Joining the Reserve as a doctor?

Yixian

I understand that when joining the forces, whether permanent or reserve, as a doctor you start at officer rank. I was wondering, as a medical student nearing the end of my course but not living in Ireland, whether it would be possible to do this when I qualify?

I know that ordinarily you are expected to attend a certain number of weekly training sessions before the 2 weeks training courses. Would it be possible as a doctor to go straight into those training courses, as I won't be able to attend the weekly sessions?

This might be a difficult question to answer but if anyone knows or has any advise or contacts that could help I'd be really greatful!

Many thanks guys,

xflyer

I think you asked this before. I suggest your first port of call should be the medical unit in St Bricins. Either visit them on a training evening or call them

http://www.rdf.ie/maps/

Click on Logistics. There's an email there too.

Victor

Yixian wrote: »

I understand that when joining the forces, whether permanent or reserve, as a doctor you start at officer rank.

Only if you hold a position as a doctor. There are some doctors in the reserve who serve in other roles, e.g. infantry and so start off as a recruit and work their way up to private and then up the ranks. I imagine doctors would do an abbreviated cadet's course.

I was wondering, as a medical student nearing the end of my course but not living in Ireland, whether it would be possible to do this when I qualify?

The Defence Forces have found it difficult to retain doctors and it is one of the few roles that is likely to have an early relaxation on the recruitment embargo.

I know that ordinarily you are expected to attend a certain number of weekly training sessions before the 2 weeks training courses. Would it be possible as a doctor to go straight into those training courses, as I won't be able to attend the weekly sessions?

Other people will know better, but in the PDF, your training would be full-time, although in a medical role, I imagine it would be tailored to suit - while I imagine you would have to do physical training, basic weapon skills, etc, I doubt they would send you on an anti-tank course.

AFAIK, in the reserve, you need to attend a certain amount of weekly training nights in the year to be considered for annual camp - you need to be somewhat up to speed, before they'll put effort into you. I imagine you would need to have reached a certain level of proficiency before you are sent on training courses.

Jo King

Victor wrote: »

I imagine doctors would do an abbreviated cadet's course.

Doctors do no cadet training in common with other direct entry officers. A few days orientation prior to commissioning would be the height of their military training.

Yixian

Hey guys, sorry to bump this but I haven't had any luck getting in touch.

I gather that 62 Reserve Military Police Company, 2 Eastern Brigade has a Medical Company, I have this summer to dedicate to training if this would be possible.

Does anyone know if there's any way I could do this or other people to contact?

Cheers!

newby.204

you cant join the rdf as a doctor you can only join the pdf, its a direct entry commission and its a 2week shoot and salute course. also you go straight in as a captain!! contact dftc on (045)445000 and ask for manpower. they'll get you in touch with whoever you need to if they need any doctors at the minute.

Yixian

you cant join the rdf as a doctor you can only join the pdf

Can anyone confirm this? This is the first time I have heard this!

Victor wrote: »

Other people will know better, but in the PDF, your training would be full-time, although in a medical role, I imagine it would be tailored to suit - while I imagine you would have to do physical training, basic weapon skills, etc, I doubt they would send you on an anti-tank course.

As a doctor joining the PDF, would that be a full time job or have contracted hours per day/week/month etc. or would it be something you can "hop" in and out of over the years?

Apologies if I am asking unanswerable questions but I'm just trying to get an idea of how this works. Thanks for your help so far guys!

Someone mentioned that docs would not do any cadet training, but would it be possible to do this if I wanted? Training wise I would like to do anything/everything, but I am unable to work outside of London due to having a very specific speciality.

concussion

PDF - minimum requirement for short service commission is 3 years experience as a doctor.
Info here http://www.military.ie/careers/directentry/medic/medical.htm

RDF - contact a Logistics Supply Battalion and speak to someone in the Medical Company. I'm sure the Commandant or 2 i/c wouldn't be adverse to giving you advice on the best course of action. The relevant units are 62 LSB, 54 LSB and 31 LSB. Contact details can be found here http://www.rdf.ie/maps/


PDF - full time, for at least a year and with possible overseas commitments
RDF - minimum 12 training parades (fewer if you attend a few field days and overnights instead) and at least one weeks full time training. I see no clause in R5 which exempts you from the residency requirements, which say you cannot be enlisted if the following pertains to you

DFR R5 Section 7 (j) wrote:

a person ordinarily resident outside the State, other than a person who is residing
temporarily within the State for the purpose of attending a course of education and
who is ordinarily resident in Ireland.

