Educate Me?

Daniel2oo9

Im a HUGE MMA Fan and starting to really like boxing,i train MMA So i Know Basic Boxing,i Just need some education on the belt holders and who the Top fighters are.Im a Fan Of Pacquaio and Barrera!

Thanks,

cowzerp

Heavyweight check out the klitschko brothers,
floyd mayweather is unreal and you should check him out
Style wise i like kermit cintron, amir khan.....

I would highly recommend you you tube past greats such as sugar ray Leonard, Muhammed Ali, Thomas hearns, mike Tyson

Past exciting fighters to watch highlights of, tommy morrison, Shannon Briggs,
Roberto Duran, Eric morales, naseem hamed, Nigel benn, the list just goes on.

Ps, I barely touched on present day boxers or historic ones here

joepenguin

I wouldnt worry about the belt holders as there are tons of them. You have the wba, wbc, wbo and ibf. These are the major governing bodies, so its like having 4 ufc's as boxing has such a long tradition. Since the ufc has a monopoly on mma its easier to tell who the true champion is as all the other promotions are generally inferior.

So you are as well to look at the top fighters. You mentioned Pacqiaou who is considered the number one fighter in the world. He is fighting Shane Mosely who is past his best but was awesome in his day. Youtube Mosely vs Mayorga, 12th round.

Sergio Matinez is the man at middleweight. He beat Kelly Pavlik for the title and defended against the one of the worlds most avoided fighters Paul Williams. Martinez can still make light middleweight and there was talk of a Pacqiaou fight at a catch weight.
In the same division you have 3 other champions and although decent they are just belt holders. Martinez is the linear champ, he beat the man who beat the man etc.
There is also 3 Irish fighters at middleweight. Matthew Macklin who is the european champ and will likely fight for world honours this year. Youtube Macklin-Moore for an awesome scrap from 2006.
Andy Lee is still in the running for a crack at Martinez for the world middlweight championship. Many feel he is undeserving due to the level of opposition he has faced but he is ranked highly. youtube andy lee carl daniels for an awesome one punch ko.
John Duddy is also still in the mix but failed to beat Mexicos Jullio Cesar Chave jr earlier in the year, this alone left duddy out of the world title picture. Should another Irish fighter get a title a duddy fight would be natural assuming the derry man is ranked high enough.

Keeping with Irish fighters Willie Casey is challenging for a version of a world title in City west March 19th. He faces the greatest olympic boxer in history when he taks on cuban sensation Guillermo Rigondaeux. The cuban is only 7-0 as a pro but as a 2 time olympic gold medallist he is takin the fast track. Casey has moved through the pro ranks swiflty also and is the current European super bantamweight champion after just 11 fights.

Bernard Hopkins recently fought to a draw with canadas Jean Pascal for the world light heavyweight championship in Canada. Hopkins was bidding to be the oldest ever world champ (one month shy of his 46th birthday)and only just came up short with many feeling he did enough to win. He has also spoke of fighting at heavyweight in the future.

Another lad heading to Canada to fight is Irelands Brian Magee. The European champion takes on the #1 super middlweight in the world Lucian Bute on the same night (march 19th) as casey vs rigo. Magee could have held out for an easier world title fight against wba champ sartison but is now taking on the actual number one in the division.

As for the heavies David Haye holds a world belt and will hopefully fight one or both of the Klitschko brothers (#1 & 2 in the division) in 2011.

Carl Frampton.... remember the name!!!

Light welterweight and Featherweight are two hot divison at the mo and will surely throw up some great match ups in the year.

Websites:
www.eastsideboxing.com to keep up to date on the world scene.
www.boxing-ireland.com for the latest developments in Irish boxing.
http://boxrec.com/ a database of who fought who, rankings and upcoming fights.

Oh and Barrera is a legend!!!

Welcome to the boxing forum btw! Hope ya find some of that helpful. Unless otherwise stated i listed the proper world champions and some Irish fighters on or near the world stage.

gene_tunney

Watch all of Arturo Gatti vs Micky Ward I.

weemcd

3 Words: Juan Manuel Márquez

joepenguin

joepenguin wrote: »

Keeping with Irish fighters Willie Casey is challenging for a version of a world title in City west March 19th. He faces the greatest olympic boxer in history when he taks on cuban sensation Guillermo Rigondaeux. The cuban is only 7-0 as a pro but as a 2 time olympic gold medallist he is takin the fast track. Casey has moved through the pro ranks swiflty also and is the current European super bantamweight champion after just 11 fights..

I reckon Rigondaeux will beat him, that fight that Casey one in Neptune months back I'll never understand why the fight was stopped, that French dude was well able for it.

colly10

Ok, forget the belts cause the organisations are currently a mess, if you want to know who you should look at currently here's the ring magazine current top 10 pound for pound list -

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Sergio Martinez
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Nonito Donaire
6. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
7. Fernando Montiel
8. Wladimir Klitschko
9. Timothy Bradley
10. Juan Manuel Lopez

The one's highlighted in red are usually good to watch, forget Marquez v Mayweather, Marquez is generally great to watch, an outstanding technical fighter who's also willing to go to war.
Ones that arn't in the list that are worth a watch would be Khan, Froch, Ward and Johnson, there's many but thats just off the top of my head.
Generally fights are late on Saturday night, you'll get them uploaded to here around midday the following day (or maybe slightly later) -

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=148

Over the last 20 years my favourites would be -

Roy Jones Jr (My favorite of all time). I found him beautiful to watch in his prime, amazing natural talent, nearly all his fights can be found on the link above, 2 career tribute videos (If you watch any tribute I posted, watch the first from start to finish) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDWnMXzgeZo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt-e7_yxQpg

