For anyone who's gay and Catholic and cut up about it, this is the book for you.

DS333

"The Church and the Homosexual", by John J. McNeill, S.J.

This book was published in 1976 but I haven't heard of one like it being written more recently. It is easy to buy secondhand through Amazon.

I am only halfway through it but, my God, is it an eye-opener. I'd recommend it to anyone who feels abandoned by the Catholic Church, that is, if there is anybody like that still out there. I wish I'd heard of it and read it years ago.

The examination of scripture and it's interpretation is excellent and very, very convincing. McNeill shows how hostility towards homosexuality crept into tradition and has been handed down, or preserved, ever since. Little wonder he had difficulty in getting permission to publish it.

hotmail.com

DS333 wrote: »

"The Church and the Homosexual", by John J. McNeill, S.J.

This book was published in 1976 but I haven't heard of one like it being written more recently. It is easy to buy secondhand through Amazon.

I am only halfway through it but, my God, is it an eye-opener. I'd recommend it to anyone who feels abandoned by the Catholic Church, that is, if there is anybody like that still out there. I wish I'd heard of it and read it years ago.

The examination of scripture and it's interpretation is excellent and very, very convincing. McNeill shows how hostility towards homosexuality crept into tradition and has been handed down, or preserved, ever since. Little wonder he had difficulty in getting permission to publish it.

There's a lot of other reasons why gay people have stopped supporting the Catholic Church, it's not just about the gay issue.

L.Jenkins

I've stopped supporting the church long ago and not just because of the stance on homosexuality. Read Richard Dawkins, 'The God Delusion' for an additional eye opener which details how set in their ways, many believers actually are. Talk about burying ones head in the sand and the attrocities in the name of god is enough to make any right minded, logical thinking person want to burn a church down.

DS333

hotmail.com wrote: »

There's a lot of other reasons why gay people have stopped supporting the Catholic Church, it's not just about the gay issue.

That's quite true but I was just referring to the gay population.

Dr. Baltar

As an agnostic and a bisexual person, I would be very critical of the Catholic Church. However, I am a firm believer in homosexuality and religion going hand in hand.

For those of you out there who are struggling with your faith, or who have very religious parents who cannot accept your sexual orientation, I would seriously suggest sitting down and watching "Prayers for Bobby". Absolutely amazing movie!

rainbow kirby

I'd also recommend "For The Bible Tells Me So" - a documentary about various young people coming out in very religious families.

hotmail.com

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

As an agnostic and a bisexual person, I would be very critical of the Catholic Church. However, I am a firm believer in homosexuality and religion going hand in hand.

For those of you out there who are struggling with your faith, or who have very religious parents who cannot accept your sexual orientation, I would seriously suggest sitting down and watching "Prayers for Bobby". Absolutely amazing movie!

Going hand in hand, what do you mean that?

We have lots of "a la carte" Catholics in Ireland at the moment - they only like to believe certain parts of Catholicism, but not others. It's very frustrating for non-believers to have any respect for people like this - either you're a Catholic or not. You can't be half and half.

Fad

hotmail.com wrote: »

Going hand in hand, what do you mean that?

We have lots of "a la carte" Catholics in Ireland at the moment - they only like to believe certain parts of Catholicism, but not others. It's very frustrating for non-believers to have any respect for people like this - either you're a Catholic or not. You can't be half and half.

Well to be fair, if you buy into some of the more core Catholic beliefs (Transubstantiation and the whole virgin birth lark) I think anyone is within their rights to call them self a Catholic. Bending the slightly more non-essential rules is a bit more forgivable (Well, in terms of integrity) tbh.

DS333

Sorry, but I'm talking about people who have been brainwashed into believing exactly what the Catholic Church teaches about them, and there are such people. They feel ostracized and despised and they believe that God hates them too.

And I have another recommendation for them.

"What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality", by Daniel A. Helminiak, Ph.D.

