Seperation abroad - travel home with kids HELP!!!

LegacyUser

I hope someone can help or knows the answer to this!

My sister emigrated to Canada with her Husband and 2 children last year. She and her husband have seperated due to circumstances I won't get into on here. He is extremely unstable. She realised after getting advice from both her own and her husbands family back home (Ireland - they're all Irish) that she needed to leave with the kids as soon as she got a chance - without him knowing (he was being very threatening towards her and did not want her coming home with kids etc)

She "escaped" to some relatives in New York yesterday (New Years Day) She had a long gruelling journey on a bus (over 11 hours) with the kids and is now safe in the States, but exhausted and anxious to get home. She has since spoken to her husband and he has told her he has contacted the police in the USA and arranged for them to be stopped from taking their flight back to Ireland. Everyone (her family and his family and anyone that know the family) knows she needs to get home asap with the kids for their safety and security and to receive all the love and care they need so badly right now. Can he really stop them from leaving the US? He is not a Canadian or US citizen, nor is she or the kids. He is Irish and is actually illegally in Canada now that she has left the country. Surely a mother and her two children, 3 Irish citizens can't be legally stopped from returning to their home country? I've been googling like crazy and can only find stuff surrounding the legal issues of one spouse taking the children OUT of Ireland. I can find nothing about the legal issues surrounding one spouse wanting to take her children home without her husband?

Anyone any ideas or links to useful websites I should check out or any government department I shold contact. I am so worried. He is extremely unstable but very clever (has stripped every ounce of confidence from her, brainwased her and turned her into a very weak and vulnerable lady, she needs her family's support now more than ever and we just want to see the poor kids and giv them a big hug!) and may be following them as I type. She will be flying home with the children within the next 24 hours.

Is he just trying to scare her? (as usual!! He had told her before xmas he had their phone tapped to ensure she didn't talk to us about what was going on! He has also hidden her atm card and mobile phone lately so she has had no access to money or a phone that isn't tapped - as I mentioned he convinced her their house-phone was tapped so she wouldn't talk...luckily he forgot about her old aib laser card and her old irish phone and we were able to put money in her aib account and credit on her phone from here to enable her to get away while he was out ringing in the new year with his new woman)

Will the US police get involved seeing as none of them are US citizens or residents??

Cheap Thrills!

Do the kids have their own passports or are they on the parents passports?

If they have their own passports then I don't think he can stop her. Especially if he is illegally in Canada himself. She should point that out to him if he threatens her again.

Also the fact that his own family seem to be backing her up speaks volumes. The best thing she could try to do is get a flight home as soon as possible and then maybe report to a police station here.

He can come back, he knows where the kids are. So she's not doing anything wrong.

Firetrap

Wonder would it be worth making contact with a family law solicitor. Though where you'd raise one at the moment I've no idea seeing as it's a bank holiday weekend. Or perhaps if all else fails, it'd be no harm to contact a shelter where they have victims of domestic violence? They might be able to point her in the right direction?

tk123

He's bluffing I'd say - probably to buy himself some time. What has she got to lose by trying to board the flight - as long as she has family there for backup in case he's planning on stopping her at the airport?

amdublin

To be fair we're only getting one side of the story here.

On the other side there is a father whose children have been taken away from him.

Op - I think the wife should talk to a solicitor (Ireland and the US)

johnboysligo

Guest321 wrote: »

He had told her before xmas he had their phone tappe

Did he wipe his mouth with some toilet paper after he said that. It total bull**** no citizen ( legal or illegal) can tap a mobile phone it requires a warrant from a judge. He could have put a transmitter onto the phone itself but unless he dropped well over 500euro for a highly illegal device I really really really doubt she has anything to worry about.

Guest321 wrote: »

He has also hidden her atm card

If they have a joint account under both their names she can't do much but call the bank and explain some of the situation to the customer rep.

Guest321 wrote: »

Will the US police get involved seeing as none of them are US citizens or residents??

maybe but this guy probably lies though his nose about everything so i would doubt he would get the police involved because it would bring a lot of attention to his illegal resident status. Get your sister to call the irish embassy / consulate here is a link to their offices in new york website and ask them if she would be stopped from leaving the country.

