a young age. If you grow up listening to your parents and peers always bad mouthing the local rivals, the likelihood is you will do it yourself.

drkpower

parker kent wrote: »

Is it reasonably straight forward to explain the beauty of great art? Or to explain love? Or to explain the joy that reading a book brings? No it is not, people can describe them well, but they will never explain it fully as it cannot be explained.

That poster was referring to how people that like sport inherently understand sporting rivalries. It is natural and needs no explanation. It just simply is. People that do not like sport often never understand. It is like trying to impress upon somebody why you find something funny. You never can explain it, you just simply find it funny. Me hating the Dublin football team is much the same!

I love sport, and understand all most of the emotions that go with it. So dont go down the 'you dont understand because you dont understand sport' line with me!

And there has been no attempt to explain the phenomenon thus far. If someone had tried to do so and i just couldnt 'get it', perhapss your thesis would have some merit. But simply stating that it is 'unexplainable' is a cop out. Without wanting to elevate the nature of this topic to a seriousness it doesnt deserve, if i used the same reasoning for hating certain people rather than a certain team, i would be laughed out of the joint; or banned perhaps!

drkpower

Agricola wrote: »

Familiarity breeds contempt.

That's probably the best explanation ive heard; but it doesnt fully answer it. For instance, in American Football, teams from the same city retain an often massive dislike for one another even though they actually dont play in the same division and might only play each other once every few years. So the 'familiarity' expanation doesnt fully do it.

Risteard

I don't particularly hate Leinster but at the same time I wouldn't cheer for them if they were in a final either. Though I did like to see them win that Heineken Cup against Leicester as they've a lot of great players and it would have been a shame if they never got a medal.

Though the 5 in a row has been kind of annoying.

Dangerous Man

As a Leinster fan I support Munster so long as they're not playing against Leinster. I hate the attitude of a lot of fans who seem to think that it's the done thing to hate 'the other team.' They're just ignorant black pigs - or rats.

parker kent

drkpower wrote: »

I love sport, and understand all of the emotions that go with it. So dont go down the 'you dont understand because you dont understand sport' line with me!

And there has been no attempt to explain the phenomenon thus far. If someone had tried to do so and i just couldnt 'get it', perhapss your thesis would have some merit. But simply stating that it is 'unexplainable' is a cop out. Without wanting to elevate the nature of this topic to a seriousness it doesnt deserve, if i used the same reasoning for hating certain people rather than a certain team, i would be laughed out of the joint; or banned perhaps!

There have been lots of practical reasons given. You replied to one of my reasons. Some other posters have provided many logical reasons why it exists. And if you still don't get it, then you will never get it.

some_dose

As a Munster fan, I have absolutely nothing against Leinster, Connacht or Ulster.......until we are playing them. After the match though, I'd gladly support any Irish side and would want them to do well.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Gavin shels wrote: »

Go back a few months, Manchester Utd (English) playing a League of Ireland selection of players 'from down the road' (now bear in mind there was more Irish born players in that whole squad than the actual Irish national side:rolleyes:), guess who the majority of the 30,000 Oirish people in Lansdowne were up for?

Game is gay, so I'll say 'The Gay'er side?.. (obviously ManU)

So the topic is Rugby (kinda)..

I'd support the home side against an oversea's side any day, no question.

drkpower

parker kent wrote: »

There have been lots of practical reasons given. You replied to one of my reasons. Some other posters have provided many logical reasons why it exists. And if you still don't get it, then you will never get it.

And ive explained that while some of those arguments have merit, they dont actually fully explain the phenomenon.

The 'if you still dont get it, you will never get it' or the 'if you understood sport, you'd know' arguements are just nonsense. There are a number of fans of teams here who themselves have said they have nothing against rival teams and want them to do well (as long as they arent playing their own team, obviously). Do they not 'get it' either'? Do none of these peoiple 'understand sport' the way you do?

Come on; you can do better than that!:D

Jesus Wept

The sports team from my area is superior to the sports team from your area.

