Accountacy fees

joeboard

Got the bill for the accountant just before Christmas, thought it would be down on previous years but was still €1200, accounts are straight forward, and just thought it could be keener in these times, just wondering would that be around the go of it or could I do better. Cheers.

whelan1

MINE WAS 2000 , spoke with a neighbour and his accounts would be more straighforwatrd than mine and he was charged 3000:eek: rip off , was also charged 1200 for accountants fees for a revenue audit during the year - didnt pay it yet:o

joeboard

On that going not been charged out of the way, thanks for reply Whelan.

grizzlyadams

Accounts very straight forward , fee €1250 , done for €1150 so can't complain . Last years fee was the same and done for €1200

5live

I go to FDC and for fairly straightforward accounts 1000 same as last 3 years. I also got some finantial advice as well for that

Username John

My accopunts were very simple - I put all the income & expenses together in excel, plus sent in a breakdown (plus receipts) for VAT reclaim.

Cost was 700 + VAT to do the accounts plus the VAT return.

But like I say my accounts were very simple, am only farming part time...

BOND747

my accountant charges between €500 and €600 plus vat, my accounts are fairly straight forward as its a 30cow suckler unit with a bit of part time work. He started to increase his fee after year two but i warned him that my income was reducing and so would his

blue5000

joeboard wrote: »

Got the bill for the accountant just before Christmas, thought it would be down on previous years but was still €1200, accounts are straight forward, and just thought it could be keener in these times, just wondering would that be around the go of it or could I do better. Cheers.

1200 is steep enough, I got a bill of 1600, but I just filed it away with a lot of other bills.

sh1tstirrer

BOND747 wrote: »

my accountant charges between €500 and €600 plus vat, my accounts are fairly straight forward as its a 30cow suckler unit with a bit of part time work. He started to increase his fee after year two but i warned him that my income was reducing and so would his

My accounts are even more straight forward than yours and my accountant charges €1200 a year :mad: He is still charging the same as when I was milking 50 cows. I reminded him a few times about it but he justs makes the same lame excuse.

tommylimerick

my accounts usually cost around the 1200 mark 200 acre enterprise
i have gotten some terrible advice
advised me to buy a house in 05 or 06
said nothing but was wondering if he was having a laugh

advice can be usfull at times but ultimaley it is your decision

hello1

Lads, firstly I am a practicing accountant and a part time farmer, even though some times it feels more like full time farmer, part time accountant.

Accountants fees can and will always differ. Two farmers with the same amount of land with the same farming enterprise can have completely different fees - even if they use the same accountants. The reasons for this can be some or all of the following;

-one farmer might be ringing the accountant every other day with questions, you might not hear from the other farmer, from one end of the year to the other.
- Both could have records kept on an excel file, however one could be full of mistakes and it take as much time to correct as it would to have done it from scratch, the other could be completed perfectly.
-one farmer might answer your queries immediately the other might need constant reminding.
-etc, etc, etc

However, what should always happen, be it with the accountant you had for the past ten years or a new accountant, you should agree the fee and payment terms for the work before the commencement of the work - That way you will have no surprises afterwards.

Unfortunately, within our profession at the minute there are a number of unqualified accountants calling themselves accountants and are quoting fees that qualified members with practicing certificates cannot match as the unqualified accountants have not got the same overheads.

What I say to farmers is, would you let an unqualified vet carry out a cesarean on a cow if he said he'd do it for €100 or would you want a qualified vet.

Anyways thats my rant over.:)

If anyone wants to pm me in relation to thier farm accounts please do. Sometimes my familiarity with farming leads to better relationship with my farming clients.

Slán.

vanderbadger

Username John wrote: »

My accopunts were very simple - I put all the income & expenses together in excel, plus sent in a breakdown (plus receipts) for VAT reclaim.

Cost was 700 + VAT to do the accounts plus the VAT return.

But like I say my accounts were very simple, am only farming part time...

+ 1
mine costs about the same, like yourself i give him an excel sheet with what comes in and goes out and all the receipts on a month by month folder, i sometimes feel he barely looks at what i send him and that I could probably do what he does himself if i just knew a little bit more about it, if I need to reclaim VAT i do it myself as thats simple enough..
700 is plenty for he does..if it were to go up I think would be looking around

Discman

I was invoiced 700 for a simple land rental income income and a very basic CGT calculation. Like others, I supplied all expenses in excel which were very clear. It's almost the same as last year apart from the CGT but last year I was only charged 400! Do you think this is overcharging?

hello1

Discman wrote: »

I was invoiced 700 for a simple land rental income income and a very basic CGT calculation. Like others, I supplied all expenses in excel which were very clear. It's almost the same as last year apart from the CGT but last year I was only charged 400! Do you think this is overcharging?