If there is a vacancy for a Medical Officer in a Reserve LSB, you can be commissioned in accordance with the following section of R5, which is available online here http://www.rdfra.ie/regulations/r5.shtml

DFR R5 Section 27, Subsection 2 (b) wrote:

A person (including a reservist) who is in possession of a university degree or
diploma or an equivalent qualification, or who possesses other special
qualifications of military value, may, subject to the existence of a vacancy in
Establishments for which his particular qualifications are appropriate, be
nominated to be appointed to be an officer of the Reserve Defence Force provided
that they -

(i) are not more than forty-five years of age on the date on which they are
examined by the Interview Board referred to in subparagraph (iii) hereunder;
(ii) have a medical classification not lower than - year of birth - 22 - 512 - as
defined in Defence Force Regulations A.12 (Part VI), and
(iii) is recommended by an Interview Board nominated by the Chief of Staff.

Donny5

Yixian wrote: »

Can anyone confirm this? This is the first time I have heard this!

There are no appointments for doctors in the RDF. You can still join as a medic, but honestly, no one will want you for just one summer.

concussion

Really? CS4 has medical officers listed on the strength of the Med Coy.

Donny5

concussion wrote: »

Really? CS4 has medical officers listed on the strength of the Med Coy.

Right you are. I thought the medical officers were all PDF, but apparently there are DA doctors in the RDF. My mistake, Yixian, you can disregard me, so.

concussion

I'm only going on CS4 anyway, I know little about how the Reserve Medical side works. If only someone would get through to a Med Coy...

Donny5

concussion wrote: »

I'm only going on CS4 anyway, I know little about how the Reserve Medical side works. If only someone would get through to a Med Coy...

RDF.ie agrees with CS4, so I think you're probably right.

Yixian

Donny5 wrote: »

My mistake, Yixian, you can disregard me, so.

Well you're still probably right that they won't want me for just a summer.

Basically I am having trouble getting any real guidance from the RDF about what my options are, I got a reply back from an RDF Sgt today and all they could say was to get in touch with the Med Coy - which I haven't been able to do as yet.

I am looking to be a doctor affiliated with the RDF/PDF, working in the UK but doing periodic work with the Army, particularly during peacekeeping missions in the tropics as it's tropical medicine that I am going to specialise in.

Some tropical docs do this periodic work with groups like MSF, some here do it with the British Army, I would like to do it with the PDF/RDF if possible. I know that there are Irish doctors that have done this, but I don't know who they are and I don't know how they did it.

I'd like to do as much training as possible too and I am also wondering if I can do any of that now.

I understand this is something I have to ask actual recruitment staff but yeah.. so far I am just getting copypasta from them lmao.

Perhaps I'll now try the PDF, I've only been contacting the RDF so far.

Cheers again guys you're all very helpful. Thanks for your great reply Concussion that really explains a lot, my only prob now is getting in touch with the right people to see whether or not I can "get the ball rolling" now so to speak.

Donny5

Yixian wrote: »

I am looking to be a doctor affiliated with the RDF/PDF, working in the UK but doing periodic work with the Army, particularly during peacekeeping missions in the tropics as it's tropical medicine that I am going to specialise in.

Right, well you can forget the RDF straight off. The RDF don't go overseas. All the doctors who go with the PDF are on short-service commissions with the PDF. As far as I know, they're on 12 month contracts. You need to call the Manpower office, as mentioned above. They'll let you know if there are DE slots open or when you can expect one to open up.

Edit: I've been corrected (again!): You should call the Competition Section on +353 (1) 8042652/2654.

Yixian

Okey doke will do, thanks! I suppose I can give up a year for this, I wonder if that would be spent abroad. hmm!

My only question then is, is there any training I can get now, I'm keen to crack on with whatever I can, even if docs can just do a 2 week ceremonial induction, I'd like to do as much training as possible, cadet, logistics, whatever there is!

So that's what I'll be asking anyhow.

Donny5

Yixian wrote: »

Okey doke will do, thanks! I suppose I can give up a year for this, I wonder if that would be spent abroad. hmm!

