Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
Can somebody help please, no pressure no heating.
-
28-12-2010 3:52pm#1Hi all, I hope someone can shed bit of light here, as there is nobody willing to come look at it tonight (bit understandable, still Holidays!) and have no heating and baby child.
I have gas heating with boiler Mynute 16E.
In hot press I got tank, cylinder, pump and loads of pipes and cables
Problem: I had one heater that was only hot at bottom, so obvious kicked in - needs to be bled, so I did, that part went fine, quite lot of air went out (smelled gas a bit?) and when water started to pour I locked bleding valve back again.
Then when I tried to start heating, bolier won't turn on. I guess it's due to low pressure in circuit, I somehow depressurized it by bleeding heater. Gauge bar on boiler just shows 0 bar, as far as I know should be between 1 and 2.
Now, as far as I can remember anything, there should be a valve (operable just by hand) somewhere near the silver flexible cables around the cylinder in hot press room.
However I cannot see any handles, just red metal knobs, couple of them.
I tried each of them, they seemed to be all already open. I cannot seem to be able to top-up water to heating system and make boiler start. Not a clue, which is the correct knob, however tried them all (I think so!). Maybe I am missing here something as my system is maybe automatic (googled it somewhere - no idea if my system is automatic or not) !?
Any of you please got more experience and maybe could help...? I think it must be something easy, emergency service will be probably fortune today... never mind looking like fool if guy comes all the way here and turns 1 button to fix it
I am ataching links to pictures of my boiler connection (kitchen) and then couple pictures from hot press.
Much appreciate some help folks. THX
0
Comments
-
-
-
-
slavetothegrind: thanks a mil man, spot on, that was the valve, not enough words to thank you. Thanks other posters too.
Funny enough I was turning this knob before, but only made like 1 full spin due to resistance, this time I got more courage and turned harder and it gave and I eventually heard water flow - it sounded like power pump kicked back in to pump that extra water. I went gently few times few. sec. each watching gauge until it hit 1,5 bar.
However got another issue now. 2 heaters are completely cold. One of them is the one which I had original problem with (then was only half cold). The other one is one of bedrooms - and this one before was completely fine.
So I'm not builder but logically it must mean those 2 are maybe on another circuit or something than other 3 and I somehow managed to cut them off from the other three.
What puzzles me even more is now the same knob that gave me pressure to boiler only a little while ago does not work anymore - no mater how much I turn it is no longer filling water as just did it moment ago. Can't understand it.
Anyways, thanks a mil, I have at least some heat in apt. enough to keep me going until I get plumber in, I tried all knobs again to activate 2 cold heaters, I tried to bleed them as well - no joy.
I owe you one guys. And at least I am quite safe from wifes bashing me about doing houseworks I have no clue about and leaving them with no heat at all for baby THX. 0 -
slavetothegrind: thanks a mil man, spot on, that was the valve, not enough words to thank you. Thanks other posters too.
Funny enough I was turning this knob before, but only made like 1 full spin due to resistance, this time I got more courage and turned harder and it gave and I eventually heard water flow - it sounded like power pump kicked back in to pump that extra water. I went gently few times few. sec. each watching gauge until it hit 1,5 bar.
However got another issue now. 2 heaters are completely cold. One of them is the one which I had original problem with (then was only half cold). The other one is one of bedrooms - and this one before was completely fine.
So I'm not builder but logically it must mean those 2 are maybe on another circuit or something than other 3 and I somehow managed to cut them off from the other three.
What puzzles me even more is now the same knob that gave me pressure to boiler only a little while ago does not work anymore - no mater how much I turn it is no longer filling water as just did it moment ago. Can't understand it.
Anyways, thanks a mil, I have at least some heat in apt. enough to keep me going until I get plumber in, I tried all knobs again to activate 2 cold heaters, I tried to bleed them as well - no joy.
I owe you one guys. And at least I am quite safe from wifes bashing me about doing houseworks I have no clue about and leaving them with no heat at all for baby THX.
The cold rads are unbalanced. Just bleed them till they are hot. You might need to fill the system slightly again.0 -
Advertisement
-
What puzzles me even more is now the same knob that gave me pressure to boiler only a little while ago does not work anymore - no mater how much I turn it is no longer filling water as just did it moment ago. Can't understand it.
Anyways, thanks a mil, I have at least some heat in apt. enough to keep me going until I get plumber in, I tried all knobs again to activate 2 cold heaters, I tried to bleed them as well - no joy.
I owe you one guys. And at least I am quite safe from wifes bashing me about doing houseworks I have no clue about and leaving them with no heat at all for baby THX.
The mains probably doesn't have enough pressure to add any more pressure to the system.0 -
Joey the lips: fair play. That took me bit farther.
Indeed, when I left them bleeding after about half sauce pan (hmmm, 1,5 litre?) one of the 2 bottom (left and right hand side) heater valves becomes slowly warmer and warmer and I can feel heater gets gradually more warm, especially in the area where bleed valve is and I can feel warmer water on my hands. However, it's not going any much better than that, unless I don't know, maybe I need to get out like 5 soucepans out of it, maybe that procedure takes ages? When I just stop when heater starts to warm up and close bleeding valve then it gradually becomes cold again. WTF :mad::mad: Ruined hope!