Sounds excessive if what you say is correct. Again without repeating myself you should have got yourself a quote first.

keep going

i have a friend who works for an accoutant and it pisses her off to see the bill from the preivous year acc and her time being charged at 28 eu and she getting 9.50 an hour. have to say my acc charges about 250 but he only sees me for one hour every year. do my own vat for building. no probs so far but that might be just luck

hedgecutting eddie

mine went up by €400 this year ,accounts were same as last few years, i offered him what i gave him last year take it or id leave him he took hand and all!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D

aidanki

the auld lad is charged somthing over €1000 most years

i think its more that enough, considering that the accounts for every farmer are virtually the same

aidanki

hello1 wrote: »

Sounds excessive if what you say is correct. Again without repeating myself you should have got yourself a quote first.

how many hrs roughly to do up farm accounts or that probably varies a bit from farm to farm depending on what needs to be done

what should an accountant charge per hour,

what he does charge is a different story

k mac

Does anyone do there own accounts? I was charged 360 e for i would say 10 minutes work, hoping this year to try do it myself , maybe try and do a course that might be helpful if there is anything available.

moy83

k mac wrote: »

Does anyone do there own accounts? I was charged 360 e for i would say 10 minutes work, hoping this year to try do it myself , maybe try and do a course that might be helpful if there is anything available.

It would probably be straightforward enough to do your own accounts but i would prefer to use an accountant that would maybe pay for themselves by using their knowledge and experience to reduce your tax bill . Horses for courses !

lakill Farm

I was reading through this Thread and cant believe the amount of money some of ye are getting charged for accounts and tax.

I trained in practice in the midlands, and if i can remember correctly this is the format of fees. 1/3 employee, 1/3 practice admin & overheads & 1/3 Partners
Oh and on top of that fee they normally add the sweetner and paybe 15% so that when you get your 10% off your still down

Defo not scouting for business, but comfortabily i do farm accounts for 400plus the vat. I have even done accounts for € 250 plus(€300). I see new clients of mine down from €1,700 to €450 and i would drive out to them.

Time to price around guys.

Pharaoh1

Mine charged me 400 plus vat recently for my farm (part time) and business (used to be full time now sadly very much part time as well).

Not bad I suppose but I had everything done for him all on spreadsheet and all the paperwork neatly filed etc..
I used to do them myself but I think its worth it when it comes to the tricky stuff like depreciation or income averaging and his knowledge of the tax system.

lakill Farm

Ok so at that, would you think he was 10 hours doing our accounts.

Say 1.50 hours admin

0.25hrs to write out to you looking for the Materials
0.25hrs to write to the bank & Solicitor
0.50hrs general admin/credit control
0.25hrs Fee note/Invoice
0.25hrs Telephone call

1.50 hrs tax

1.00hr tax comp
0.25hr ros filing
025hr send cheque payment (if not done on Ros)

That leaves 7hours to do the accounts

And thats been charged at €40ph

Now i charge at €20ph and suddently the fee is 50% less

The Big Fella

Considering it takes roughly 6 years to become a chartered accountant (4 years college 2 years training) your paying someone that has the potential to save you money on a yearly bases. Im studying accounting hence Im biased.;) There seems to be plenty of scope to make money.:D

lakill Farm

4 years college and then acca 3 years or aca 3.5years . Im ACCA

And yes i did all the years and love my job as an acountant. But i hate the ****ers who bring down the profession. To many in it for the big cars etc and not to look after the ordinary farmer who is out in the elements 365 days a year.

I guess from seeing my grandad farm, working with a farmer when at college, at a bit of contracting and now having a few cattle i appreciate all the hard work the farming families in this country contribute. So ease on the fees

td5man

My accountant wanted €1800 for last year,he said he had to charge extra because he had to ring me for a couple missing statements.
Paid him €1300 after a couple of weeks negotiating,he won't be doing them again,have been dealing with him for 20 years

Anyone using IFAC ?

sh1tstirrer

td5man wrote: »

My accountant wanted €1800 for last year,he said he had to charge extra because he had to ring me for a couple missing statements.
Paid him €1300 after a couple of weeks negotiating,he won't be doing them again,have been dealing with him for 20 years

Anyone using IFAC ?

I am with IFAC. Are you thinking of changing to them or are you already with them?

td5man

Thinking of changing to them are you dealing with Liam?

sh1tstirrer

td5man wrote: »

Thinking of changing to them are you dealing with Liam?

No I am dealing with the Mallow, Cork branch. They are useless at giving financial advise all they are interested in is doing the accounts and getting paid. Just my opinion of them after 20 years.

blue5000

td5man wrote: »

My accountant wanted €1800 for last year,he said he had to charge extra because he had to ring me for a couple missing statements.
Paid him €1300 after a couple of weeks negotiating,he won't be doing them again,have been dealing with him for 20 years

Anyone using IFAC ?[/QUOTE]

Ifac are fine if you are not making a big profit.

Tipp Man

blue5000 wrote: »

Ifac are fine if you are not making a big profit.

What you mean?

trg

Am only guessing but the 4 figure sums are probably (surely!) those charged by accounting practises.

As a previous poster pointed out these must cover the costs of running a business i.e. overheads which are many in offices, they must provide a profit and a cut for the partners. You are also then paying for the fact that there may well be a new person (trainee) doing your accounts every year and they may not have experience or will not know what very many payments are for.