My only question then is, is there any training I can get now, I'm keen to crack on with whatever I can, even if docs can just do a 2 week ceremonial induction, I'd like to do as much training as possible, cadet, logistics, whatever there is!

So that's what I'll be asking anyhow.

No is the answer. Even joining the RDF as a recruit is a long process that takes many months and sometimes over a year, especially for overseas applicants, and you aren't eligible if you are resident overseas.

discus

Yixian wrote: »

Okey doke will do, thanks! I suppose I can give up a year for this, I wonder if that would be spent abroad. hmm!

My only question then is, is there any training I can get now, I'm keen to crack on with whatever I can, even if docs can just do a 2 week ceremonial induction, I'd like to do as much training as possible, cadet, logistics, whatever there is!

So that's what I'll be asking anyhow.

You are miles off mate. Miles off.

You will not do logistics, cadet (?) etc as a doctor in the PDF. It's fairly obvious from any reading material on the IDF websites that doctors fill a medical role and do not attend the curragh for the cadet training course. It's direct entry. And you won't be brought in for 1 solitary year, either.

This is strange - you're in the UK, where they actively seek doctors for the British Army and line up a fairly full-on medical internship / registrar / SHO program, and promise Belize/Afghanistan/Anywhere by years end. Why come to Ireland for something which promises nothing of the sort? Do you even know if we have troops abroad?

Donny5

discus wrote: »

And you won't be brought in for 1 solitary year, either.

You're right about everything else, but the docs are taken in on 12 month contracts.

concussion

Best bet is British Army for a full time position, or Territorial Army for part time. Especially if you're practicing a speciality like tropical medicine. Australian Army are crying out for people to fill these postions also, they have Medical Officer as a priority on their careers page.

discus

Donny5 wrote: »

You're right about everything else, but the docs are taken in on 12 month contracts.

Really? I thought I remembered reading that it was longer, but if you're definite, then you are more likely correct!

Yixian

discus wrote: »

You are miles off mate. Miles off.

You will not do logistics, cadet (?) etc as a doctor in the PDF. It's fairly obvious from any reading material on the IDF websites that doctors fill a medical role and do not attend the curragh for the cadet training course. It's direct entry. And you won't be brought in for 1 solitary year, either.

This is strange - you're in the UK, where they actively seek doctors for the British Army and line up a fairly full-on medical internship / registrar / SHO program, and promise Belize/Afghanistan/Anywhere by years end. Why come to Ireland for something which promises nothing of the sort? Do you even know if we have troops abroad?

I don't want to get political, but would you join the British Army?

There are doctors I know of who have worked for the HSE and done stints on UN Peacekeeping missions with the IDF, I haven't been able to get any of their contact details but I know it's been done, perhaps on some kind of special arrangement I'm not sure. But I'm aware that being overseas is probably going to clinch this.

Training wise I realise I wouldn't be acting as an infantryman in the IDF as a doctor but I'd do the training if that were possible. Again, just checking, I can understand why it wouldn't be.

This is not for pay or anything else, this is to work as a doctor on UN PK missions basically.

Donny5

discus wrote: »

Really? I thought I remembered reading that it was longer, but if you're definite, then you are more likely correct!

Yeah, for once I am sure. It's even one of the few facts on the website. They'd probably find it hard to get experienced doctors to sign up for much longer.

concussion

Military.ie wrote:

opportunity for a permanent appointment.

We are under establishment for MO's, I'm sure if they like you and you like them you'll get an extension.

discus

Yixian wrote: »

I don't want to get political, but would you join the British Army?

There are doctors I know of who have worked for the HSE and done stints on UN Peacekeeping missions with the IDF, I haven't been able to get any of their contact details but I know it's been done, perhaps on some kind of special arrangement I'm not sure. But I'm aware that being overseas is probably going to clinch this.

Training wise I realise I wouldn't be acting as an infantryman in the IDF as a doctor but I'd do the training if that were possible. Again, just checking, I can understand why it wouldn't be.

This is not for pay or anything else, this is to work as a doctor on UN PK missions basically.

Would I join the British Army? Well yeah, my start date is next month . There's nothing political in my post - I make a point of that, as you can understand. But you seemingly want some overseas work, in a tropical area. You've decided that the Irish Army Reserve is where you wanna be (but you're coming to realise that the PDF is where you need to be), considering.

a) they won't be abroad, ever.
b) the permanent forces aren't abroad at the moment.
c) you've no idea what facilities you'll be working under.

