Dogs and Poison

blackstairsboy

Well lads went out today with my 2 springers for a hunt. Really looking forward to it after the long lay off. I hunted away grand and managed to bag a rabbit flushed off the ditch by the dogs. I had been out for about 3 hours and my springer pup was tired and was walking beside me. The older lad was still hunting strong and well as per usual. He was hunting a deep drain and went out of sight for some time. There was no sound of him in it so I called him up as I thought maybe he had followed a rabbit or hare out of it. The dog struggled out of the drain obviously shaken. I put this down to a lack of fitness due to the long lay off. I began walking again and the dog just walked behind me. He then collapsed and began to have a fit and was shaking quite badly. I knew something was very badly wrong so I phoned my father and arranged to meet him at the nearest road. I picked up the dog and ran to the road. I put the dogs and guns into the car and drove to meet the vet who is a friend of the family. The dog was still fitting and shaking and he was in obvious pain. He died in the jeep after a few minutes. We went to meet the vet and after one look he said it was stricneen. The dog was completely stiff although he was only dead a matter of minutes. I was able to piece it together then. The dog must of found the bait in the drain this is why he was unsighted as he was eating the bait. After he emerged from the drain the poison was already taking effect. The vet induced vomiting in the other dog as a precaution but thankfully due to him being tired and walking beside me he had not found the bait. As usual if he was not tired he would have followed the older dog and done what he does. I am extremely lucky I did not lose both my dogs. I am sickened at the loss as he was a brilliant dog who I have since a pup. He was also a family pet. It was very distressing to see him suffer so much before dying. It is disgraceful that farmers are carrying out this now illegal practice. I have informed the guards on the advice of the gun club. I do not expect anything to come of it though. It is a sad loss and one which could not really have been prevented. I hope my misfortune will act as a warning to others.

bmarley

not very nice, sorry to hear about you're dog...I keep dogs too and am very fond of them (I feel sorry for the rabbits and foxes too)

charlie10

very sorry to hear about your dog

Dupont

sorry to hear that:( nearly lost a dog ourselves that got into the shed and ate rat poison. would never put it down again:(

tfox

Condolences on the loss of your dog. I had something similar happen to me where one of my dogs ate rat poison, and a lot of it !! Apparently vitamin K is a great cure for it, things like mayonaise, cooked broccoli, raw lettuce, olive oil, parsley etc all contain it

T223

Sorry to hear that mate horrible thing to happen to any dog.

steyrman2

sorry to read a tough post like this a dog is mans best friend

landkeeper

the thing about strichnine is it never breaks down the old timers would say it kills 7 times it could have been a bone or something years old its no consolation i know i lost a good terrier to it and that was a bit of old bone he dug up we think i did get it confirmed with a lab test though

driller2

very sorry to hear this.I was out the first day of the season and this happen to me.i was lucky enough to get to the vet in time.the dog fell over on the ground and started to kick out , full sure she was going to die.
fair mad at the farmer but u cant say anything if you go to the guards the land will be taken from the gun club.:mad:

ormondprop

hard luck on the dog, i'd hate it to happen to me, just out of interest did you have permission to hunt the land or did the farmer say anything to you about hunting there, we had to tell a few of our neighbours lately who walk their dogs on our farm to stick to the laneway because we've put down a few snares as the ewes have started lambing

bunny shooter

sorry to hear this

Glensman

I lost my pointer 3 days ago, also to poisoning. It didn't happen as quickly as the OP's dog. My dog was poorly for a day, vomiting the next day and was put down due to liver and kidney failure on the third.

The whole family is devastated. The Vet said poisoning, but then he said it could also have been weil's disease- I think this more likely.

Sorry to hear about your dog mate, I know what you're feeling. It was Very irresponsible of the farmer to put poison in a drain- especially if the gun club is using the ground :mad:

Liam_D

My heart sank when I read the thread title, before I even clicked on it! Sorry to hear about your dog. I would find it very hard If that happened to one of my dogs.

Liam

sikastag

Really sorry to hear that. Honestly can say it would'nt have been at the forefront of my mind when I would be out. Thanks for posting for others.

bunny shooter

Glensman wrote: »

I lost my pointer 3 days ago, also to poisoning. It didn't happen as quickly as the OP's dog. My dog was poorly for a day, vomiting the next day and was put down due to liver and kidney failure on the third.

The whole family is devastated. The Vet said poisoning, but then he said it could also have been weil's disease- I think this more likely.

