shotgun fit

declan1980

hey lads, do any of ye know any gun dealers that can measure you for the correct fit for a shotgun?
everyone goes on about having a shotgun that fits, but i have never heard a gun dealer even mention it.
i know myself when a gun feels right, and what i think the sight picture should look like but how do i know if this is actually right?

Chopperdog 2

Checkout Courtlough Shooting Grounds.

All guns are fitted to you and you have the advantage of being able to try out guns on site before deciding whether to purchase.

Rosahane

Simple test is to stand in front of a big mirror with (unloaded - check!) gun. Stare into your reflection, close both your eyes and quickly mount the gun aiming at where you think your eyes are in the mirror - freeze - then open your eyes. If you are looking straight down the rib to the two barrells looking straight back at you the gun is a reasonable fit

declan1980

Rosahane wrote: »

Simple test is to stand in front of a big mirror with (unloaded - check!) gun. Stare into your reflection, close both your eyes and quickly mount the gun aiming at where you think your eyes are in the mirror - freeze - then open your eyes. If you are looking straight down the rib to the two barrells looking straight back at you the gun is a reasonable fit

cheers i'll give that a go

Dupont

i was told that if u hold the gun straight up with one hand with the stock on the inside of your elbow and your finger reaches the trigger

FISMA

Declan,
First, make sure that you shoulder the firearm properly. I often notice shooters "scrunching" their body and then trying to shoulder their weapon. That's the exact opposite that you'll see competitive shooters doing before a shot.

Consider a right handed shooter. Without a firearm, place your right hand horizontal to the ground, perpendicular to the body, and inline with the chest. Put your left hand where the stock will sit. Move your right arm back and then forwards (as if you are pointing forward) -that's the motion you want to make in order to cradle the shotgun with your body.

That is, open the shoulder, seat the stock, and then close. You don't want to close the shoulder and then try to seat the stock - this will be inconsistent and shot placement will suffer.

Watch high end shooters before they set. You will often see them (right hand shooters) point the firearm up and to the right (opening the shoulder) and then bringing the firearm back to point (closing the shoulder).

Sorry if that's long winded.

With that said, with the firearm now correctly shouldered, have a look at the rail and the beads. You should not be able to see the rail on the barrel sloping up, neither should it be sloping down. If either occur, shims should be used.

If you have two beads, they should be inline, and the smaller(closer) should ideally be superimposed on the larger. If either are higher or lower, shims should be used.

Not sure about "windage" so to speak - if either bead is left or right. That could be a shouldering issue - not sure.

Most shooters that miss at the trap and skeet range shoot high and/or behind the target. Whenever I ask them if they can see the rail, more often than not they say yes. Makes sense that if you can see the rail sloping up, then you'll overshoot the target.

Good question. Would like to see a thread on this topic. Too many people never bother with fit at all.

Double Barrel

Hunters and shooters spend their hard earned money on guns and other equipment and rarely consider whether or not their guns fit them. A great many shooters use a gun of poor fit and some may even shoot it reasonably well. Unfortunately, most will never shoot that gun to the best of their ability. In fact, many shooting instructors have advised that a poorly fitted shotgun is the single greatest factor behind missed birds.

My favorite description of a fitted gun is one that points where your eyes are looking when all you do is raise it to your cheek without moving your head. Making it point where you look is the fitter’s job; raising it to your cheek, to the same place time after time after time without moving your head, is your job.

Consistency is even more important to a gunfitter, particularly when it comes to mounting the gun.
First, you must find out where your gun is currently shooting. You can check for your gun's point of impact in several ways, but a proper pattern plate is best. Point of impact is where that shot cloud hits in relation to where you are aiming. It is NOT patterning. Testing for point of impact is dynamic .... you must actually shoot the gun.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055286716&highlight=pattern+plate

A couple of well written articles on the essentials of shotgun patterning - by Peter Blakeley and Dr Matt Draisma.

http://www.peteblakeley.com/pdf/pattern.pdf

The new link works:

http://www.ssaa.org.au/stories/shotguns-essential-shotgun-patterning.html

Double Barrel

The dynamics of shooting the game gun require that the shooter focus on the target rather than the gun. For this reason, unlike a rifle used on stationary targets, the shotgun has no sights, merely a small bead that acts as a point of reference in the shooters overall view of the moving target. To ensure a degree of consistent success it is necessary for the shooter to mount the gun with the bores aligned between the hands and under the eye. This must be done consistently on a variety of targets moving in many directions. To ensure this, a gun should be fitted to an individual shooter.