Meanwhile, there is the UN and MSF to consider as employers - both of whome have plenty of work in tropical areas. You've just got me curious as to why you are taking such an odd direction.

Morpheus

Why all the stigma about the BA?

Listen mate, Join the BA as a DOC and see most of the world.

Join the PDF as a doc and possibly see an overseas mission.... maybe.

The simple fact is that as our triple lock with the UN hamstrings our armed forces, you are far better placed to join the BA. Many of us here WOULD and DO join the BA.

Besides I thought that doctors werent supposed to act in a political manner:rolleyes:

Yixian

Morphéus wrote: »

Why all the stigma about the BA?

Listen mate, Join the BA as a DOC and see most of the world.

Join the PDF as a doc and possibly see an overseas mission.... maybe.

The simple fact is that as our triple lock with the UN hamstrings our armed forces, you are far better placed to join the BA. Many of us here WOULD and DO join the BA.

Besides I thought that doctors werent supposed to act in a political manner:rolleyes:

I do not believe in the vast majority of activities the British Army gets itself involved in. Ireland and Britain are very different countries and you shouldn't downplay the remaining imperial ambitions of the UK, they will jump at any chance to project their influence militarily.

A UN Peacekeeping mission is primarily what I am interested in being involved in and the Irish Army is a good fit for this, if it were possible to work in London (I'm specialising in tropical medicine so I near enough have to work there) and then join overseas missions if/when I am needed then that'd be ideal for me.

Apparently they are looking into this kind of thing as a possibility?

http://www.imt.ie/opinion/mick-molloy/2008/07/army-doctors-may-have-a-role-to-play-outside-military.html

I think that efforts should be made to include the diaspora, I feel like we are an untapped resource, yes it's not exactly ideal us being abroad, but a lot of us are willing to put the work in to assist the State when and where we can. If there is such a dire need for docs in the IDF then maybe it's time to change the rules a little?

LondonIrish90

Yixian wrote: »

I do not believe in the vast majority of activities the British Army gets itself involved in. Ireland and Britain are very different countries and you shouldn't downplay the remaining imperial ambitions of the UK, they will jump at any chance to project their influence militarily.

A UN Peacekeeping mission is primarily what I am interested in being involved in and the Irish Army is a good fit for this, if it were possible to work in London (I'm specialising in tropical medicine so I near enough have to work there) and then join overseas missions if/when I am needed then that'd be ideal for me.

Apparently they are looking into this kind of thing as a possibility?

http://www.imt.ie/opinion/mick-molloy/2008/07/army-doctors-may-have-a-role-to-play-outside-military.html

I think that efforts should be made to include the diaspora, I feel like we are an untapped resource, yes it's not exactly ideal us being abroad, but a lot of us are willing to put the work in to assist the State when and where we can. If there is such a dire need for docs in the IDF then maybe it's time to change the rules a little?

Just reading some of your posts on frontline operations/military life, maybe you would be better off looking to join some kind of humanitarian or aid organisation?

Your desire to help those with tropical diseases is extremely commendable but you don't really seem to have much of an idea as to what you would be doing in the military of either the UK or Ireland, and don't have much of an ambition to go to and work in a theatre of war, which as a military doctor, you could very easily find yourself in at some stage.

By the way, the British Army doesn't get itself involved in anything. They go where they are told to go and fight who they are told to fight. I think that you (no doubt as a typical leftie University of London student) need to have a read up on the British Army before posting such nonsense.

Donny5

Yixian, I think your best bet for the kind of job you want is to try MSF or another NGO. The DF simply don't offer the kind of deal you're looking for, but you should be able to find an NGO who would be more than happy to put your skills to use.

gizmo555

Yixian wrote: »

I do not believe in the vast majority of activities the British Army gets itself involved in. Ireland and Britain are very different countries and you shouldn't downplay the remaining imperial ambitions of the UK, they will jump at any chance to project their influence militarily.

This is spot on.

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

By the way, the British Army doesn't get itself involved in anything. They go where they are told to go and fight who they are told to fight. I think that you (no doubt as a typical leftie University of London student) need to have a read up on the British Army before posting such nonsense.

