Picture of a car using the m50 toll.

Nissan doctor

Has anyone ever had needed to get a picture from e-flow of their car using(or allegedly using) the M50 toll?

The story so far is the wife received a letter from e-flow asking for €12 for using the toll on a certain day. Now they had her reg on the letter but on the day in question she and the car were at home all day due to the weather, and home is over 100 kms away from the M50 toll and whats more, the car is only 2 months old and has NEVER been across the M50 toll!
When she rang she was told it was her car without question and if we wanted to claim it wasn't or it was a car with a false reg we'd have to go to the garda! I went down to the local station and the garda on duty had never heard anything like it from the toll but he said that I should request the picture of the car from them. I did this on the 16th of December and they have still not sent a picture, they did however send another letter acknowledging receipt of the picture request but saying that they have looked into it and it was our car without question and we have to pay. My wife rang them again and was told that it was her car without question, despite the fact that it was snowbound on the day. She demanded that they send a picture of the car as we will be taking it further but as yet, we haven't received anything from them and its really starting to seem like we aren't going to get anywhere with them.

Has anyone ever had a similar issue or had to get a picture from e-flow? If it is a car on false plates how much detail is in the pictures? just reg/whole car/driver etc?

I know people get charged wrongly all the time by e-flow(including both myself and the wife in the past) and it is normally easily sorted but has anyone any idea why they are being so pigheaded and unhelpful about this? new management/policy?

Thanks in advance..

alias no.9

I got a late charge for the toll once and it came with a picture, I didn't request it.

Absurdum

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I know people get charged wrongly all the time by e-flow(including both myself and the wife in the past) and it is normally easily sorted but has anyone any idea why they are being so pigheaded and unhelpful about this? new management/policy?

"without question" me hole. It sounds like they are trying to bully her into paying, suggesting that she should go to the Gardai is ridiculous imo.

It's possible that someone's number plate was obscured by snow or ice and they are just being lazy.

Nissan doctor

The letter we got didn't have any picture, just the reg printed....:rolleyes:

KamiKazi

They have to provide proof, all the cameras are front facing (they don't catch bikes as bikes don't have plates on the front). Tell them to provide you with pictures or you'll be considering the matter as an error on their part and as such, closed.

guil

the only time i got one it had 2 pics, 1 of the reg and 1 of the car

January

Ring them and tell them that if they don't produce the picture within five working days then you'll be consulting your solicitor.

RobertM

guil wrote: »

the only time i got one it had 2 pics, 1 of the reg and 1 of the car

Same here.

The first penalty they send you, you'll only get the reg number, the time the car has passed the toll. If you don't pay this they'll send you another one

The second one you get is with the added fine of 39.50 (IIRC) + pictures of the car. 2 to be precise.

guil

adrieanne__x wrote: »

Ring them and tell them that if they don't produce the picture within five working days then you'll be consulting your solicitor.

i wouldnt even bother with any of that, if the op is sure the car was at home i'd just ignore them

YourName

Was in a similar situation myself and basically needed the pic. They did everything in their power not to send me the picture. Got the same response as yourself about it being 100 percent my car.

I told the idiot on the phone at one stage that somebody must have stolen my car to get over to the southside and nicely dropped it back to me without me noticing, so I wanted the picture to drop it up to the guards, she nicely told me some bull that basically the picture is only taken of the reg but somehow the "Investigations team" can "work on the image" to get a picture of the driver, sounds miraculous to me tbh, as I wasn't sure that was possible if the picture was only taken of the reg :rolleyes:.

In the end, I never got the pic, but the case miraculously closed, following a letter to the solicitor, nice . . . . . .

Nissan doctor

guil wrote: »

i wouldnt even bother with any of that, if the op is sure the car was at home i'd just ignore them

That would be what I'd like to do but by their responces up to now it seems obvious they are going to keep going with this..

The reason I want pictures is to confirm the car type/colour etc and then go back to the garda I was speaking with as if it is our reg/car type(car would be fairly rare on the road) etc then a toll charge might not be the worst thing to land on our doorstep!

-Corkie-

They done it to me aswell for a car that was crashed in the yard. The fee went over 200 euro. Luckily my bro in law is a barrister so a letter from him sorted it out including an apology from them.;)

sh1tstirrer

YourName wrote: »

In the end, I never got the pic, but the case miraculously closed, following a letter to the solicitor, nice . . . . . .