Also I think I figured out how, more or less, my topup valve works - it only kicks in when boiler gauge drops low, say like 0,5 maybe even lower, won't work if pressure is over say 1. Then when I turn it, it pumps up again. And... if I just leave it running, surprisingly it is not overcharging boiler as I thought it would, but it stops pumping by itself when boiler gauge hits 1,5 bar. So there must be some auto shut safety thing installed in it. Wow
So I am bit lost here, am I doing something wrong? Should I leave bleeding them for even longer to balance, is it normal, that it takes so bloody long?
Maybe my bleeding technique is wrong? All I do is open bleeding valve, while boiler keeps running (other 3 heaters very hot, full power). Shall I maybe stop boiler first, or shall I bleed all heaters at the same time, even those working ones? Maybe temperature knob on affected heaters needs to be decreased during bleeding or something? At the moment temp. gauge on heaters is full on.
Cheers guys, I am close to fixing this thing... much appreciate your help offered and time.0 -
-
Also I think I figured out how, more or less, my topup valve works - it only kicks in when boiler gauge drops low, say like 0,5 maybe even lower, won't work if pressure is over say 1. Then when I turn it, it pumps up again. And... if I just leave it running, surprisingly it is not overcharging boiler as I thought it would, but it stops pumping by itself when boiler gauge hits 1,5 bar. So there must be some auto shut safety thing installed in it. Wow
Basically, your cold water mains pressure feed to your house / apt is equalizing to that in your central heating circuit. However, it would be inportant to close off this valve when not needing to fill the central heating circuit because if your mains water got cut off like what's happening at the moment, then your central heating circuit pressure will match the cold water mains pressure i.e. 0 bar !!
I'm no expert but I did my own balancing job on my rads.
1) On every rad should be two valves - a Thermostatic Valve on one end and a Lockshield Valve on the other.
2) Get to know the sequence of your rads on whatever number of circuits you have
3) Set Thermostatic Valves to their hotest setting (fully open)
4) Take the cover off the Lockshield Valves and then with a pliers, close the Lockshield Valve nearest to the boiler down to about 1/4 open, the next one in sequence more open and so on along the run of rads and the last ones in the line, the valve should be fully open.
5) Fire up the heating and all rads should be heating somewhat simultaneously. You can now start tweaking the degree of open or closed that the valves are until you get to a reasonably balanced setup
I did mine this way and fired up the heating over a few days until I got things just right.0 -
Joey the lips: fair play. That took me bit farther.
Indeed, when I left them bleeding after about half sauce pan (hmmm, 1,5 litre?) one of the 2 bottom (left and right hand side) heater valves becomes slowly warmer and warmer and I can feel heater gets gradually more warm, especially in the area where bleed valve is and I can feel warmer water on my hands. However, it's not going any much better than that, unless I don't know, maybe I need to get out like 5 soucepans out of it, maybe that procedure takes ages? When I just stop when heater starts to warm up and close bleeding valve then it gradually becomes cold again. WTF :mad::mad: Ruined hope!
Also I think I figured out how, more or less, my topup valve works - it only kicks in when boiler gauge drops low, say like 0,5 maybe even lower, won't work if pressure is over say 1. Then when I turn it, it pumps up again. And... if I just leave it running, surprisingly it is not overcharging boiler as I thought it would, but it stops pumping by itself when boiler gauge hits 1,5 bar. So there must be some auto shut safety thing installed in it. Wow
So I am bit lost here, am I doing something wrong? Should I leave bleeding them for even longer to balance, is it normal, that it takes so bloody long?
Maybe my bleeding technique is wrong? All I do is open bleeding valve, while boiler keeps running (other 3 heaters very hot, full power). Shall I maybe stop boiler first, or shall I bleed all heaters at the same time, even those working ones? Maybe temperature knob on affected heaters needs to be decreased during bleeding or something? At the moment temp. gauge on heaters is full on.
Cheers guys, I am close to fixing this thing... much appreciate your help offered and time.
It sounds to me like you have a pump operated by a pressure switch to charge the system when it drops. Seems like its overly expensive rather than just adding it to the mains, unless there are pressure issues in the place.0 -
Advertisement
-
-
-
Thanks guys for all explanations, noted. What I did is I bled those 2 problematic heaters again for a good while (saucepan of water each) then topped up system and fired up all again. 2 heaters remained somewhat cold, but magically after 15-20 minutes they started to warm up. Another 20 mins and they were almost at their full.
However all 3 other heaters get to their max in just few minutes, these two took good half an hour now or so :mad: What the hell...
So I turned off heating completely and let all heaters cool down.
Started again and 2 problematic heaters coped on quicker than before - approx. 10-15 mins. to full heat, but still much slower than other 3 (max. 5 mins).