This is nit picking.

LondonIrish90

gizmo555 wrote: »

This is nit picking.

I think its a fairly important point. What's to say this lad won't find himself alongside men fighting with the Irish Army one day if a peace keeping deployment suddenly turned into something much more serious? (Especially relevant when you think of the circumstances surrounding the arrival of the British Army in Afghanistan in 2006) Will he want to pack everything in due to unnecessary force from infantrymen and an opposition to "Irish Imperialism"? He's mixing up his nation's armed forces (assuming he's a British national) with a political think tank. I'd be interested in hearing what he believes are Britain's remaining Imperial ambitions too. In truth, I believe the lad is unwilling to put himself in a position where he may be deployed to a real war zone and risk being killed and seriously injured. I don't think a life in the military (of any nation) is what he's after..

mhorda

I notice this on DF careers page..

The Defence Forces is now accepting applications from qualified Doctors for careers in the Defence Forces Medical Corps.

http://www.military.ie/careers

Yixian

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

I think its a fairly important point. What's to say this lad won't find himself alongside men fighting with the Irish Army one day if a peace keeping deployment suddenly turned into something much more serious? (Especially relevant when you think of the circumstances surrounding the arrival of the British Army in Afghanistan in 2006) Will he want to pack everything in due to unnecessary force from infantrymen and an opposition to "Irish Imperialism"? He's mixing up his nation's armed forces (assuming he's a British national) with a political think tank. I'd be interested in hearing what he believes are Britain's remaining Imperial ambitions too. In truth, I believe the lad is unwilling to put himself in a position where he may be deployed to a real war zone and risk being killed and seriously injured. I don't think a life in the military (of any nation) is what he's after..

I undersand your point but I don't think it applies to me. The only reason I haven't talk about thatched of the career is because I see no point in gratuitously proclaiming my willingness to risk my life or be in harms way etc

There are thousands upon thousands of people in the world who risk their lives simply living where they live and providing for their families, and their are soldiers who risk their lives to protect them, I see no reason I shouldn't risk mine to defend the lives of both. There is nothing I despise more than hypocrisy, how could I claim to be truly selfless or have any opinion of war or poverty without experiencing it first hand.

I am not interested in a suburban house with 2.4 children, the world is a brutal and unjust place, if I don't sincerely attempt to change that and put myself in harms way if necessary, how can I call myself a man?

That said I reserve the right to conscientious objection no matter which army I am in, but so long as overseas missions with the IDF = UN Peacekeeping then overseas missions with the IDF = what I want to do with my life.

EDIT: and my opinion on the British Army's imperialist ambitions are clear and and I doubt would be contested by even the most ardent British patriot. The British army, like many other national armies, is an instrument of nationalist interest, strategically using force when it can get away with it to secure the interests of it's own ecanomy.

UN Peacekeeping is the best the world has to offer in terms of genuine, peace-seeking use of military force. If the IDF were to invade a poor middle eastern state in the pursuit of easier access to oil for Ireland, no I would not participate, but I don't think that's happening any time soon do you? Not providing Ireland stays out of the EU military force as it has said it will.

Yixian

Well I've done some networking and found out the following:

• Obviously the Reserve is not the way to go at all, I am looking at the PDF only for overseas missions (as many of you have said)

• There is a huge deficit of doctors in IDF (something like less than 50% of posts filled?!) and so there is talk of allowing part time work with the forces

So I am chasing this up and seeing if it's going to happen any time soon, because that is essentially what I am after: practicing tropical medicine in London/the tropics (cannot practice in Ireland) and joining the PDF on overseas missions when called up.

I know that might sound like trying to have my cake and eat it but that's what I am looking for, a combination of clinic based tropical and military medicine during my career. Fingers crossed.

dev100

IDF = what I want to do with my life.


IDF= Israel defense force

Donny5

dev100 wrote: »

IDF = what I want to do with my life.


IDF= Israel defense force

Who gives a ****, dev? It also stands for at least two dozen other things, and it was clear what yix meant, so leave it.

dev100

Donny5 wrote: »

Who gives a ****, dev? It also stands for at least two dozen other things, and it was clear what yix meant, so leave it.

Wind your neck in Donny....

Yixian

I have seen the Defence Forces referred to as the "IDF" many times on this site and elsewhere.