A good approach to take is to meet a local qualified accoutant with experience in farm accounts who is willing to work for you. In a lot of cases there will not be any office therefore minimal overheads, he will know what payments are for as he has local knowledge, he may well incur the same expenditure.

Other tips to reduce your tax bill (again to repeat other posters - rates shuold be agreed in advance):

• Keep cash spend to a minimum but keep all receipts
• Have legibile hand writing on stubs - important!
• Ensure you have all statements for all 12 months - this is a simple task often ignored.
• Have a count made of the stock on hand at year end - you should have got a reminder of this @ year end from your accountant. It is an important part of farm accounts. There are many instances where it is the "balancing figure"

If you strike a good deal with an accoutant then ask him/her to do a rough set of management accounts at a certain point during the year to allow some tax planning in real time or indeed to highlight and solve problems in real time. It should cost very little extra as there is essentially only one extra meeting for the accountant involved.

The above is from experience in dealing with local farmers and I have found benefit in the approach as have the farmers themselves so I hope it may help people here.

Atilathehun

td5man wrote: »

My accountant wanted €1800 for last year,he said he had to charge extra because he had to ring me for a couple missing statements.
Paid him €1300 after a couple of weeks negotiating,he won't be doing them again,have been dealing with him for 20 years

Anyone using IFAC ?

Many accountants, on the back of fine fat fees, on a booming economy, invested their fat profits and cash flow, in their builder / developer clients, developments. They are now, up to their tonsils in red ink, and so continue to NEED to levy heavy fees on their existing clients.
Many of the same accountants also advised their non builder / developer clients such as farnmers, to invest in guess where ........ their own builder / developer developments.

Talk about conflict of interest!

whelan1

we have been with the same accountancy firm for years , last week i gave them a cheque , the girl at the desk was saying you would not believe how bad things are there financially ....

blue5000

Tipp Man wrote: »

What you mean?

If you have surplus cash to invest at the end of the year they haven't the experience to give you advice on where to invest it. I reckon 90% of their clients make less than 30k a year.

Tipp Man

blue5000 wrote: »

If you have surplus cash to invest at the end of the year they haven't the experience to give you advice on where to invest it. I reckon 90% of their clients make less than 30k a year.

got ya

I suppose it depends what you want your accountant for -

a) to keep your tax bill as low as possible or
b) to give you financial advise

Personally we only use them for a) as to be quite frank the vast majority of accountants haven't a clue about b) If they did they probably wouldn't be working as accountants

blue5000

To be fair to ifac they are 100% honest, if you want to be 'creative' you will find another accountant to 'reduce' your tax bill. At the end of the day it's the client's problem in an audit situation.

Tipp Man

blue5000 wrote: »

To be fair to ifac they are 100% honest, if you want to be 'creative' you will find another accountant to 'reduce' your tax bill. At the end of the day it's the client's problem in an audit situation.

Who said anything about being "creative"?? I'm talking about tax planning (i.e. avoidance) and NOT tax evasion. 2 totally different things

5live

With FDC with a few years now and happy enough. About 1k a year (dairy,sheep,bof of beef) and that includes vat claims, tax free certs and a bit of simple financial advice. Hasnt gone up in price in 5 years and still cheaper than previous accounts. They also have specialised advisors for farm investment and share sales and tax planning etc so might be worth giving them a shout too, td5man.

lakill Farm

When i trained as an accountant about 5 years ago part of our training with ACCA is finance training. To many of the chartered accountants are old school.

FOr instance i know a client i do work for was told by a friend accountant to buy more houses in 2007 after buying 4 in 2005. I told him to sell and he did just before the crash. I said to him cash in your chips now and spread out his CGT payments etc on the sale and managed to tax plan the sales even

But all farmers, the costs are not huge to accountants. break them down.

I guarantee they would all drop there fees by 30% if not PM me and ill do you a special at 50% off

just do it

My tupence worth.

My accountant's fee for the last few years has been around 600-700 +vat. This includes joint return for myself and missus (full-time mom for last few years so not an issue), PAYE income, farm accounts, and 2 rental properties (in serious negative equity and costing us money, but unfortuanately on paper are making a taxable profit!)

I'm happy with his fee. I trust him and considering his fee is a claimable expense and he generally reduces the tax bill by a few hundred more than if I did them by myself, the real cost to me is €0.

ROS online is quite user friendly and for anyone on here who has the kudos to record everything on excel I wouldn't be frightened of using it.

The reasons I use an accountant are:

• Knowledge of what are the normal figures Revenue expects to see.
• I assume Revenue select people for audit using a risk assessment. By using an accountant who ensures my accounts are in order and within the normal ranges Revenue expect to see, I reckon I'm less likely to be selected for an audit.
• Some day there will be an audit, I want him to deal with them not me.
• Peace of mind
• 1 or 2 calls, no more, seeking clarity or financial advice each year

My man is a long established partner of a long established firm. Therefore has the expenses of having an office, admin staff etc that the likes of lakill farm doesn't have. (And by the way lakill farm if I wasn't happy with my man I think I'd be giving you a call;)).

Mark Reilly ACA

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Sorry but we don't allow advertising.
See our charter here

Mark Reilly ACA

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