Blasphemy law: manditory death sentence

Jonny7

There are strikes going on at the moment in Pakistan, basically in protest at an amendment to the Blasphemy law over there. The law itself carries a manditory death sentence for anyone who insults Islam. They are trying to change this law to get rid of this death sentence, but its not looking so good.

I'm not going to go on some anti-Islam tirade, but Pakistan is a nuclear power, these kind of laws are just beyond crazy in any sort of modern society, there are medieval and barbaric.

I feel Christianity has thankfully been through the dark ages and come out the other side a lot more docile, whereas (the bad side of) Islam seems to be still stuck there, it seems it will be decades maybe centuries before this claptrap of sharia law, intolerance, etc can be shifted?

Are they moving forward, or backward? I used to detest Christian missionary parasites down in Africa, the ones just trying to 'get the numbers', yet now much more worrying is this rampant spread of violent intolerant Islam through the poorest more wartorn areas, its like a damn disease

The link to the BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12097687

Liam Byrne

I think we've seen the bad side of so-called Christian religions recently enough too, what with the North and the abuse scandals.

amen

hese kind of laws are just beyond crazy in any sort of modern society, there are medieval and barbaric.

you do realise that an Irish Blasphemy law was passed hee recently no death peanalty but a largemonetray fine and maybe jail ?

Ireland also passed a crazy law that mass cards having to be signed by local priest.

What business does a secular state have passing laws to support any regligion?

dlofnep

As bad as the Irish blasphemy law is, the idea of being executed for it is completely archaic. Pakistan is a toilet and needs to end this brutal practice before they gain any sort of respect in the international community. Our law should also be repealed.

Speaking of which - Does anybody know anyone who has been convicted yet in Ireland?

cojomo2

I was walking near Henry street the other day, there were 2 bearded muslims standing against the wall with a table and big sign stating that allah was the only true god and worshipping any other god is a sin etc..the usual crap.

Could these guys be convicted under our own Blashpemy laws?

I'm not religious but their sign surely caused offence to other non muslims that take their religion seriously.

dlofnep

cojomo2 wrote: »

I was walking near Henry street the other day, there were 2 bearded muslims standing against the wall with a table and big sign stating that allah was the only true god and worshipping any other god is a sin etc..the usual crap.

Christian churches around Ireland preach the exact same thing. This isn't limited to muslims. Besides, don't Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in the same god?

wes

Its a stupid law, that was put in place by a military dictator against the Ahmadi Muslims, and it should have been gotten rid of a long time ago.

Terrontress

dlofnep wrote: »

Christian churches around Ireland preach the exact same thing. This isn't limited to muslims. Besides, don't Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in the same god?

Yip, the monotheistic religions. Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet and he is revered.

I've got a few muslim friends who are quite easy going and it seems like a decent set of guiding principles. As with all religions, the hard nuts at the extremities get all the press.

So many of the principles followed by the moderates have a sound reasoning behind them although they may no longer be relevant to modern society.

cojomo2

dlofnep wrote: »

Christian churches around Ireland preach the exact same thing. This isn't limited to muslims. Besides, don't Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in the same god?

Hmm, maybe so, not 100% sure..out of curiosity, does this god have a name, or is it just 'god'? I think allah is just arabic for god..

Seth Brundle

cojomo2 wrote: »

Hmm, maybe so, not 100% sure..out of curiosity, does this god have a name, or is it just 'god'? I think allah is just arabic for god..

apparently it's "David" but most followers just call Him "Dave"!

BMF Plint

quick question because i am an Atheist and don't believe in any crap jew dead guy who walks on water does that mean i fall under the blasphemy law if i abuse another religion

jmayo

Terrontress wrote: »

Yip, the monotheistic religions. Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet and he is revered.

I've got a few muslim friends who are quite easy going and it seems like a decent set of guiding principles. As with all religions, the hard nuts at the extremities get all the press.

So many of the principles followed by the moderates have a sound reasoning behind them although they may no longer be relevant to modern society.

The problem with the muslim extreme hard nuts is they actually get to control countries and dictate policy or perhaps you have forgotten Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc.

Thus they do indeed get all the press.
In fact they try and dictate to the press in other countries that don't even subscribe to their backward ideals or maybe you haven't heard about Denmark and Swedens current problems with lunatic religious bombers.

Extremist muslims have a much stronger grasp of power in various states than any extemists catholics, jews or hindus, etc.
From my experience even what appears to be moderate muslims would be considered extremist in other religions such as catholism.

Eliot Rosewater

The case in Pakistan is completely different, and I think its misleading to compare them. Pakistan is obviously a very repressive society. I don't think that's a fault of religion per se, it's just extremists taking it too far.