Sorry to hear about your dog mate, I know what you're feeling. It was Very irresponsible of the farmer to put poison in a drain- especially if the gun club is using the ground :mad:

sorry to hear this too

Glanton

:mad:Very sorry to hear this.
You must be flipping sickened.

snipe02

sorry for your loss .this happened to me 6 years ago it wasd like losing a member of the family tough break but like you said it could have been worse at least you still have the young dog. best of luck in the future

Birdnuts

I'm gutted for you M8:( - I wonder what exactly happened and if it was poison how exactly it got there??. The new laws that have thankfully banned all poison baits (except covered approved baits for rodents) were brought in recently to prevent this kind of thing happening to innocent pets, endangered wildlife etc. I don't know if you will be able to follow up on this with the landowner but it centainly needs investigating for a whole host of reasons

PS: Thinking about it more I must say it would be odd for a landowner to allow you hunt on his land and then engage in such illegal activity that would be such a threat to your dogs - in any case I hope you get to the bottom of this incident which is disturbing on many levels:(

good logs...

poisioning the lands is that not illegal now.........im sure mr and miss consumer wood love to hear that the meat there giveing little timmy is from a farm thats poisioned with (strickline) cant spell it or even the use of it.......

Birdnuts

good logs... wrote: »

poisioning the lands is that not illegal now.....

Yes - see my post above:)

blackstairsboy

Thanks lads for all the comments.
The land is owned by one of our oldest gun club members. He is not the sort who would put poison down. Nearly all of the members hunt the land. He is a sound man and was really angry when I told him about it as he felt responsible even though it had nothing to do with him. Other farms nearby are also in the gun club and we have permission to hunt them but the farmers would be less conservative. It is most likely that it was placed there by one of them but who knows. I do not expect anything to come of it by informing the guards and I made it clear that I was not accusing any of the farmers. I was advised to report it by the club. I am hoping that by just getting the word out that whoever put it down will be discouraged from doing it in the future. It is a sort of catch 22 because if I upset any of these farmers I could end up costing the club valuable land. That is why I seeked the clubs advice before approaching any of the farmers. It might not have anything to do with them but I have to tell them if someone is using illegal poisons on their land.
I am also very worried about the length of time that the poison could remain dangerous for. It is most likely that there is more than one bait out so it could remain hidden and lethal for years. It is a terrible death for an animal and I would not wish it on any fox no matter how much trouble he may cause. It is awful that it is still being used despite being rightly banned.

landkeeper

if it were me get your vet to send some stomach contentsor whatever samples he deems fit to one of the vet labs that way you know for sure if it was strychnine or something else
i know how you are feeling at the moment but you may be able to prevent it happening again to something or at worst someone

blackstairsboy

landkeeper wrote: »

if it were me get your vet to send some stomach contentsor whatever samples he deems fit to one of the vet labs that way you know for sure if it was strychnine or something else
i know how you are feeling at the moment but you may be able to prevent it happening again to something or at worst someone

The vet was certain it was strychnine. He could tell by the way the dogs muscles had contracted and from the symptoms I described to him. The dog was very stiff despite only being dead a few minutes. Apparently this is how it effects them. I was going to ask him to do an autopsy but to be honest I just cannot afford to pay for something that is not really needed. Even if it was not strychnine it is still a lethal and illegal poison that should not be used to kill foxes or badgers. I felt I had to tell the guards because I would not sleep well at night knowing that there is poison lying around the countryside that could easily kill a person. Unlikely and all as it is but possible none the less.

.17hmr

dont post here offten ,But sorry to here about your dog

landkeeper

sounds like it it kills by makeing muscles conract
anyway i hope you find out the dirty bastard who put it out and dish out a bit of retribution at some point in the future after the ptb have finished with him

Feidhlim Dignan

Very sorry to hear about your loss. Keep the head up get out in the field and keep hunting with that other dog.

foxboy

sorry to hear about your dog
but did you check the drain to see if he left anything behind ??
A farmer near me used to lase dead lambs with poison and leave them around the fields often saw grey crows and magpies even seagulls dead in the fields
foxes would move these and maybe even poison other land

endasmail

sorry to hear bout your dog op
very upsetting to the whole family id imagine

Birdnuts

foxboy wrote: »

sorry to hear about your dog
but did you check the drain to see if he left anything behind ??
A farmer near me used to lase dead lambs with poison and leave them around the fields often saw grey crows and magpies even seagulls dead in the fields
foxes would move these and maybe even poison other land

I remember grim times like that in the 80's when my grandfather in Mayo lost numerous prize sheepdogs and gundogs to that scourge -

thankfully the majority of sheep famers now have the sense to use much safer, targeted, legal methods like shooting, trapping etc. often with the help of local GC members:)

Birdnuts

blackstairsboy wrote: »

Thanks lads for all the comments.
The land is owned by one of our oldest gun club members. He is not the sort who would put poison down. Nearly all of the members hunt the land. He is a sound man and was really angry when I told him about it as he felt responsible even though it had nothing to do with him. Other farms nearby are also in the gun club and we have permission to hunt them but the farmers would be less conservative. It is most likely that it was placed there by one of them but who knows. I do not expect anything to come of it by informing the guards and I made it clear that I was not accusing any of the farmers. I was advised to report it by the club. I am hoping that by just getting the word out that whoever put it down will be discouraged from doing it in the future. It is a sort of catch 22 because if I upset any of these farmers I could end up costing the club valuable land. That is why I seeked the clubs advice before approaching any of the farmers. It might not have anything to do with them but I have to tell them if someone is using illegal poisons on their land.
.

