preventing burst pipes

trixyben

have had to deal with 3 burst pipes this past 2 days, the worst was in the attic flooded bedroom below and in the kitchen below that again place like a swimming pool...

i was thinking of maybe putting in an antifreeze solution into the water maybe the type that is used with solar panels or even car antifreeze what would you folks think would it be safe to do?

pipes were all lagged and tanks fully insulated and were still frozen solid for over a week, even an oil radiater in attic didnt keep it from freezing!!!

heinbloed

Why not laying the plumbing into a warm enviroment as the rest of the world does?

About anti-freeze: make sure you know what you deal with. Health risks, compatibility with existing materials. There is evidence that PEG causes asthma and there is proof that PEG destroys some materials like sealant rings, plastic pipes ect ...

Contact a real plumber.

PS

"The study shows for the first time that the concentration of PGEs, propylene glycol and glycol ethers, in bedroom air was linked to an increased risk of developing asthma,

from

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/205159.php

Buford T Justice

heinbloed wrote: »

Why not laying the plumbing into a warm enviroment as the rest of the world does?

And how do you suggest Ireland does that?


OP, best you can do for DHW is make sure everything is insulated properly, there is no insulation under the tank and recommend that the householder has a frost stat and heater / ir lamp installed.

heinbloed

Fingers McGee asks:

And how do you suggest Ireland does that?

I suggest that plumbers have a look at the heating/plumbing systems their fathers and grandfathers have installed.
There are thousands of homes build by councils which have all their plumbing inside the heated structure, build in the 60s and 70s. For example in Cork.
These had never been effected by frozen pipes.

Buford T Justice

Thousands of houses built by county councils don't have OFCH in them, Mine didn't until I installed it.

Re doing an entire house worth of plumbing is hardly a cost effective remedy in a retrofit.

My house was built in the 70's, and has had a standard water tank in the attic, with some insulated and uninsulated pipes. OFCH pipes are buried under the floor as with a standard installation of OFCH. I've never had problems with my mains or with my plumbing.

Joey the lips

heinbloed wrote: »

Why not laying the plumbing into a warm enviroment as the rest of the world does?

About anti-freeze: make sure you know what you deal with. Health risks, compatibility with existing materials. There is evidence that PEG causes asthma and there is proof that PEG destroys some materials like sealant rings, plastic pipes ect ...

Contact a real plumber.

PS



from

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/205159.php

Heinblood your comments i am sure are not welcome by the OP. Its not a forum to be critical of someone but be more helpful. As it is christmas and the op needs help you would be doing the season justice by being Nice.

stephentbb2000

heinbloed wrote: »

Why not laying the plumbing into a warm enviroment as the rest of the world does?

Sound advice, thank god there is so much wisdom out there.

WildOscar

trixyben wrote: »

have had to deal with 3 burst pipes this past 2 days, the worst was in the attic flooded bedroom below and in the kitchen below that again place like a swimming pool...

i was thinking of maybe putting in an antifreeze solution into the water maybe the type that is used with solar panels or even car antifreeze what would you folks think would it be safe to do?

pipes were all lagged and tanks fully insulated and were still frozen solid for over a week, even an oil radiater in attic didnt keep it from freezing!!!

i have a weather station something like this and put the external sensor in the attic under the tank

heinbloed

heinbloed wrote: »

I suggest that plumbers have a look at the heating/plumbing systems their fathers and grandfathers have installed.
There are thousands of homes build by councils which have all their plumbing inside the heated structure, build in the 60s and 70s. For example in Cork.
These had never been effected by frozen pipes.

Heinbloed you are very opinionated on heating installations, you give advise on boilers, bearing in mind you can't read a pressure gauge or have knowledge of basic Irish heating system design, i am interested in what you base your opinion's on, do you install/repair heating systems or do you commission or wire heating systems, what practical hands on experience do you have?

Joey the lips

gary71 wrote: »

Heinbloed you are very opinionated on heating installations, you give advise on boilers, bearing in mind you can't read a pressure gauge or have knowledge of basic Irish heating system design, i am interested in what you base your opinion's on, do you install/repair heating systems or do you commission or wire heating systems, what practical hands on experience do you have?

