Hortsmann H37XL install

Rathbeau

Hi Guys,

I am looking for some advice regarding wiring a hortsmann H37XL to an existing system.

At the moment i have a siemens RWB7 timer fitted with two motorized valves on seperate switches, these are switched by a live feed.

I would imagine i would need to wire in some relays??to allow the hortsmann
work correctly?

Has anybody any ideas ??

many thanks in advance..

Bruthal

It depends how the system is working at present. The 2 motorised valves are just operated by 2 switches independent of the timer? And timer just brings on and off the boiler?

The new timer can be wired to bring on and off each motorised valve, 1 per timer channel, and the valves themselves have switch contacts in them which can then be wired in parallel and they bring on the boiler. Room stats can be wired between the time clock switched lives and the valves to control the temperature of the living space.

Rathbeau

robbie7730 wrote: »

It depends how the system is working at present. The 2 motorised valves are just operated by 2 switches independent of the timer? And timer just brings on and off the boiler?

The new timer can be wired to bring on and off each motorised valve, 1 per timer channel, and the valves themselves have switch contacts in them which can then be wired in parallel and they bring on the boiler. Room stats can be wired between the time clock switched lives and the valves to control the temperature of the living space.

Hi robbie7730,

The motorised valves are independent of the timer, the problem i have is the location of the timer clock from the valves, the clock is in the back hallway with the motorised valves in the hot press.
the only way of getting to work as i can see it is to wire in some relays?

what way do you think i could do this ?


Rathbeau.

Bruthal

But whats the difference between this and the new timer,

The proper way to have the system working is a timer with enough channels for your zone valves, 2 in this case so a 2 channel time clock.

Each channel of timer connects to a stat, then to the motorised valve, and the switches in the motorised valves bring on the boiler.

The way yours is working, or was at least, was the timer brings on boiler and you could independently switch each zone on and off using 2 switches?

Anyway, if you had exact same timer as original, would you just be fitting as was and if so, whats the relays needed for with new timer do you think?

I have used a relay when changed a timer because the timer needed to have volt free contacts, but the timer they had did not have volt free contacts so i added in a relay to get them.

So are you wanting to change how the heating is controlled now maybe?
I dont know exactly how yours is setup, but if the valves are just manually switched by you to bring on certain areas, then the timer is probably directly bringing on the boiler at present?

Rathbeau

robbie7730 wrote: »

But whats the difference between this and the new timer,

The proper way to have the system working is a timer with enough channels for your zone valves, 2 in this case so a 2 channel time clock.

Each channel of timer connects to a stat, then to the motorised valve, and the switches in the motorised valves bring on the boiler.

The way yours is working, or was at least, was the timer brings on boiler and you could independently switch each zone on and off using 2 switches?

Anyway, if you had exact same timer as original, would you just be fitting as was and if so, whats the relays needed for with new timer do you think?

I have used a relay when changed a timer because the timer needed to have volt free contacts, but the timer they had did not have volt free contacts so i added in a relay to get them.

So are you wanting to change how the heating is controlled now maybe?
I dont know exactly how yours is setup, but if the valves are just manually switched by you to bring on certain areas, then the timer is probably directly bringing on the boiler at present?

the timer i have at the minute is working fine, but i have to switch on the different zones manually where as with the horstmann i could have different zones on at different times making the heating more econmical..

Bruthal

Rathbeau wrote: »

the timer i have at the minute is working fine, but i have to switch on the different zones manually where as with the horstmann i could have different zones on at different times making the heating more econmical..

Are you thinking of using the relays to operate instead of the 2 switches, are they beside the timer?

Rathbeau

robbie7730 wrote: »

Are you thinking of using the relays to operate instead of the 2 switches, are they beside the timer?

yes the switches are beside the timer, i originally hoped to use the feed from the horstmann but this is a neutral feed where my switches are live, i'm probably explaining this all wrong?? but my overall plan is to have the horstmann controlling the valves and boiler in one..

Bruthal

Once the timer has live in and neutral in connected it will be switching a live out on terminals 1,3 and 5 for channel 1, channel 2 and channel 3.

If the original timer just fired up the boiler direct, then you would probably need relays alright to save new wiring around the house. Each switch wire from the 2 existing switches could be fed from 2 channels from the timeclock. And the same 2 channels could bring on 2 relays, and live feed into 2 commons of relays contacts, and the output n/o terminals of both relays could be connected together and then onto the original feed out to boiler. This will allow both channels to operate seperately.

Normally the contact switches in the motorised valves keep the zones electrically seperate from each other because the motorised valves have independent contacts in them which are used to bring on the boiler.

The 2 original switches controlling valves should be on the same circuit as the timeclock for the above setup.

Are you a sparks as the type of work above should be carried out by qualified people.

Rathbeau

robbie7730 wrote: »

Once the timer has live in and neutral in connected it will be switching a live out on terminals 1,3 and 5 for channel 1, channel 2 and channel 3.

If the original timer just fired up the boiler direct, then you would probably need relays alright to save new wiring around the house. Each switch wire from the 2 existing switches could be fed from 2 channels from the timeclock. And the same 2 channels could bring on 2 relays, and live feed into 2 commons of relays contacts, and the output n/o terminals of both relays could be connected together and then onto the original feed out to boiler. This will allow both channels to operate seperately.

Normally the contact switches in the motorised valves keep the zones electrically seperate from each other because the motorised valves have independent contacts in them which are used to bring on the boiler.

The 2 original switches controlling valves should be on the same circuit as the timeclock for the above setup.

Are you a sparks as the type of work above should be carried out by qualified people.

no not a sparks but i think i could handle the wiring would you be able to send on what i would need to do ? obviously it would be my decision to go ahead with this..


your help is greatly appreciated..

beanie10

If the timer is beside the switches why not just replace the switches with new timer. If there is a grey and orange core in the MV these can be used to switch on the burner use grey as live in and orange as live to burner. You would want to be fairly handy at wiring cause if you get this wrong could bo bye bye timer or burner.

Bruthal

beanie10 wrote: »

If the timer is beside the switches why not just replace the switches with new timer. If there is a grey and orange core in the MV these can be used to switch on the burner use grey as live in and orange as live to burner. You would want to be fairly handy at wiring cause if you get this wrong could bo bye bye timer or burner.

Which is why i suggest a sparks do it. I assume the grey/orange from valves are not wired to the boiler. If they are then this is the only way to do it.

Replacing the 2 switches with the timer outputs has been said in post #8, and if the boiler is still going to be brought on by the switch wire from the original/new timer position, relays would be needed to keep the timeclock channels sepeate. But certainly the motorised valve switches is the way to go, motorised valves are actually acting like relays in heating control circuits via their electrical contacts.

And if a sparks came in who is familiar with this heating control wiring, he can acertain if the motorised valve contacts are or can be wired back to the boiler.