have i a right to ask for refund

smokin ace

hi everyone i bought this tv http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/0871349/Trail/searchtext%3ELCD+TV.htm
for my young lad for christmas but now i have spotted a problem
we all know that analog irish tv being making the switch over to digital in 2012 and its currently being broadcast now but if you look at the spec of the the tv i bought it says on the add it has a integrated freeview/digital freeview tuner but this is only for the uk market and i will only receive the irish analog channels and not irish digital would i be within my right to return the tv and ask for a refund seen as its a uk freeview tv

Grumpypants

As far as i know Freeview is the name of the UK service and not just an all round name for free to air digital TV (its called Saorview here) Argos are pretty good for returns so i would still check with them but i dont think they are under any obligation. Are you still in time for the 30day money back guarantee?

Nody

Nothing is wrong with the TV which would rule out legal refund but I recall Argos has a generous return policy so go in and ask politely.

Sam Vimes

Being able to receive Freeview doesn't automatically mean it won't be able to receive Irish digital channels

smokin ace

Grumpypants wrote: »

As far as i know Freeview is the name of the UK service and not just an all round name for free to air digital TV (its called Saorview here) Argos are pretty good for returns so i would still check with them but i dont think they are under any obligation. Are you still in time for the 30day money back guarantee?

its 4 weeks old i have the box but dont know where the manual is because of the mess of christmas morning

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Being able to receive Freeview doesn't automatically mean it won't be able to receive Irish digital channels

i have tried to tune in the irish digital channels currently being broadcast but it wont pick them up

so i dont know what to do seen as in 2 years time it will only be a monitor unless i buy a set top box costing more money

Grumpypants

smokin ace wrote: »

its 4 weeks old i have the box but dont know where the manual is because of the mess of christmas morning



i have tried to tune in the irish digital channels currently being broadcast but it wont pick them up

so i dont know what to do seen as in 2 years time it will only be a monitor unless i buy a set top box costing more money

Yea the UK broadcast in Mpeg2 Ireland decided to use Mpeg4 which is why you get sound but no picture. You will need a set top box to convert the signal.

wyndham

Worth a try. As somebody said Argos do have a generous returns policy but it would have to be put back together in the original packaging.
You might get lucky but you have no entitlements. Nothing to lose by trying.

doradoll

As said previously legally they do not have to give you a refund. I'd start out looking for a refund and if you can't get anywhere with them see will the give you a credit note. it might beyour best bet!

Sam Vimes

smokin ace wrote: »

so i dont know what to do seen as in 2 years time it will only be a monitor unless i buy a set top box costing more money

I was under the impression that you needed some special equipment to receive them like a saor view box/set top box. How are you trying to tune them in?

smokin ace

Grumpypants wrote: »

Yea the UK broadcast in Mpeg2 Ireland decided to use Mpeg4 which is why you get sound but no picture. You will need a set top box to convert the signal.

but my question is can i return the tv to argos seen as it wont and will never receive irish digital tv unless connected to a settop box in 2 years time at an extra cost because it says on the argos wesite the tv has a Freeview digital tuner so in 2 years time when analong is turned off it wont work here

Sam Vimes

smokin ace wrote: »

but my question is can i return the tv to argos seen as it wont and will never receive irish digital tv unless connected to a settop box in 2 years time at an extra cost because it says on the argos wesite the tv has a Freeview digital tuner so in 2 years time when analong is turned off it wont work here

My issue here is I think that every tv owner in the country is going to find themselves in the same situation. I don't know of any tvs that have integrated saorview receivers.

According to Newtalk the only tv brand that's certified to work with saorview is Walker and afaik even they will need an external set top box

edit: it seems walker ones won't need an external box

penexpers

smokin ace wrote: »

but my question is can i return the tv to argos seen as it wont and will never receive irish digital tv unless connected to a settop box in 2 years time at an extra cost because it says on the argos wesite the tv has a Freeview digital tuner so in 2 years time when analong is turned off it wont work here

But then it also states on the site

Please note: Freeview is not available in the Republic of Ireland.