That makes what happened even worse:mad::( - I hope you and the rightly angered landowner gets to the bottom of this ugly incident for the benefit of all!!

Grizzly 45

Sorry for your troubles to both of you on the loss of your hunting companions.That is a nasty and ugly way of going.Just for a point ,did you check the drain for anything that might stil contain the strychnie?IE what sort of bait might still be there ??

blackstairsboy

I am going to go down there today to check it out. None of the surrounding farms have sheep. They are all either dairy or beef. This makes me think that the bait was intended for a badger more than a fox. Badgers as we know harbour TB which is then transmitted to the cattle. From talking to older gunclub members poisoning is very rare around here. There is only a handful of sheep farmers in the area. I will have a good look around there today and see what I can find.

terminator2

i lost a good springer in a similar fashion six years ago only it took a few hours,my whole family was devastated also,so i know how you feel man......

kermitpwee

My heart sank when I read this. Gutted for ya.

Birdnuts

blackstairsboy wrote: »

I am going to go down there today to check it out. None of the surrounding farms have sheep. They are all either dairy or beef. This makes me think that the bait was intended for a badger more than a fox. Badgers as we know harbour TB which is then transmitted to the cattle. .

I don't know why a cattle farmer would be bothered given that one sniff of TB would have the Dept of Agriculture out pronto snaring every badger for miles around under license(they are otherwise a strictly protected species) - in any case AFAIK farmers are fully compensated for any losses from TB reactors. In defence of poor olde broc, many(possibly most though I don't want to go into this highly contraversial area here) TB cases arise from Cattle to Cattle transmission via marts etc. Anyway hope you get to the bottom of this ugly incident ASAP!!

blackstairsboy

The department have snared badgers within a mile from where the poison was picked up. There is TB in the area. I think it would be someone making sure that it does not spread down there way. I know farmers would be compensated but some have spent years building up there herds to their full potential through careful breeding so they would take risks to protect them such as poisoning of badgers. They would be thinking prevention is easier than curing. Unfortunatley for me this bait did not get it intended target.:mad:

crackcrack30

Lost a dropper to this **** 15 years ago, he was never trained but could take hand signals when retrieving on land or water, was only thinking about him yesterday..................

odders

sorry 4 ur lost mate must be a killer .thanks 4 the reply earlyer

blackstairsboy

odders wrote: »

sorry 4 ur lost mate must be a killer .thanks 4 the reply earlyer

It is a sickener all right. I will be on the look out for a well bred springer or cocker pup over the next few months if anyone knows of any or is breeding any do let me know. Best of luck with your pup odders and do keep us updated on his progress.

Birdnuts

blackstairsboy wrote: »

The department have snared badgers within a mile from where the poison was picked up. There is TB in the area. I think it would be someone making sure that it does not spread down there way. I know farmers would be compensated but some have spent years building up there herds to their full potential through careful breeding so they would take risks to protect them such as poisoning of badgers. They would be thinking prevention is easier than curing. Unfortunatley for me this bait did not get it intended target.:mad:

That whole approach is dumb anyway since when you remove local badgers, immigrants come in and fill the void and therefore increases the risk of bringing in TB in from the outside - the sooner they come up with a vaccine for wild badgers(currrently being tested in the UK I beleive) the better!!

blackstairsboy

Birdnuts wrote: »

That whole approach is dumb anyway since when you remove local badgers, immigrants come in and fill the void and therefore increases the risk of bringing in TB in from the outside - the sooner they come up with a vaccine for wild badgers(currrently being tested in the UK I beleive) the better!!

You know as well as I do that there are some farmers who are backwards, ignorant and set in their ways. You may as well talk to the wall as opposed to trying to explain that to them. It is this sort who still carry out these practices. Regardless of whether I lost a dog or not I always disliked that sort of approach to the countryside. It is the same farmers who do untold damage by spreading nitrogen into rivers, bury livestock around the farm, dump and burn plastic and other non biodegradable waste around farms, saw down trees that have stood for 100s of years because they want the firewood. These sort of people are responsible for a large percentage of our natural habitats. Regulations mean nothing to them and something must really be done about it before it is to late.

Don't think I have an agenda against farmers or anything, I am one myself. The majority of farmers now act in a responsible manner and obey regulations. It is unfortunate that all do not because if they did our natural habitats would be greatly enhanced.

ssl

Sorry to hear. Sad news. I hope you get to the bottom of it.