Shane Horgan

tolosenc

Did he retire from international rugby or something?

He's been in phenomenal form for Leinster of late, yet no one even thinks of him for a spot on the bench in the Ireland squad. He has experience to boot. I know the 14 shirt is pretty much Tommy Bowe's, but surely Horgan still has something to offer?

jolley123

It's really just a case of we have an outstanding 14 and don't need him. I'd like to see him in the squad but realistically, if Bowe is fit - Bowe starts. And the whole bench thing just isn't really covering enough of your backline. You're right, he's playing some fantastic rugby, but at the end of the day Bowe is the better option. i don't feel too bad for the guy though, he has like over 40 caps and has had a great international career.

B0X

If you removed Bowe from some matches, maybe Italy or somthing, it'd be way more benificial to play up and coming players than Shane Horgan considering his age. (Don't get me wrong, i'm a Leinster fan and he has been in great form but it's a bit too late I think)

Bugnug

I think he would be a great guy to have in the squad to bring some of our younger backs on and help thm develop thier game with his experience. Unfortunately for Horgan he is not from Munster so that won't happen.

stephen_n

Bugnug wrote: »

I think he would be a great guy to have in the squad to bring some of our younger backs on and help thm develop thier game with his experience. Unfortunately for Horgan he is not from Munster so that won't happen.

Seriously I'm a Leinster fan and what has that got to do with anything except stupid tribal BS and paranoia. Horgan is in great form for Leinster but is nowhere near good enough to replace Bowe who is considered one of the best 14's in Europe at the moment! On the bench you need players who can cover the back three not just one wing and Horgan does not offer that and that is why he won't be considered. If Bowe got injured before the 6N horgan might start the game but in modern terms it would be stupid to have him on the bench! What basis in fact is there for that comment?

Bugnug

stephen_n wrote: »

Seriously I'm a Leinster fan and what has that got to do with anything except stupid tribal BS and paranoia. Horgan is in great form for Leinster but is nowhere near good enough to replace Bowe who is considered one of the best 14's in Europe at the moment! On the bench you need players who can cover the back three not just one wing and Horgan does not offer that and that is why he won't be considered. If Bowe got injured before the 6N horgan might start the game but in modern terms it would be stupid to have him on the bench! What basis in fact is there for that comment?

Have a look at my post again. I never suggested that SH should replace Bowe. I said his experience in the squad would be very valuable to the younger backs coming through. Now go and have a look at the squad that was picked for the AI's by Kidney. Spot any over the hill sub standard Munster players?

stephen_n

Bugnug wrote: »

Have a look at my post again. I never suggested that SH should replace Bowe. I said his experience in the squad would be very valuable to the younger backs coming through. Now go and have a look at the squad that was picked for the AI's by Kidney. Spot any over the hill sub standard Munster players?

And if you read my post you will see I never suggested that you did. I pointed out that with Bowe in the squad you couldn't have Horgan on the bench because he doesn't provide adequate cover for enough positions, which is the major flaw in your completely lopsided argument, which you would prefer to ignore so you can push a Munster bias in Kidney's selections which doesn't exist!

Bugnug

stephen_n wrote: »

Seriously I'm a Leinster fan and what has that got to do with anything except stupid tribal BS and paranoia. Horgan is in great form for Leinster but is nowhere near good enough to replace Bowe who is considered one of the best 14's in Europe at the moment! On the bench you need players who can cover the back three not just one wing and Horgan does not offer that and that is why he won't be considered. If Bowe got injured before the 6N horgan might start the game but in modern terms it would be stupid to have him on the bench! What basis in fact is there for that comment?

Where did I say Horgan should be on the bench?

toomevara

Gentlemen, 'tis the season of goodwill and all that so wind it in a bit, ta.

Bugnug

Funny how when Leinster supporters show frustration at DK for his Munster bias, the MOD's jump in asking us to calm it down. Interesting.;)

RuggieBear

Bugnug wrote: »

Funny how when Leinster supporters show frustration at DK for his Munster bias, the MOD's jump in asking us to calm it down. Interesting.;)

banned

do not question mod decisions on thread.

Tim Robbins

Horgan was on the form of his life this time last year. Then his form dipped after he got injured.

I think rotation and rest is exceptionally important in rugby now. Every professional team should be doing it.

Leinster are on fire now but I'd be surprised after a tough 6 nations if the big names will be 100% fit. By the time the semi's came last year, half the team looked unfit, carrying injuries and badly needing to be rested.

CouchSmart

He's just unlucky that Bowe is ahead of him. He'll be involved in the 6N squads I'd say, probably get some games with the A team. If Bowe got injured he's back in the team.

CouchSmart

CouchSmart wrote: »

He's just unlucky that Bowe is ahead of him. He'll be involved in the 6N squads I'd say, probably get some games with the A team. If Bowe got injured he's back in the team.

He'd be very handy if BOD got injured. Bowe to centre with Horgan coming into the wing

danthefan

He's in fantastic form for Leinster and I'd probably bring him in if Bowe got injured but aside from that I don't think he should be picked for Ireland. He doesn't have much time left playing at this level and it's better to go with the younger guys imo.