I dont think having him flex is muscles is going to sort the problem. It does not serve any purpose to the op.

trixyben

many thanks ore all helpul replies...

so on the matter on an anti reeze solution into system any plumbers here want to give there opinions cheers

Joey the lips

trixyben wrote: »

many thanks ore all helpul replies...

so on the matter on an anti reeze solution into system any plumbers here want to give there opinions cheers

I thought inhibitor which most plumbers use should contain antifreeze. But to be honest i dont know why the heating cannot be left circulating for 15min every hour during risky times

No need for anti freeze then

2 stroke

heinbloed, I'm not familiar with your other posts but your posts in this thread make a lot of sense. Basic irish plumbing since the '70s sucks. One house I looked at before xmas, had the rising main in the cavity of bathroom wall, outside the insulation, 2" of polystyrene in cavity, and insulated slab on room side of block. Outside wall temp was -15C, if rising main had been brought in under bath and up through hotpress, this house would not have had a problem. (I know the rising main should rise through the kitchen, but under the bath makes more sense than what some builders do)

2 stroke

Joey the lips wrote: »

But to be honest i dont know why the heating cannot be left circulating for 15min every hour during risky times

This wont stop water freezing at temperatures that rivers freeze over at.

Sparkpea

sentinel X500 inhibited antifreeze

Joey the lips

Joey the lips wrote: »

I thought inhibitor which most plumbers use should contain antifreeze. But to be honest i dont know why the heating cannot be left circulating for 15min every hour during risky times

No need for anti freeze then

Asper Sparkpea you have to buy it with the anti freeze in it, also the system has to be fully flushed and hold water, if you add chemicals to dirty system water you can make a soup thats very harmful to a heating system especially gas boilers, Gary.

goat2

reading through posts, i have been put at ease, my water tank is in the attic directly above hotpress and above to the right of boilerhouse where our main water is coming through,
that answer has helped me understand why i am the only house in neighbourhood without frozen pipes and no water

goat2

trixyben wrote: »

have had to deal with 3 burst pipes this past 2 days, the worst was in the attic flooded bedroom below and in the kitchen below that again place like a swimming pool...

i was thinking of maybe putting in an antifreeze solution into the water maybe the type that is used with solar panels or even car antifreeze what would you folks think would it be safe to do?

pipes were all lagged and tanks fully insulated and were still frozen solid for over a week, even an oil radiater in attic didnt keep it from freezing!!!

would it be a good idea, to take the insulation that is under tank and pipes out and insulate above them above instead, so that the heat from the house can seep through the ceiling to the pipes above, just wondering, as maybe the insulation under is doing its job too well to benefit the tank in bad times, some people put in a one hundred and above watt bulb so the heat off that keep things from freezing

Sparkpea

gary71 wrote: »

Asper Sparkpea you have to buy it with the anti freeze in it, also the system has to be fully flushed and hold water, if you add chemicals to dirty system water you can make a soup thats very harmful to a heating system especially gas boilers, Gary.

and from reading the sentinel website it recommends 20L per 10 rads for a temp of up to -6, if you add 40L it will give u protection of up to -20. realistically this year it would be the -20 protection that you need. bare in mind the x500 comes in 5L priced approx @ £18 per 5L. bloody expensive to add antifreeze to a system with 10 rads!

2 stroke

You slould not have insulation under your tank. I've built a small room around my tanks with insulation board. 40 watt bulb inside on frost stat. All pipes outside this room are under 8" rockwool. Only house on my road to have outside tap working during the freeze. Outside tap is plumbed from undersink, stopcock under sink turned off and outside tap drained when not in use.

Glynn1972

heinbloed wrote: »

Fingers McGee asks:


I suggest that plumbers have a look at the heating/plumbing systems their fathers and grandfathers have installed.
There are thousands of homes build by councils which have all their plumbing inside the heated structure, build in the 60s and 70s. For example in Cork.
These had never been effected by frozen pipes.

Hi Glynn I would advise you to read the charter the next time and seen as though you are now costing me a lot of work i think a ban for spamming would def be in order. Thank you