Milkmaid

Hi OP, really sorry to hear what has happened..awful for everyone.
I just wanted to say that I was in similar situation in States...I sought legal advice and was told he could stop me leaving to come home to Ireland.
We were legal over there, but I was told that they come down heavy regardless because they will block you until they can make a judgement.....in fact they can do this across State lines..once a case is pending on movement of a minor then the child is restricted from being moved a certain distance..in my State it was 100miles.
I was told to take child on "holiday" to Ireland and just stay..something I felt was wrong to be honest.
Instead I persuaded my Ex to come home as well..he got help but we split up.
I knew I had to come home either way..child is all grown now
I have great sympathy for your sister..it is hell to be stuck with an unstable person so far from home.
Is there any way her OH could be persuaded to come home? Can her in-laws help? Mine were useless TBH

dan_d

Would it be any good to suggest contacting the US Embassy and asking them???
Or the Irish embassy in the States? At least somebody there who they could tell the story to, and who might be able to advise them??

LegacyUser

amdublin....There's really no need to waste your time pointing out the obvious, yes he's the childrens father, fathers have rights too, they're his kids too, blah blah, thank you! You don't know the situation, stop trying to judge an horrific situation that you know absolutely NOTHING about! If you knew the extent of the situation and the people involved or if it concerned a female in your life you would absolutely agree also that they need to get home as soon as possible, all three of them together and let him come home after them (Or before them as the case may be) if he wants. I started the thread, I asked for advice, please stick to answering the question instead of your "to be fairs...." or else don't reply, thanks. We all know what's fair and good, but sometimes horrific situations are forced upon us and we need to deal with them as best we can. To be fair, if he had kept it in his pants, none of this would be happening!!! Fair play to him, breaking his kids hearts, well done, great man, good job...to be fair!!

Legal advice probably won't be an option yet as she's completely skint.

Thank you so much for the other replies! And johnboysligo, you hit the nail on the head in so many ways!! Thanks!

LegacyUser

Milkmaid wrote: »

Hi OP, really sorry to hear what has happened..awful for everyone.
I just wanted to say that I was in similar situation in States...I sought legal advice and was told he could stop me leaving to come home to Ireland.
We were legal over there, but I was told that they come down heavy regardless because they will block you until they can make a judgement.....in fact they can do this across State lines..once a case is pending on movement of a minor then the child is restricted from being moved a certain distance..in my State it was 100miles.
I was told to take child on "holiday" to Ireland and just stay..something I felt was wrong to be honest.
Instead I persuaded my Ex to come home as well..he got help but we split up.
I knew I had to come home either way..child is all grown now
I have great sympathy for your sister..it is hell to be stuck with an unstable person so far from home.
Is there any way her OH could be persuaded to come home? Can her in-laws help? Mine were useless TBH

Thank you for your reply. It's quite scary but I'm hopeful they'll get through at the airport. I've heard from his family that he told them a different story to what he told my sister. He told his family he was "going to" contact the police but didn't. So again, he's just trying to scare her, lovely guy eh?

I doubt he'll leave too easily, allegedly he has "found himself" over there....or in english terms, has been getting a good sh*expletive*g whenever he wants it from a buxom blonde and had his wife at her very most vulnerable and dependent ever, just the way he likes it. He thinks he's a new person and says he will never return to his life in Ireland (where people actually KNOW him!) He loves the anonymity I'd imagine, actually I suspect most out and out *insert expletive here* narcissistic control-freak compulsively-lying pr*expletive*cks enjoy a bit of anonymity .....

mdebets

If they have joint custody, the father can not only prevent the mother from leaving, he can also get a court order which would mean that she has to return to Canada with her children. For more info, read up on the Hague Abduction Convention.
The best thing she can do now is, return to Canada and apply for sole custody. If the case is as clear cut as she tells, this should not be a problem. If she however does not return to Canada, that would only look bad in any later custody hearing.
If she needs the support of her family, can't they come out to her in Canada?

ztoical

mdebets wrote: »

If they have joint custody, the father can not only prevent the mother from leaving, he can also get a court order which would mean that she has to return to Canada with her children. For more info, read up on the Hague Abduction Convention.
The best thing she can do now is, return to Canada and apply for sole custody. If the case is as clear cut as she tells, this should not be a problem. If she however does not return to Canada, that would only look bad in any later custody hearing.
If she needs the support of her family, can't they come out to her in Canada?