But a solicitors letter costs €120 last time I checked

guil

Nissan doctor wrote: »

That would be what I'd like to do but by their responces up to now it seems obvious they are going to keep going with this..

The reason I want pictures is to confirm the car type/colour etc and then go back to the garda I was speaking with as if it is our reg/car type(car would be fairly rare on the road) etc then a toll charge might not be the worst thing to land on our doorstep!

if ya ignore them they will send the pic

Seth Brundle

adrieanne__x wrote: »

Ring them and tell them that if they don't produce the picture within five working days then you'll be consulting your solicitor.

Ringing isn't worth the paper its not written on!
Keep all correspondance to written communication and not verbal.

Nissan doctor wrote: »

That would be what I'd like to do but by their responces up to now it seems obvious they are going to keep going with this..

The reason I want pictures is to confirm the car type/colour etc and then go back to the garda I was speaking with as if it is our reg/car type(car would be fairly rare on the road) etc then a toll charge might not be the worst thing to land on our doorstep!

As KamiKazi mentioned, tell them to provide proof given that your wife was nowhere near the M50, etc. and that the matter is a simple error.
Without any form of proof then you will consider the issue to be erroneous on their behalf and the matter will be closed.

kildarelad

I had the same problem with them.Had a micra sitting in my garage as it was off the road and got a letter saying it had gone through the toll rang them and after an hour of arguing it turned out the numberplate was on a van that had the last bit of the number plate broke off which meant the number was the same as my car

opinion guy

YourName wrote: »

she nicely told me some bull that basically the picture is only taken of the reg but somehow the "Investigations team" can "work on the image" to get a picture of the driver, sounds miraculous to me tbh, as I wasn't sure that was possible if the picture was only taken of the reg :rolleyes:.

Haven't you seen CSI ??? By chance a fly may have been flying through the shot at the time of the photo - if so they can ultrazoom into his eyeball and pick up a reflection of who was driving the car. Then using facial modelling software they can reproduce a 3d image of the person driving and cross reference it with the FBI database Pulse system and do a 9 point comparison and identify the suspect.....obviously. With the latest software updates they can even tell you what the driver (and the fly) had for breakfast!!!

ardmacha

Ring them and tell them that if they don't produce the picture within five working days then you'll be consulting your solicitor.

In the first instance formally request (i.e. in writing) a copy of the picture under the Data Protection act.

Don't waste money on more phone calls or especially on a solicitor at this stage.

greenermetals

there seems to be a few problems with this e toll system, i had experience with a similar incident, thinking it mustve been cloned plates. whenever the relevant docs were sent to authorities they went strangely quiet, we ahevnt heard anything about it since.

Other thread was on
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056093418

subway

happened me before, called up, got the run around, told to get garda letter.
went to gardai, they rang the operators,garda got the run around off them also with the same response and unwillingness to listen to reason or provide any evidence.

in the end he wrote a letter to them saying it wasnt me and they sent out an apology

mickdw

If they are not willing to send out the picture, it seems to me that they dont have it - well at least dont have one that matches your car. Put everything in writing and dont give in to them.

SouperComputer

Unless they can produce a pic with such quality that shows it was your CAR beyond all reasonable doubt, tell them where to go.

Only a pic of a reg? Sorry not good enough, they cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that it is the car in question, reg's get cloned and as pointed out, characters fall off ro get damaged. All it shows is that same or similar characters on it passed through the toll.. If you've received written confirmation that they have received your pic request, leave it at that.

the_syco

Ask them what type of car it is, what colour it is, and was there a passenger in the car?

Redderneck

A letter to them, do not ring, stating that as the car was parked up on the day in question, you are requesting they produce a picture within 5 working days, is step one. In this letter state politely but clearly that you will regard failure to receive such a picture within five working days as inability on their part to support their claim and a tacit admission of an error on their side and that you fully understand how such errors can happen to the best of systems, but will regard the matter as closed.

Request that they contact you in writing should they have any comments/questions.

Mention also that you are copying your solicitor on this and any future correspondence sent/received.