Micky Dolenz

Moved from AfterHours

[Jackass]

It's a very simple premise.

Take Manchster united and Manchester city.

Now, go into just about any office, factory, supermarket, post office etc. etc. and you'll find a lad there who supports Manchester city and a lad who supports Manchester united.

Now add lads and banter to the mix.

Then you have a result of "ahhh we beat you 5 - 0 last night!!" or "Who cares if you beat us, we've won x amount of champions leagues and are on for the double this season" etc. etc. and you then have the result of sports fans and rivalry.

Without rivalry, sport is a very very dull place. Imagine your rugby or football team jst played random sides from small Croatian or Polish towns every weekend, places you've never even heard of... it would be slightly less exciting than playing the old enemy where there's a history and scores to settle and players who hate each other, and everything at stake, such as the obligatory fist fight between players at every Munster v Leinster game...it's what sport is all about. Without that passion and rivalry, sport is nothing.

And, as a Leinster fan in particular, Leinster fans will often not enjoy Munster winning for a couple of reasons that some Munster fans might not understand.

1/ You'll find very few Dubs / Leinster men who make the move south to Munster.
2/ The population of Dublin is about 1.5million and I'd be very surprised if 1 million of those people were from Dublin. I'd say it's a lot closer to 750,000 people, if even.
3/ That's a lot of Munster fans, amongst others, living in Dublin & Leinster, so the crack and rivalry in Dublin, as the "hub" of the country where plenty of people from every single county in Ireland, let alone every single country in Europe, live means that it's much more of a day to day thing.
4/ Leinster fans took the years of abuse off Munster fans and the condecending tone of Munster men for a long time, so you can be sure that now that it's Leinsters time, it'll be given back 10 fold. Every dog has their day, but I think Munster fans might be regretting their little bit of success they had over the next decade and beyond!!

And there you have sport. There's a lot more at stake when it's local.

hinault

Kilkenny/Tipperary rivalry in hurling.

Tipp/Clare in 1990's was venomous (on the part of the Clare folks, I might add).

hinault

[Jackass] wrote: »

Without rivalry, sport is a very very dull place. Imagine your rugby or football team jst played random sides from small Croatian or Polish towns every weekend, places you've never even heard of... it would be slightly less exciting than playing the old enemy where there's a history and scores to settle and players who hate each other, and everything at stake, such as the obligatory fist fight between players at every Munster v Leinster game...it's what sport is all about. Without that passion and rivalry, sport is nothing.

And, as a Leinster fan in particular, Leinster fans will often not enjoy Munster winning for a couple of reasons that some Munster fans might not understand.

1/ You'll find very few Dubs / Leinster men who make the move south to Munster.
2/ The population of Dublin is about 1.5million and I'd be very surprised if 1 million of those people were from Dublin. I'd say it's a lot closer to 750,000 people, if even.
3/ That's a lot of Munster fans, amongst others, living in Dublin & Leinster, so the crack and rivalry in Dublin, as the "hub" of the country where plenty of people from every single county in Ireland, let alone every single country in Europe, live means that it's much more of a day to day thing.
4/ Leinster fans took the years of abuse off Munster fans and the condecending tone of Munster men for a long time, so you can be sure that now that it's Leinsters time, it'll be given back 10 fold. Every dog has their day, but I think Munster fans might be regretting their little bit of success they had over the next decade and beyond!!

And there you have sport. There's a lot more at stake when it's local.

I am a Dub living in Tipperary and I've got to say the rugby rivalry is pretty good natured stuff down here.

The amount of Munster fans who went out of their way to congratulate me on
Leinsters European title was huge.
For years they saw me sitting in the pub watching another dumping out of the HEC so fair dues to them they were happy for me when Leinster won the HEC.

I'm not ashamed to say I gave Munster my full support when they played in the HEC - except when it came to playing Leinster.

When Dublin beat Tipp in an All Ireland though:D