Aircraft vs Heli vs Bike engines - difference?

mstq

Howdy

Could someone simply tell me what is the difference between aircraft, heli and (moto)bike engines? How are they different?

I tried to find some infos about airplane / heli engines, but all i got is bits of infos of airplane engines (for cessnas that is). such as they have 50 hp, 6000-7000 rpms etc. How is it for helis?

Could motobike engine (up to 12k rpms, 150hp) be used in a heli or aircraft?

Cheers.

someday2010

im no expert but airplane engines fall into 2 main categories fans and propellers basically fans work by sucking in air compressing the hell out of it adding some fuel resulting in a mass of hot gas rushing out the back and providing the thrust/force to move the plane forward, propellers run like car engines except they are connected to a propeller which acts like a wing sideways creating the force to move the plane and the same with a helo it connects to a rotating propellor as well

Ho chi feen

The biggest differences are the air to fuel mixture.

BostonB

I assume you've seen this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui9RZ01jnDg&feature=related

mstq

So you could use motorbike engine to proper a plane or heli, correct?

Also, I've read, that even thou engines do eg. 6k rpms, they are being brought down, by "some mechanism". Is this, because the engines don't produce enought power?

@BostonB - long time ago and not true ;d

What i'm looking towards is building a small heli or huge rc. Tried to find rc that allows me to carry a dslr cameras attached on it and either i'd have to spend thousands or i would have small one without dslr on it. Trying to figure out production of such on my own.

Planning to use Yamaha R1 (2000) engine. Figuring out the swashplate build. It's complicated Y_Y

All help welcome ;d

BostonB

How about a Diesel Plane
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/04/diesel-airplane-sips-fuel-like-its-automotive-cousins/

BostonB

Theres a range of factors to consider. Power to weight, fuel economy, the cost of the engine, the complexity of the engine etc.

The number, size and type of engine used on a helicopter determines the size, function and capability of that helicopter design. The earliest helicopter engines were simple mechanical devices, such as rubber bands or spindles, which relegated the size of helicopters to toys and small models. For a half century before the first airplane flight, steam engines were used to forward the development of the understanding of helicopter aerodynamics, but the limited power did not allow for manned flight. The introduction of the internal combustion engine at the end of the 19th century became the watershed for helicopter development as engines began to be developed and produced that were powerful enough to allow for helicopters able to lift humans.
Early helicopter designs utilized custom-built engines or rotary engines designed for airplanes, but these were soon replaced by more powerful automobile engines and radial engines. The single, most-limiting factor of helicopter development during the first half of the 20th century was that the amount of power produced by an engine was not able to overcome the engine's weight in vertical flight. This was overcome in early successful helicopters by using the smallest engines available. When the compact, flat engine was developed, the helicopter industry found a lighter-weight powerplant easily adapted to small helicopters, although radial engines continued to be used for larger helicopters.
Turbine engines revolutionized the aviation industry, and the turboshaft engine finally gave helicopters an engine with a large amount of power and a low weight penalty. The turboshaft engine was able to be scaled to the size of the helicopter being designed, so that all but the lightest of helicopter models are powered by turbine engines today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter#Engines

BostonB

mstq wrote: »

...
@BostonB - long time ago and not true ;d...

Why not true?

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/03/05/motorcycle-engine-powered-airplanes/

http://www.vortechonline.com/choppy/
http://www.indianhelicopters.com/helicopter.htm
http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/adams_wilson_hobbycopter.php

BostonB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXaLC8h0WIk

http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/powerpla.htm

http://www.greatplainsas.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhSGVKerWRg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S22hONa3o8

BostonB

mstq wrote: »

...
What i'm looking towards is building a small heli or huge rc. Tried to find rc that allows me to carry a dslr cameras attached on it and either i'd have to spend thousands or i would have small one without dslr on it. Trying to figure out production of such on my own...

Would it not be easier just to build a microlight or something along those lines?

mstq

@bostonb:
"Long time ago and not true" means "yes i did...", eg.
a: didn't you dated that slut?
b: long time ago and not true

or

a: didn't you have a peugot 207?
b: long time ago and not true.

It can be also used to say "yes, but this is not the point", such as i used in regard to the video you posted.

BostonB

I have no idea what you are talking about. Theres more than one Boston on these forums.

I asked a simple question how the Y2K is not true? I expected why it wasn't true. Telling me its not true (again) explains nothing. Its a well known bike. Theres a ton of information about it on the web.

Ho chi feen

mstq wrote: »

What i'm looking towards is building a small heli or huge rc. Tried to find rc that allows me to carry a dslr cameras attached on it and either i'd have to spend thousands or i would have small one without dslr on it. Trying to figure out production of such on my own.

Have you seen A Chopper Is Born?
http://www.56.com/u15/v_MjYwMDcyNjA.html

xflyer

To answer the original question, if we're ignoring turbine engines which can be very small but very expensive, is not a lot. To give you a common example the Lycoming 0-320 engine is used both in helicopters and light aeroplanes. The Robinson R22 and the Cessna 172. You couldn't use in a motorcycle though, well you could but it would be a big bike. Horsepower is around 150 to 160. There are modern motorcycle engines that generate 150hp turning at over 12,000 rpm. The most common aircraft engines are low revving, rather old technology because above all reliability and low weight is required by aircraft. There's always a dual ignition systems mostly using magnetos. I don't think any motorcycles used magnetos since the thirties or forties.

But a better example is the Rotax series of engines used in a lot of microlight aircraft and light helicopters. That has powered motorcycles too.

But as you say you need a big RC therefore unmanned so absolute reliability isn't needed. So you can use any suitable lightweight engine. A 150hp motorcycle engine would be overkill. I'm sure something 50cc would do it. Maybe a chainsaw engine? As you mention though motorcycle engines rev very high. A typical light aircraft propellor would rev at 2300 during cruise. A helicopter rotor even less. So rpm has to be reduced.

I'm no engineer but you would need a fair bit of power to lift a typical DSLR. That's where your compromise has to be, the camera. Even to build it yourself it would be expensive as you would have to beef up all the components to compensate for the weight.

You have the perennial aircraft designer's problem, maximum power, minimum weight for max payload. That's expensive any way you look at it.

But even if you succeeded there's the issue of size and weight. You might have to register it as if it was a full size aircraft.

Nforce

http://www.diyphotography.net/photographer-rigs-a-canon-7d-to-an-rc-helicopter

BostonB

Would their not be issues getting permission to fly such a thing in Ireland?

FarmerGreen

mstq wrote: »

What i'm looking towards is building a small heli or huge rc. Tried to find rc that allows me to carry a dslr cameras attached on it and either i'd have to spend thousands or i would have small one without dslr on it. Trying to figure out production of such on my own.

All help welcome ;d

A DSLR only weighs about 16-20 ozs, so one of these should do
http://www.sigmfg.com/IndexText/SIGRC58ARFB.html