I had this out with them about 18 months ago and when I stated that my wife's employer could verify that her car was automatically logged into a staff carpark in Shannon four hours prior to being tolled on the M50 and not logged out until she left the office about 3 hours after it was supposedly tolled; they grudgingly accepted that an error might have been made.

Clowns.

mcwhirter

Eflow are a joke, shift your tag to a different provider and give them the finger

subway

mcwhirter wrote: »

Eflow are a joke, shift your tag to a different provider and give them the finger

eflow operate the m50 toll service so you cant avoid them

TheElf

I was in a similar position last year, got a letter about paying the toll when I hadn't been anywhere near the M50, I rang them and they said I'd have to pay, so I told them I'd just be ignoring it, and that I did, few weeks later I got another letter with a bigger fine, but also a pic of the car, which was a completely different model to mine, just a number plate with one digit off, So I rang them back and the guy on the phone,-in fairness to him- was polite and check my model against the picture and cleared the fine.

dingding

Had a problem with my tag. The operator was able to look at my car from a saved photo and tell me where about the tag was on the window.

Keith186

LIGHTNING wrote: »

To be honest you went out of your way to cover up their mistake. If they are too lazy to look at the photo and look at your reg number I wouldnt bother ringing them. Let them send you out lots of letters, in fact let the hire some goons to come to your house

I wish I was in that situation. I'd just ignore it until I was summonsed then bring the picture in with me to show the judge that it wasn't my car. Don't think he'd be impressed with eflow then!

mcwhirter

subway wrote: »

eflow operate the m50 toll service so you cant avoid them

I used to use them as my tag provider but had similar problems as described here. Since moving to EASYTRIP I have had no problems, zilch.

Move away from Eflow, they are a joke of a company, too many complaints on boards about Eflow

subway

mcwhirter wrote: »

I used to use them as my tag provider but had similar problems as described here. Since moving to EASYTRIP I have had no problems, zilch.

Move away from Eflow, they are a joke of a company, too many complaints on boards about Eflow

http://www.eflow.ie/about/

Who we are
eFlow is operated on behalf of the National Roads Authority by BetEire Flow

eflow run the toll on the m50. even if you are with easypass the charge is still processed by eflow

GTE

SouperComputer wrote: »

Unless they can produce a pic with such quality that shows it was your CAR beyond all reasonable doubt, tell them where to go.

Only a pic of a reg? Sorry not good enough, they cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that it is the car in question, reg's get cloned and as pointed out, characters fall off ro get damaged. All it shows is that same or similar characters on it passed through the toll.. If you've received written confirmation that they have received your pic request, leave it at that.

I did some scanning work for my Dad and went though a whole box full of false *lost the word* claims that the car went though the toll. Mind is blank .

Anyway, he had the tag but it would never work on the M50. Even though he explained the situation we would get all the warning letters with pictures etc.

I could see what ties and jackets my family were wearing as they went though the toll!

Eventually things got sorted and they stopped sending us these letters even though the tag was picking up the payment.

mcwhirter

subway wrote: »

http://www.eflow.ie/about/



eflow run the toll on the m50. even if you are with easypass the charge is still processed by eflow

ok thats fine. Now tell me why I had lots of incorrect charges when my account was with eflow. When it was switched to easypass, no problems.

Have you not seen all the issues with eflow reported here, I don't see many from people with their accounts with the other companies.

Mr. Manager

My guess would be that easypass are picking up the slack (errors) from eflow, making themselves looking better in front of the customer, in this case, you.

subway

mcwhirter wrote: »

ok thats fine. Now tell me why I had lots of incorrect charges when my account was with eflow. When it was switched to easypass, no problems.

Have you not seen all the issues with eflow reported here, I don't see many from people with their accounts with the other companies.

this isn't a thread about over charging
its about eflow sending out letters to people when they havent been through the toll. why would i be talking about a bill?

L1011

subway wrote: »

eflow run the toll on the m50. even if you are with easypass the charge is still processed by eflow

The charge is processed by your tag provider, whoever that is; irrespective of what toll you use.

The only "problems" I've had with the M50 was one of my cars went invisible on it for about 6 months. Tag would beep, no charge, no letters, no nothing. Unfortunately they fixed it, but they didn't charge the 100 quid or so they were missing.

subway

MYOB wrote: »

The charge is processed by your tag provider, whoever that is; irrespective of what toll you use.

if you get fined for non payment, then you hardly have an electronic tag...
is this going over everyone's head but me?