You have no comeback here. The TV was not sold to you as being compatible with Saorview.

smokin ace

Sam Vimes wrote: »

I was under the impression that you needed some special equipment to receive them like a saor view box/set top box. How are you trying to tune them in?

if the tv has a mpeg4 tuner it will receive the irish digital channels

Santa Claus

Probably best to ask over in the Home Entertainment forum, but I seem to remember something about retailers shouldn't be selling TVs that aren't "saorview" (irish equivalent of freeview) compatable and that you're entitled to return them!

As somebody else said, Argos have a 30 day returns policy so might be worth trying that first !

Sam Vimes

smokin ace wrote: »

if the tv has a mpeg4 tuner it will receive the irish digital channels

According to this http://www.saorview.ie/receiving.html they need to have MHEG5 middleware too whatever that is. Regardless I don't think you'll be entitled to a refund because of this but Argos has that very generous returns policy that everyone keeps mentioning

Santa Claus wrote: »

Probably best to ask over in the Home Entertainment forum, but I seem to remember something about retailers shouldn't be selling TVs that aren't "saorview" (irish equivalent of freeview) compatable and that you're entitled to return them!

The only tvs that are certified capable of receiving saorview according to the same link above are the Walker WPxx (19”-46”) MP4 range of iDTV sets so I doubt that's the case since I saw a lot of other brands in Currys the other day

db

Sam Vimes wrote: »

The only tvs that are certified capable of receiving saorview according to the same link above are the Walker WPxx (19”-46”) MP4 range of iDTV sets so I doubt that's the case since I saw a lot of other brands in Currys the other day

The Terrestrial forum has a sticky with a list of televisions that can receive Saorview. You should spend a little time browsing in there before you talk about saorview. I bought the 22" Silvercrest in Lidl just before Christmas and that receives it perfectly.

@OP, have a good search around for the manual. If you can return it in the original packaging with the receipt, I'm sure they will be flexible on the 30 days. I bought a present in Smyths in November and asked if I could return it after Christmas if there was a problem and they said ok.

Sam Vimes

db wrote: »

The Terrestrial forum has a sticky with a list of televisions that can receive Saorview. You should spend a little time browsing in there before you talk about saorview. I bought the 22" Silvercrest in Lidl just before Christmas and that receives it perfectly.

Yeah I'm sure lots of tvs would receive it but the only ones that are certified to receive it are Walker. I would assume that if there was a rule that all tvs being sold had to be able to receive saorview they would have to be certified as such.

Also the fact that I've been looking at tvs in the past few days and saw dozens that wouldn't be able to receive saorview would lead me to believe that there is no such rule.

smokin ace

just an update i have sorted things out i retuned the telly to argos and asked for a refund and got it because i said in less than 2 year the tv will be useless and not fit for purpose because of the digital change over and the tv i had will not or will ever get irish digital broadcasts unless i buy a set top box at an extra expense i also brought print offs all about the digital change over as proof that i was not spoofing
so with my refund in hand i drove to power city in bray and bought one of the saorview digital approved walker tvs so off i went home set it up and bang irish digital tv crystal clear so happy days

wyndham

smokin ace wrote: »

just an update i have sorted things out i retuned the telly to argos and asked for a refund and got it because i said in less than 2 year the tv will be useless and not fit for purpose because of the digital change over and the tv i had will not or will ever get irish digital broadcasts unless i buy a set top box at an extra expense i also brought print offs all about the digital change over as proof that i was not spoofing
so with my refund in hand i drove to power city in bray and bought one of the saorview digital approved walker tvs so off i went home set it up and bang irish digital tv crystal clear so happy days

Thats a long sentence. Well done on getting the refund.