He's undropable for Leinster now though imo.

SomeFool

Deleted User wrote: »

He'd be very handy if BOD got injured. Bowe to centre with Horgan coming into the wing

This!

Anyone else think that Kearney and Fitz have a fight on their hands to break back into the Leinster back 3 this season? I think Nacewa, Horgan and McFaddan have been outstanding lately, great to see competition which will only benefit Ireland.

thomond2006

SomeFool wrote: »

Anyone else think that Kearney and Fitz have a fight on their hands to break back into the Leinster back 3 this season? I think Nacewa, Horgan and McFaddan have been outstanding lately, great to see competition which will only benefit Ireland.

No. They're the international players, they'll come straight back in. The failings of the IRFU contract system laid bare right there.

Stev_o

His days of being a international standard winger are gone and there are far better wingers in squad to choose from.

Tim Robbins

Stev_o wrote: »

His days of being a international standard winger are gone and there are far better wingers in squad to choose from.

As someone said somewhere, there are very few players who have everything. BOD is one of them.

Horgan's passing is a bit wayward at times. His defense is very good. Earls speed is superb and anticipation is superb but his finishing isn't - he gets held up a lot or just bundled into touch for try opportunities that a world class winger (or back) would take. I doubt he would have got some of the tries shaggy has - for example the triple crown try. Trimble sometimes doesn't make the best use of what's going on around him and just seems to be a bit pre-programmed. It would be interesting to see Carr at a higher level and he deserves his chance but until we see it we don't know. Bowe is our best overall winger, followed by Fitz. Haven't seen enough of McFadden in that position.

I think what we need to be doing is moving players around more. It's pretty obvious there's a lot of decent backs in Leinster and they should be getting game time. McFadden is 26 next year.

Badgermonkey

SomeFool wrote: »

This!

Anyone else think that Kearney and Fitz have a fight on their hands to break back into the Leinster back 3 this season? I think Nacewa, Horgan and McFaddan have been outstanding lately, great to see competition which will only benefit Ireland.

Was very impressed by McFaddens stint on the wing, he makes intelligent decisions when he's on the ball and has an all round skillset which is hard to ignore.

Kearney infuriates me with his inconsistency and Fitz, though a fine player, is not blessed with talents above and beyond his fellow players, as he was at schools level.

Love him, but he doesn't offer enough to be near the national squad imo.

He's an adequate replacement in times when we are short players, but I don't think he could be expected to challenge Bowe at 14.

Potentially changing the backline if BOD were to be injured could see his inclusion, but I'm not sure that this is the right strategy. I think playing our best players out of position in order to fill gaps left by others will hurt us in the long run if this happened.

We need to blood a new 13 who is an out and out 13, we're less than 24 months away from being BODless imo.

LuckyLloyd

Having him in the squad would serve little purpose. He has had a fine career, and is still very serviceable at Heineken Cup level. But he is only going to disimprove from here, and isn't versatile enough to warrant inclusion on the bench at present.

Teej

Would expect him to make extended squad for 6N & WC but not to make match day 22 (unless we miraculously discover the art of rotation). He's one of my all time favourites but unfortunately lacks pace & concentration on occasion. Felt so bad for him sitting in the stands watching Bernard Dunne on Grand Slam night after all he had contributed to the national team over the years(at least until the alcohol induced deleria set in) & really admire the way he's performed since losing starting status yet cannot reasonably barrack for him to regain a starting international spot in a knock out game. Very valuable/invaluable squad member but no space for him in an international knock-out 22 at the moment

MidlandsMan69

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Was very impressed by McFaddens stint on the wing, he makes intelligent decisions when he's on the ball and has an all round skillset which is hard to ignore.

Kearney infuriates me with his inconsistency and Fitz, though a fine player, is not blessed with talents above and beyond his fellow players, as he was at schools level.

couldn't disagree more about fitz here.fantastic player and if u were to be talking bout an all round skillset thats hard to ignore,it would be fitz's.i'd feel comfortable with him playing anywhere in the backline internationally,outside 9+10 obviously.may be weak in kicking department but better than mcfadden in this area and all others.

mcfadden is a quality player and is gunning for a spot in leinster backline but fitz is untouchable imo

danthefan

The only thing Fitz is missing is that extra yard of pace, has everything else in terms of passing/offloading, defence, intelligence, workrate.

Lawstudent1

Just something that keeps irking me -
So what if Horgan doesn't have long left. He'll be around for the World Cup and in the kind of form hes in right now he should be our second choice 14. Whilst he shouldn't make the bench due to his lack of versatility, should Bowe get injured then Horgan should most definitely be starting. Also to the best of my knowledge, Horgan is only a few months older than the likes of O'Callaghan, O'Driscoll, O'Gara and is actually younger than Stringer yet I haven't heard those players being dismissed because of age.