+ 1 she's prob put herself in a heap of legal issues by leaving the country with the children. I know you say she 'escaped' and I can undertsand her wanting to go home to family if she felt unsafe with her husband but the fact is he is their father, unstable or not and has rights and if she hasn't got a court order saying he is a danger to the kids then she can't take them like that.

She would have been better going to a womens shelter in Canada and seeking legal advice in Canada. She would need police reports or some other forum of evidence of abuse/threats from the husband and apply to the courts for custody and even then she would not be able to take the kids out of the country without him agreeing to it. It needs to be proven that he is an unfit father and a danger to his kids and a court agreeing to strip him of his parental rights. She should either go back to Canada and sort something or get him to agree to return to Ireland and sort things from there.

If she does get back to Ireland and he follows it puts him in a very strong position going to court.

OS119

Irish Consulate in New York ASAP.

OP, whether you like it or not its likely that your sister has committed a very serious (International) criminal offence in removing the children from their country of residence without the consent of their father.

on a practical level it is possible that, should he have not spoken to the Canadian/US authorities and that the children all have valid travel documents, your sister and her children will all be able to board a flight to Ireland. however, while this may be great in the short term, its likely to be building up a world of **** in the long term should this go to court. however bad a picture your sister is able to paint of her husband before a Judge, he is unlikely to overlook a kidnapping charge in the US or Canada.

tbh, his legal status in Canada is fairly irrelevent - Canada is a civilised country that doesn't believe that illegal immigrants can have their children kidnapped - and its quite possible that this will be the veiw the Canadians will take if he does report the incident.

your sister needs very good legal advice, and the place to get that will be the Irish Consulate in New York.

angry_fox

Did they get back to ireland safely

Nevyn

angry_fox don't bump threads to ask for updates, PI is not an online soap opera.

Boskowski

Not judging and will of course give the OP the benefit that she knows (beleives?) this to be the entire truth. But isn't she technically abducting the children if she takes them away without the legal fathers (and husbands) consent?

LegacyUser

If he is illegal in Canada then he can't do anything. He will be shipped to Ireland if he goes to the authorities.

Child abduction laws and their application is very much a provincial issue in Canada - so it depends on what province she resided in (I'm assuming Ontario as they are now in NY). There have been a few cases in Ontario similar to what you've described - though all parties were legally resident.

She won't have to worry about Canadian law, but Irish law. However, if as you say, he has no intention of coming back then it doesn't matter anyway.

I would encourage her though to report any incidents of abuse she has experienced in the past as this would strengthen any case she would have to put forward with respect to custody laws here.

Boskowski

Well we're very much into speculation territory now.
She said e.g. •now• that she's left he's illegal. Sounds kinda strange if they're married. But let's not get into that, such cases are rarely as clear cut as they seem when you just have one side of the story.
Just wanted her to be aware that the legal situation may be different from what she might expect it to be especially if she seeks to get past border officials.

OS119

Cdn% wrote: »

If he is illegal in Canada then he can't do anything. He will be shipped to Ireland if he goes to the authorities.

Child abduction laws and their application is very much a provincial issue in Canada - so it depends on what province she resided in (I'm assuming Ontario as they are now in NY). There have been a few cases in Ontario similar to what you've described - though all parties were legally resident.

She won't have to worry about Canadian law, but Irish law. However, if as you say, he has no intention of coming back then it doesn't matter anyway.

I would encourage her though to report any incidents of abuse she has experienced in the past as this would strengthen any case she would have to put forward with respect to custody laws here.

sorry, but this is horse ****.

Canada may well seek to deport him should he come to the attention of the authorities, but that process will have no impact whatsoever on whether they alert the US authorities to what may well be seen as child abduction.

his immigration status will have no impact on how hard the US authorities will come down on someone they believe is committing a serious criminal offence.

anyone who believes that US or Canadian authorities will not prosecute someone for child abduction because their soon-to-be-ex husband is both a git and has a questionable immigration staus is deluding themselves - neither country applies the law based on the immigration status of the complainant.