Mr McBoatface

smokin ace wrote: »

just an update i have sorted things out i retuned the telly to argos and asked for a refund and got it because i said in less than 2 year the tv will be useless and not fit for purpose because of the digital change over and the tv i had will not or will ever get irish digital broadcasts unless i buy a set top box at an extra expense i also brought print offs all about the digital change over as proof that i was not spoofing
so with my refund in hand i drove to power city in bray and bought one of the saorview digital approved walker tvs so off i went home set it up and bang irish digital tv crystal clear so happy days

Excellent result : Any new TV that is being sold in Ireland should be capable of recieving Saorview. The specs have been published and known about by retailers and TV manufacturers since 2008. Saorview is operational since October, with a full launch due later this year. Any TV that is being sold here that doesn't have a MPEG4 DTT tuner is in going to become a monitor at the end of 2012 and should be sold as a monitor and not as a TV.

the groutch

to say it would be unfit for purpose in 2 years is a bit of an exaggeration
the vast majority of people have digital subscrptions with upc/sky and will be uneffected by the switchoff

watty

Nody wrote: »

Nothing is wrong with the TV which would rule out legal refund but I recall Argos has a generous return policy so go in and ask politely.

May not be true as Analogue ceases q4 2012

All were told over two years ago of Irish DTT specs.

TV must be "fit for purpose" for minimum 2 years.

http://www.techtir.ie/blog/cinocat4/no-dtt-get-money-back

There is no excuse for selling TVs that don't work on Digital here. Plenty do.

watty

the groutch wrote: »

to say it would be unfit for purpose in 2 years is a bit of an exaggeration
the vast majority of people have digital subscrptions with upc/sky and will be uneffected by the switchoff

Untrue.
about 54% of Sky / UPC subscribers rely also on other TVs that use an aerial
If the tuner doesn't work it's a Monitor
People cancelling Sky still own the box and get all the important UK channels free but only Irish TV via aerial
Pay TV for Historic reasons is near 80% here (poor Irish Coverage and traditionally for UK BBC/ITV/C4 which are all now free on Satellite). Saturation for Pay TV would realistically be 54% to 56%. Pay TV can only drop as people discover Saorview and Freesat. www.saortv.info

People are deprived of making a decision by UK Product Dumping here and poor labelling.

Retailers have a duty to clearly label TVs
http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/for-retailers/

Some Models sold here are 3 years old. "Freeview HD" Models do Work here, yet are in N.I. stores and not Irish stores, even though N.I. doesn't get HD on DTT till 2012.

The Manufacturers and Retailers told in 2008. Spec hasn't changed since August 2008. Many models from 2009 and even 2008 never mind even more 2010 models do work here.

Even Aldi is refunding on sets bought over a year ago.
http://www.techtir.ie/blog/cinocat4/no-dtt-get-money-back

Tesco, Power City, Lidl and M&S also have swapped TVs or refunded.

watty

Sam Vimes wrote: »

My issue here is I think that every tv owner in the country is going to find themselves in the same situation. I don't know of any tvs that have integrated saorview receivers.

According to Newtalk the only tv brand that's certified to work with saorview is Walker and afaik even they will need an external set top box

edit: it seems walker ones won't need an external box

Only Walker models Certified, but Many others are 100% compatible. More will be certified early 2011, likely LG, Samsung and Sony.
Uncertified TVs have to have any Software updates done manually.

Working TVs
Loads of older models. Many 2010 and many more 2011
All "Freeview HD" (but not "Freeview" HD Ready or Full HD)

see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056096032

MHEG5 is not really optional. Especially now when so many TVs support it.

smokin ace

the groutch wrote: »

to say it would be unfit for purpose in 2 years is a bit of an exaggeration
the vast majority of people have digital subscrptions with upc/sky and will be uneffected by the switchoff

its not an exaggeration when its for my sons bedroom and he dont have a upc/sky subscription in his room
but the problem arises in 2 years time when the tv wont receive any channels at all when analog is turned off and then i have to fork out more money to get a set top box or throw the tv out and buy another tv to receive freeview irish digital channels so no i dont think its an exaggeration to expect a telly to be fit for purpose 2 years after buying it