Jonny7 wrote: »

Are they moving forward, or backward? I used to detest Christian missionary parasites down in Africa, the ones just trying to 'get the numbers', yet now much more worrying is this rampant spread of violent intolerant Islam through the poorest more wartorn areas, its like a damn disease

Extremist Islam (and extremist ideologies in general) feed on anger and hatred. It's probably very east to recruit a young angry Palestinian boy into your holy war - you're giving him an outlet for his anger, and offering him a situation in which dealing with that anger destructively (by killing people) is actually praised.

BMF Plint wrote: »

quick question because i am an Atheist and don't believe in any crap jew dead guy who walks on water does that mean i fall under the blasphemy law if i abuse another religion

No. You can't be convicted if your blasphemy is of "artistic, political, scientific or academic value." As soon as you try to get intentionally arrested for blasphemy it's political, and so you can't.

BMF Plint

thanks alot i thought it stretched to cover everything

goose2005

dlofnep wrote: »

Christian churches around Ireland preach the exact same thing. This isn't limited to muslims. Besides, don't Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in the same god?

No, not really. The three ideas of god are radically different from each other.

dlofnep

goose2005 wrote: »

No, not really. The three ideas of god are radically different from each other.

Of course their beliefs are different. But they still believe in the same God.

djpbarry

Jonny7 wrote: »

There are strikes going on at the moment in Pakistan, basically in protest at an amendment to the Blasphemy law over there.

There were, but it’s worth pointing out that the numbers involved were tiny relative to the population of the cities they were protesting in. For example, according to Al Jazeera, about 5,000 people protested in Karachi, a city of over 13 million people. There were a reported 1,500 protestors in Lahore, where the population is estimated to be approximately 10 million.

Jonny7 wrote: »

The law itself carries a manditory death sentence for anyone who insults Islam.

And hopefully it will be amended.

djpbarry

dlofnep wrote: »

Pakistan is a toilet and needs to end this brutal practice before they gain any sort of respect in the international community.

Pakistan is certainly no more “a toilet” than India is – Lahore, in particular, is a beautiful city with a rich heritage. Pakistan’s problem is tribalism in rural areas, where local communities often take the law into their own hands. This is evident with regard to convictions for blasphemy – no judicial execution of a person convicted of blasphemy has occurred in Pakistan, but several convicts have been murdered by lynch mobs.

RichieC

goose2005 wrote: »

No, not really. The three ideas of god are radically different from each other.

Wrong, Allah is the same God as the Christians believe in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

dlofnep

djpbarry wrote: »

Pakistan is certainly no more “a toilet” than India is – Lahore, in particular, is a beautiful city with a rich heritage.

I was speaking politically, not geographically or culturally. It's about 100 years behind the rest of the world in terms of social integrity. I couldn't care less about what India is. The topic of discussion was Pakistan.

irishh_bob

djpbarry wrote: »

Pakistan is certainly no more “a toilet” than India is – Lahore, in particular, is a beautiful city with a rich heritage. Pakistan’s problem is tribalism in rural areas, where local communities often take the law into their own hands. This is evident with regard to convictions for blasphemy – no judicial execution of a person convicted of blasphemy has occurred in Pakistan, but several convicts have been murdered by lynch mobs.

india is an emerging economic superpower , pakistan is afghanistan with nukes

djpbarry

irishh_bob wrote: »

india is an emerging economic superpower , pakistan is afghanistan with nukes

Pakistan has more in common with India than it does with Afghanistan. I would have thought that would be obvious given that they were the same country until relatively recently.

Manach

They might have been within the same geographical expression the Raj, but the modern political Hindu/Muslim divide traces its roots back to separate nationalist movements dating from the late 19th century. The British favouring slightly the Muslim one as part of a policy of divide and conquer.

djpbarry

dlofnep wrote: »

I was speaking politically, not geographically or culturally. It's about 100 years behind the rest of the world in terms of social integrity.

The rest of the world? I don't know about that. The EU, maybe.

djpbarry

Manach wrote: »

They might have been within the same geographical expression the Raj, but the modern political Hindu/Muslim divide traces its roots back to separate nationalist movements dating from the late 19th century.

I’m in no way trying to imply that colonial India was a homogenous nation, but there are many cultural similarities between the modern India and Pakistan, as much as the respective populations would hate to admit it. Take language for example – Hindi and Urdu are very similar. Many of the regional languages are also very similar (and belong to the same linguistic family, I believe): Punjabi, Sindhi, Rajasthani, Gujarti.

dlofnep

djpbarry wrote: »

The rest of the world? I don't know about that. The EU, maybe.

Are you going to accept any criticism of Pakistan? Or is it above criticism? Any state that has a law that endorses capital punishment for blasphemy is worthy of criticism.

stevoslice

the god of jews, christians and muslims is named yahweh.