Both these books are written by priests who work with homosexuals and who want to try and stem the appalling number of suicides, the bullying and murders, and all other forms of persecution perpetrated in the name of religion. They write about a conspiracy of silence and a deliberate misinterpretation of biblical texts. They discuss these verses in detail and show what the original texts really meant.

I am sure that both these books would offer great consolation and hope to people out there who believe that they are worthless or even evil and that they are bound for hell. They need to know that God loves them and that he never, ever reviled them. Words have been put into his mouth that he never uttered.

Such people need to hear this. These books have the potential to transform their lives and take away all their pain and unhappiness.

hotmail.com

Fad wrote: »

Well to be fair, if you buy into some of the more core Catholic beliefs (Transubstantiation and the whole virgin birth lark) I think anyone is within their rights to call them self a Catholic. Bending the slightly more non-essential rules is a bit more forgivable (Well, in terms of integrity) tbh.

So some rules are non-essential? Who decides what rules are essential and non-essential?

In my view, the Catholic Church has a list of rules and either you are supportive of all the rules or none at all. So I find it odd that some people disagree with so many aspects of Catholicism (sex before marriage being the most common), but still claim to be Catholics and go to mass every week. I just don't get that at all.

Wolfe Tone

This thread has descended into a Church bashing exercise, religion in general, rather than one to help the christian homosexual population. Sad.

DS333

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

This thread has descended into a Church bashing exercise, religion in general, rather than one to help the christian homosexual population. Sad.

Thanks.

I feel that the thread has been hijacked and now won't reach those it is intended for. They'll walk away.

Very, very sad.

BanzaiBk

Nice thread. I've actually read this book before and I enjoyed it, even gave it to my mother and she liked it as well. There are some second hand copies in the LGBT books section of Vibes and Scribes on Bridge Street in Cork (the second hand place).

God Delusion is an interesting read too but not even vaguely similar to the book in the OP.

rainbow kirby

Could we please try and keep this thread to recommendations of books/movies/other media which is helpful to those attempting to reconcile sexuality and religious belief?

Chuchoter

Anybody wants to look up Jason Cables podcast he did a whole thing on the mistranslation of the bible. It was so interesting.

lostwallet

thanks for the suggested readings

Dr. Baltar

hotmail.com wrote: »

Going hand in hand, what do you mean that?

What I meant was; there are a lot of people out there who believe that it is impossible to be Catholic/other religions and also gay at the same time. As one set of beliefs condemn the other. I however believe that it is very very possible to be both. I will explain my belief for this below:

hotmail.com wrote: »

So some rules are non-essential? Who decides what rules are essential and non-essential?

In my view, the Catholic Church has a list of rules and either you are supportive of all the rules or none at all.

On your first part: Yes. Some rules are non-essential in the Catholic Church. That is my opinion. Who decides? The follower. I am a huge Battlestar Galactica fan. I however, happen to hate a season three episode called "Unfinished Business" which a lot of fans adore. If a majority of the BSG fanbase beleives that "one must like 'Unfinished Business' to be a true BSG fan" and I do not, does this make me less of a BSG fan than the others?

I don't think it's black and white. One can be something without X the same way that someone can be gay but not like anal sex.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

This thread has descended into a Church bashing exercise, religion in general, rather than one to help the christian homosexual population. Sad.

Agreed. The thread is slowly devolving into Homosexuality VS the Church. Why cannot it be Homosexuality AND the Church.

DS333

crayolastereo wrote: »

Anybody wants to look up Jason Cables podcast he did a whole thing on the mistranslation of the bible. It was so interesting.

You should look at Helminiak's book, cited above, and see how they've distorted the truth. It resembles a conspiracy!

L.Jenkins

In my opinion, all religion is a conspiracy with brainwashed and cult like followers. Just consider the characteristics of any cult and it can be applied to any religion.

Annasopra

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

In my opinion, all religion is a conspiracy with brainwashed and cult like followers. Just consider the characteristics of any cult and it can be applied to any religion.

Rainbow Kirby gave a warning earlier on about staying on topic - please heed the warning