There are many compontents to gun fit: length of pull, LOP, drop at comb DOC, drop @ heel DOH, pitch and cast. Custom guns stocks have an added variable, cant, a slight twist in the stock to accommodate the shape of the shooters chest. This keeps the gun vertical.

Gun ftting seeks to achieve three basic dimensions. The length of the stock, the bend or drop of the stock relative to the top rib, and the cast. The latter is the set of the stock relative to the rib when viewed from above. It is very rarely dead straight, and is set either to the right of centre (known as cast-off) or to the left of centre (cast-on).
The stock length is always the first to be determined, as wrong length will distort the other two dimensions. The next is the bend, or drop. This affects how high or low the gun shoots when mounted correctly. Too much bend makes the gun shoot low, and vice versa. Too much bend can also mean the eye loses sight of the target behind the breech of the gun. This can cause all sorts of problems. This is why bend is always determined before cast. In order to sight a rifle, the shooter must lower his head to the level of the rear sight. In comparison, a shotgun does not have a rear sight for aligning the barrels to the target. In effect, the shot gunner’s eye is the rear sight. Depending on how the gun is mounted and where the face rests on the comb, the eye (or rear sight) can move around quite a bit. The result is a misaligned sight picture. Because of the relationship between cheek and eye most people need a degree of cast, either off or on depending from which shoulder they shoot.

A modern gun fitters try gun stock:

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clivej

Good reading there Double Barrel, those two links provided me with good reference to start from.
I'm getting a Beretta 391 so need to read up as much as I can now before the license come through.

Cheers.

Double Barrel

Make sure you never ever loose visual contact with a flying target (feather or clay)...eye contact is your only connection to a target.

Time and money is best spent by working with a good instructor who can identify problems before you look for solutions....because you may be looking for solutions to problems that do not exist.

Best of luck with your new Beretta Clive. Check your PM's

FISMA

Declan,
I am advocate of shouldering as many shotguns as you can. True, you can get technical about it, however, even with measurements, you may find that there are styles of stocks that you prefer: English, pistol grip, ...

It kind of reminds me when a friend of mine and myself were buying rather expensive bicycles. He went paid some money to get fitted and went on a gizmo as shown below

Funds were tight for me so I spent all of my money on the bike and tried out a dozen or so bicycles. They ran his numbers and told him the fit that should be best for him. He went with it and still regrets it to this day.

Fit is both technical and personal. The adjustable stock shown in an above previous post is a great for the technical, but don't forget the personal aspect. If the stock does not feel right, then it probably isn't.

Double Barrel wrote: »

Make sure you never ever loose visual contact with a flying target (feather or clay)...eye contact is your only connection to a target.

In general, I agree. However, there are times when you need to cover the clay and pull the trigger. A shot that comes right to you and shot almost overhead - cover the clay, loose sight, and pull the trigger.

Again, in general, 99% of the time, keep your eye on the target. This is why I always shoot shotgun with two eyes open.

Double Barrel wrote: »

Time and money is best spent by working with a good instructor who can identify problems before you look for solutions....because you may be looking for solutions to problems that do not exist.

So true. Find a good instructor and pay a few euro for a lesson. Also, watch the good shooters. You'll learn more from these two methods than all the internet ideas combined.

Finally, keep your cheek on the stock. For right handed shooters, shots that go from right to left are easier than from left to right. That's because when a right handed shooter follows from the left to the right (towards end of swing) the stock comes off their cheek - hence the line of sight is messed up. Have a look at the score sheets for a round of trap and you will see that right handed shooters more often make the first station and miss on the last.

declan1980

cheers for all the advice lads. i'll try those shouldering tips when i go looking at a few guns.
just on a side note, can ye recommend a good dual purpose gun for both rough shooting and clays. i'll mostly be rough shooting with it, but i'd love to be able to bust a few clays for fun without worrying about my barrels heating up.