Ren2k7

Religion is the root of most of the ills of todays modern world. As long as religion forms government policy, official and unofficial, then the basic freedoms and rights of its citizens will always be under attack whether that's in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan or the Catholic Republic of Ireland.

djpbarry

dlofnep wrote: »

Are you going to accept any criticism of Pakistan?

Of course - being sentenced to death for "blasphemy" is obviously not something I want to see in the world. I have already expressed my wish that the law be amended.

OhNoYouDidn't

goose2005 wrote: »

No, not really. The three ideas of god are radically different from each other.

Wrong. All three Aramaic religions believe in the same god. Muslims consider Jesus of Nazareth to be a prophet, but not the main one, and Jesus was of course Jewish.

In terms of this law, it is of course too much, lest we forget our record in this matter. Has anyone ever actually been executed for blasphemy in Pakistan?

djpbarry

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Has anyone ever actually been executed for blasphemy in Pakistan?

Executed, no. Murdered, yes.

OhNoYouDidn't

djpbarry wrote: »

Executed, no. Murdered, yes.

Link? Source?

Don't mistake me sorting out the islamaphobia from fact as condoning this law, before you start.

old_aussie

dlofnep wrote: »

Of course their beliefs are different. But they still believe in the same God.

So muslims believe allah is the father of jesus?

smcgiff

The Jewish religion is the belief that the Old Testament is the literal word of the one and only god (although the first commandment can be read to contradict this).

The Christian god is basically a reboot of the Jewish god - and the New Testament largely supersedes the Old Testament.

The Muslim god is to be seen through the clever Mohammad, who was smart enough to emphasise he was the last prophet.

While they had their origins in the Jewish god, the interpretations of the god today is very different.

My opinion is that they were founded by the equivalent of the David Koresh of their day (without having to worry about the ATP, although the Romans come a close second ).

OhNoYouDidn't

old_aussie wrote: »

So muslims believe allah is the father of jesus?

Allah is the Father of everyone in Muslim faith, being God, and Jesus is one of the main prophets in their faith too.

djpbarry

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Link? Source?

Dawn.com wrote:

Pakistan's blasphemy law carries the death penalty although no one has ever been sent to the gallows for the crime, but religious extremists have attacked and killed several accused in custody.

http://news.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/04-lhc-zaibunnisa-freed-qs-07

BBC.co.uk wrote:

Although no-one has ever been executed under Pakistan's blasphemy law, about 10 accused have been murdered before the completion of their trial...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-10696762

Amnesty.org wrote:

Although no-one has been executed under the blasphemy laws, there have been unlawful killings of blasphemy suspects in prison, allegedly by guards or other prisoners.

http://livewire.amnesty.org/2010/11/30/%E2%80%98blasphemy%E2%80%99-death-sentence-controversy-another-wakeup-call-for-pakistan-government/

dlofnep

It's moot. The law shouldn't exist in the first place. It's archaic, and gives the nutjobs an excuse to kill people.

djpbarry

dlofnep wrote: »

The law shouldn't exist in the first place. It's archaic, and gives the nutjobs an excuse to kill people.

Nutjobs don’t need an excuse to kill people. That said, the fact that no-one has been executed under this law perhaps suggests that it exists purely to appease such extremists, in much the same way that the blasphemy law in Ireland exists purely to appease the religious-minded - it's highly unlikely anyone will ever be convicted under said law (in Ireland). That's obviously not to say that I am happy about the existence of such laws, in any country – trying to reason with the unreasonable is a pointless exercise.

yermanoffthetv

While were on the subject of screwy religious laws any "new" ones found for Quatar with the world cup and all?

old_aussie

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/pakistani-muslims-threaten-chaos-christian-woman-executed-blasphemy/

So, in Pakistan if you don't like your neighbour you just say(make something up) that they said something bad about allah and they're gone.

Seems like a fair law:rolleyes:

Jonny7

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12111831

Prominant Pakistani just gunned down..

From the article - Interior Minister Rehman Malik said: "The police guard who killed him says he did this because Mr Taseer recently defended the proposed amendments to the blasphemy law."

After the US, etc have pulled out of Iraq (****up) and Afghanistan (abandoned for 6 years in the Iraq adventure), and after thousands of holy warriors properly flood into both countries and cause more carnage than is happening now.. then they'll turn to the soft underbelly of Europe/Western countries. Like I said 7 years ago, we need countries like Pakistan to work with us on this or it is just going to get worse and worse.. not to mention they will start spreading to Africa like a disease to feed on the poor and destitute.. a la Somalia

AAhhh violent extremist Islam, still stuck in the 12th Century but with 21st century technology. And so it continues..