L1011

subway wrote: »

if you get fined for non payment, then you hardly have an electronic tag...
is this going over everyone's head but me?

The point is that eFlow are incompetent to the point that tag holders get charged for phantom journies, etc.

pippip

After reading this thread I think I'll go over my monthly statements a bit closer. With easy trip myself but if the machines are mis-reading this much I'll have to make sure no extra journeys are being added to my account and being paid without me knowing.

MaryDub

A work colleague had a similar problem with eflow. turned out that the guy she sold her car to never changed the owner details with Shannon and so she was charged instead of him. You said you only bought your car recently, maybe check this out? Otherwise call them again and just ask them to send the image out, ive had a few dealing with them and tbh they're very good and will want to get this sorted for you.

mcwhirter

subway wrote: »

this isn't a thread about over charging
its about eflow sending out letters to people when they havent been through the toll. why would i be talking about a bill?

I also got letters fron eflow, idiots they are.

91011

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I know people get charged wrongly all the time by e-flow(including both myself and the wife in the past) and it is normally easily sorted but has anyone any idea why they are being so pigheaded and unhelpful about this? new management/policy?

Thanks in advance..

It is so simple.

If you know 100% you did not use it, simply write back to them with copy of the demand letter and inform them you did not use it and that you will not be making any further response unless and until they decide to bring it to court.

And remind them that the court will require the same basic proof of useage (photo) as you have requested and their refusal to provide such proof will void their claim.

Then ignore all further correspondance from them / or send the EXACT same reply each time.

Seth Brundle

91011 wrote: »

It is so simple.

If you know 100% you did not use it, simply write back to them with copy of the demand letter and inform them you did not use it and that you will not be making any further response unless and until they decide to bring it to court.

And remind them that the court will require the same basic proof of useage (photo) as you have requested and their refusal to provide such proof will void their claim.

Then ignore all further correspondance from them / or send the EXACT same reply each time.

One slight flaw with the overall idea

nice_guy80

I actually did go over the M50 toll on December 23rd in the evening.
There was very heavy snow coming down, very poor visibility and I'm fairly sure the front number place was totally covered in snow...

I totally forgot to pay the toll as I was picking someone up from airport. Got a letter asking me for €6 from e-flow.

How did they find out it was me?

GTE

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I actually did go over the M50 toll on December 23rd in the evening.
There was very heavy snow coming down, very poor visibility and I'm fairly sure the front number place was totally covered in snow...

I totally forgot to pay the toll as I was picking someone up from airport. Got a letter asking me for €6 from e-flow.

How did they find out it was me?

Yer arse?

Seth Brundle

bbk wrote: »

Yer arse?

Unless he was driving in reverse, the front facing cameras are unlikely to have captured his "arse"!

Doom

Nissan doctor wrote: »

That would be what I'd like to do but by their responces up to now it seems obvious they are going to keep going with this..

The reason I want pictures is to confirm the car type/colour etc and then go back to the garda I was speaking with as if it is our reg/car type(car would be fairly rare on the road) etc then a toll charge might not be the worst thing to land on our doorstep!

The reg might be correctly read, maybe its a cloned reg number, supposed to be lots of them about...:(

Nissan doctor

And update on this, got it sorted. A strongly worded letter mentioning our solicitor and the name of the Garda we spoke to in our local station was sent and the next day we got a call from a guy telling us the charge would be immediately removed and that he would sent the pictures. What we got a couple of days later were to low res black and white images showing 2 headlights and a reg plate!:rolleyes:

Cheers for the replies...

opinion guy

Nissan doctor wrote: »

And update on this, got it sorted. A strongly worded letter mentioning our solicitor and the name of the Garda we spoke to in our local station was sent and the next day we got a call from a guy telling us the charge would be immediately removed and that he would sent the pictures. What we got a couple of days later were to low res black and white images showing 2 headlights and a reg plate!:rolleyes:

Cheers for the replies...

Glad you got it sorted but still this whole story seems wrong. Is ther a regulator you can report it to ? Or hell, even the fraud squad, since they were basically trying to extort you.