If it was 2012 and it was AIs or 6 nations then I'd agree, its time to build but for World Cup if Horgan is in good form and deserves his spot then he should get it. Just like Stringer, O'Callaghan, O'Driscoll and O'Gara

profitius

SH's performances dipped in the last few years but this season he's playing as good as he has ever played. Schmidt has had a positive effect on Leinster.

I think Kidney included SH in many of his squads so I's say he'll be going to the world cup.

sock puppet

profitius wrote: »

SH's performances dipped in the last few years but this season he's playing as good as he has ever played. Schmidt has had a positive effect on Leinster.

I think Kidney included SH in many of his squads so I's say he'll be going to the world cup.

Probably. Though with Earls, Fitzgerald, Bowe, Horgan and Trimble one should lose out, probably Horgan or Trimble.

[Jackass]

Shane Horgans days in an Irish jersey are pretty much numbered, and kind of understandably.

He has been absolutely immense for Leinster and is the 4th or 5th highest try scorer in Heineken Cup rugby and about 3rd highest for Ireland - his record is phenominal, and he's still playing some of his best rugby. I think he could be worth his place in the world cup squad as cover, but his lack of a kicking game as a back 3 player and his relative lack of versatility (as a back 3 player, he can more or less only play 14) mean he's tough to pick in an Irish squad.

In terms of Leinster, the guy is a living legend with god status amongst fans.

You only have to look at him when all the international players have been away, or when they were picking up their grand slam medals, after Horgan was such a massive part of everything that went before, he didn't just fade into the background or decline like most players do once it seems international recognition is gone, but he showed amazing character and attitude and played some of the best rugby of his career as result and broke into tears when the final whistle went in Edinburgh that same season.

He's full of passion, hard as nails, commitment and desire, he's a true Leinster man, blue through and through, and I couldn't have any more admoration for the guy, and he's an amazing sqaud player at Leinster - mighn't be picked or even make the bench when all are fit, but you know, if there's an injury or you need to bring him in, he'll find his form immediatley and be a massive physical threat on the wing, great ariel ability for cross field kick options and a great attitude with bags of pace, which he isn't always given credit for, and I remember around the 06 or 07 seasons saying on here that he was by far the best finisher in the Irish squad, and he was! (lots of England tries spring to mind). He may not be any more, but he's certainly a massive asset to Leinster and is a fantastic back-up full of quality and he is an amazing standard of player to bring in when the internationals are away also.

Good man Shane, a true Leinster legend!

durkadurka

Yeah he's defo a Leinster legend, he's not first choice but nearly always plays and usually delivers. Him and Isa really beef up the backline when the galacticos ara away. I still youtube that pass out to bod against brive last year to get the bp , when we chanted his name for 5 minutes afterwards. That was just before his injury.

He did some terrible stuff against clermont in April mind you but he's in great firm this year.

I fear that Carr is seen as the replacement for him though

whysomoody

Deleted User wrote: »

He'd be very handy if BOD got injured. Bowe to centre with Horgan coming into the wing

Any Winger could do that!

thomond2006 wrote: »

No. They're the international players, they'll come straight back in. The failings of the IRFU contract system laid bare right there.

That, and the fact they are much better players!

Sofa King Great

Gaffney doesn't like him.


Besides that he is no longer an international standard winger. Still an absolute legend though

danthefan

Sofa King Great wrote: »

Gaffney doesn't like him.


Besides that he is no longer an international standard winger. Still an absolute legend though

Where are people getting this sort of nonsense from. Horgan is playing as well as he ever has. He was very much an international standard winger, therefore he still is an international standard winger. If he came into the Irish team he would 100% do a fine job.

Sofa King Great

danthefan wrote: »

Where are people getting this sort of nonsense from. Horgan is playing as well as he ever has. He was very much an international standard winger, therefore he still is an international standard winger. If he came into the Irish team he would 100% do a fine job.

He doesnt have the pace he used have. There are players out there who are better than him. This means he is not of a high enough standard to play for Ireland anymore.

irishbucsfan

Sofa King Great wrote: »

He doesnt have the pace he used have. There are players out there who are better than him. This means he is not of a high enough standard to play for Ireland anymore.

I remember people kept saying he didn't have his old pace last year and then he ran the pitch against Llanelli

wixfjord

Sofa King Great wrote: »

He doesnt have the pace he used have.

That smells like an unfounded critique used when any international winger gets on. Oh and this says different!

Sofa King Great wrote: »

There are players out there who are better than him.

Not as a right winger, and certainly not on this form, obviously bar Bowe, but nobody's saying he should start in front of Bowe.

Sofa King Great wrote: »

This means he is not of a high enough standard to play for Ireland anymore.

Eh?! Even if the above two points were true, no it does not.

funky penguin

As controversial as this will probably sound, I'd rate him a better right winger than Bowe, on present form (marginal though).

But I'd still have Bowe in the Irish team ahead of him because he can cover centre to a great standard. Plus he's excellent, of course!

thomond2006

Horgan has been and still is a class act. Definitely still up to international level, I'd have no fears of putting him straight in if Bowe got hurt.

whysomoody

I would much rather see Carr in the team than Horgan.