Do you think they should be up to speed in next coouple tries, or could there be any problem?
Well at least it's somehow confirmed they work (I thought those 2 are completely cut off or something), just bit slow.
So you need to adjust the lockshield valves and either open the ones on these two problematic rads slightly or else close some of the other ones slightly (say half a turn for starters) and each day do a bit more. Basically, you're two bad rads are too restricted so need more water. If they are at the end of a sequence of rads, then the previous ones are gobbling up all the hot water - get the idea ?
A plumber cannot afford to spend hours doing this but you can. A lockshield valve will only have about 3 to 4 turns between fully open and fully closed
C0 -
Thank you all posters in this topis, your help was amazing. I am back into game. Still playing with lockshields a bit to balance whole system as good as possible, but now all heater including problematic heaters go at full power and all heat up in mater of few minutes, quickly. The last bit to do is that each of heaters seems to be very hot at the top and just a little bit less hot at the bottom - but I believe, this is the same thing - just keep balancing them, eventually should settle all even I guess.
Job well done guys, what this world would be without Internet and this wonderful forum. Hopefully I could contibute something back here in my own area of profession and interest, chat soon
0 -
Hi Guys!
I have a similar problem - I live in a two level house and recently I had to flush one of my ground level rads (I closed both valves and took it off the wall, there was about a bucket of water that I had to get rid of before I could do anything with it...). The pressure in my CH system wasn't great at all before doing this but now I'd say it is dramatic - went down to 0 bar! By the way, cleaning the rad inside helped but I'm worried if it'll kill the whole gas heater now as it is not designed to work with such a low water pressure (as far as I know ideally 1-1.5 bar).
Originally I had all the valves on my photos opened. After reading this thread I closed the one located on a small pipe feeding into a bigger one (see picture no.1) but nothing really happened - pressure went up to 0.1 bar when the heater was on...
I use the gas heater to heat the water in my taps as well. Would anybody have any suggestions how to deal with this issue? Is there any way how I can top up the system and the most important probably - is it still safe to use it as it is?
Thanks a million for any replies!
0 -
It looks like the feed to the cylinder is being used for the heating system as well
I'd doubt that's good practice.
Was the valve you refer to on the small pipe always left open before? (presume that's a non-return beneath it)
Maybe the system was converted from vented to sealed at some point?0 -
Hi Tom, thanks for your reply.
I'd say rather that in this case the heating system is being used for the cylinder as well. I can try to cut it off and use it with the mains powered option. I wouldn't also remember if the valve on the small pipe was left open before - I could open it when I was trying to get the cylinder heated with the gas heater.
To be honest I wouldn't expect anybody to do this type of conversion, but again - I'm not a plumber so I wouldn't know for definitive.
There is no additional tank for the heating system only, so it would indicate that I deal with sealed CH system. Do you think that balancing the system can help with the pressure issue?
I'm really worried if this can kill the heater...It looks like the feed to the cylinder is being used for the heating system as well
I'd doubt that's good practice.
Was the valve you refer to on the small pipe always left open before? (presume that's a non-return beneath it)
Maybe the system was converted from vented to sealed at some point?0 -
-
You need to leave the wheelhead valve above the non-return valve open and not fire the boiler until you are happy the system is full of water, you have a tank fed semi-sealed system, most gas boilers on this type of system have the low water safety switch cut out so the boiler can still fire with no water in it, not a healthy thing to have happen:eek:.
Thanks for this.
So, if I'll leave the valve open and avoid turning on the boiler for a while it should build some pressure up? Or is the only reason for this to get the system filled with water completely without even looking at the water pressure?
I tried to bleed the system at that valve (there is a little bolt that I believe is there to do so) and couldn't see any air coming out - only water.
Good to know anyway that something like semi-sealed systems exists as I started thinking about me being a part of a larger plumbing-experiment 0 -
-
Advertisement
-
Thanks for this.
So, if I'll leave the valve open and avoid turning on the boiler for a while it should build some pressure up? Or is the only reason for this to get the system filled with water completely without even looking at the water pressure?
I tried to bleed the system at that valve (there is a little bolt that I believe is there to do so) and couldn't see any air coming out - only water.
Good to know anyway that something like semi-sealed systems exists as I started thinking about me being a part of a larger plumbing-experiment
The pressure your boiler shows is a indication of gravity and not mains pressure, you will not achieve the pressure indicated in the manual or what other people say maybe required because you are not using mains, this system design is home grown and not recognized by boiler manufactures.
You're only requirement is to have the system full of water, you need to bleed all the rads and be happy they are full with water, if the boiler is below your rads it's less of a issue, if the boiler is the highest point of the system then you have to be very careful, their tends to be no protection for low water/no water for most boilers plumbed in this manor and the first people know of the issue is when the heat exchanger melts.
If your not having any joy and your hot water supply is still strong then the non-return valve can stick and maybe be the problem, give it a bang it might do nothing, but your other half will be impressed, if your not sure get a RGII in it not worth the risk.0 -
-
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Advertisement