Great Tyson Tribute -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGtX8Woz4RM

Then if you go back to the 80's there was Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns (although it's hard to get good quality video from then)

To get you started you can download a brilliant fight (Jose Luis Castillo vs Diego Corrales I). It's here - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4JV3T1DY
Well worth watching

keane=cock

colly10 wrote: »

Ones that arn't in the list that are worth a watch would be Khan, Froch, Ward and Green, there's many but thats just off the top of my head.

disagree on these too. both boring to watch in my opinion.

great call on corrales n castillo though. my favourite fight of all time

weemcd

Very good documentary on Tyson, shows some training, some boxing philospohy, how boxers start out and amateur, then Tyson's meteoric rise to the title, and his subsequent downfall, its the kind of story you couldn't really make up.

Wild_Dogger

weemcd wrote: »

Very good documentary on Tyson, shows some training, some boxing philospohy, how boxers start out and amateur, then Tyson's meteoric rise to the title, and his subsequent downfall, its the kind of story you couldn't really make up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W23rGX_JS8&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

colly10

keane=cock wrote: »

disagree on these too. both boring to watch in my opinion.

great call on corrales n castillo though. my favourite fight of all time

Ment Ward and Johnson, Green is terrible to watch, looking forward to seeing Johnson again in the super 6

Spazdarn

The Gatti and Ward trilogy was deadly but I think Vasquez and Marquez first three fights were better. I know they had a pretty **** fourth recently but the only three were brilliant

djhaxman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjBexyCXh9Q

Nuff said.

adelarge1

you should watch james toney vs. evander holyfield, beautiful to watch skill wise.

walshb

A couple of stunning displays to wet the appetitie are
Mayweather's destruction of Corrales and James Toney's
display of brilliance vs. Iran Barkley...

Bernard Dunne commented that Toney was the most naturally
gifted fighter that he had ever seen. And he seen him up close.

boxer.fan

to be honest books could be written on this stuff and probably have. My own personal favourite boxers from the past are: Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Arturo Gatti, Kostya Tszyu and Jake la Motta, to name a few.

Present day active fighters I like to follow are: Manny Pacquiao, Miguel Cotto, Floyd Mayweather and Daniel Ponce de Leon.

lolie

colly10 wrote: »

Ok, forget the belts cause the organisations are currently a mess, if you want to know who you should look at currently here's the ring magazine current top 10 pound for pound list -

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Sergio Martinez
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Nonito Donaire
6. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
7. Fernando Montiel
8. Wladimir Klitschko
9. Timothy Bradley
10. Juan Manuel Lopez

The one's highlighted in red are usually good to watch, forget Marquez v Mayweather, Marquez is generally great to watch, an outstanding technical fighter who's also willing to go to war.
Ones that arn't in the list that are worth a watch would be Khan, Froch, Ward and Johnson, there's many but thats just off the top of my head.
Generally fights are late on Saturday night, you'll get them uploaded to here around midday the following day (or maybe slightly later) -

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=148

Over the last 20 years my favourites would be -

Roy Jones Jr (My favorite of all time). I found him beautiful to watch in his prime, amazing natural talent, nearly all his fights can be found on the link above, 2 career tribute videos (If you watch any tribute I posted, watch the first from start to finish) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDWnMXzgeZo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt-e7_yxQpg

Great Tyson Tribute -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGtX8Woz4RM

Then if you go back to the 80's there was Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns (although it's hard to get good quality video from then)

To get you started you can download a brilliant fight (Jose Luis Castillo vs Diego Corrales I). It's here - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4JV3T1DY
Well worth watching

jones was some boy alright, heard a lot about him in the 90's but the first tarver fight was first full fight i seen of his. pity he didnt fight calzage years earlier. silly question but howd ya rekon jones v calzage wouldve faired out say 10 years ago?

colly10

lolie wrote: »

silly question but howd ya rekon jones v calzage wouldve faired out say 10 years ago?

A 90's Jones would have destroyed him imo. He had serious natural talent (and was boxer of the decade in the 90's), it's already been mentioned on this thread about how good James Toney was, Jones made him look like a bum

walshb

colly10 wrote: »

A 90's Jones would have destroyed him imo. He had serious natural talent (and was boxer of the decade in the 90's), it's already been mentioned on this thread about how good James Toney was, Jones made him look like a bum

Toney was badly weight drained, AND, that fight was a stinker, not as if Jones beat the hell out of him. Just stayed a step ahead throughout.

Toney IMO is a far more naturally gifted and schooled fighter
As for Calzaghe, he too was a few yrs past his peak when he met Roy...

megadodge

As usual the Toney apologist comes out with the "weight drained" bullsh*t.

Toney was no different than Ricky Hatton or Roberto Duran or countless other boxers who put on loads of weight between fights. He was always doing it and winning, then when he loses it becomes a perfect excuse!

Toney was NEVER in Roy Jones class. Not even close.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Toney was badly weight drained, AND, that fight was a stinker, not as if Jones beat the hell out of him. Just stayed a step ahead throughout.

Toney IMO is a far more naturally gifted and schooled fighter
As for Calzaghe, he too was a few yrs past his peak when he met Roy...

Would you care to tell us what "natural gift" Toney had that Jones didn't.

djburchgrove

megadodge wrote: »

As usual the Toney apologist comes out with the "weight drained" bullsh*t.

Toney was no different than Ricky Hatton or Roberto Duran or countless other boxers who put on loads of weight between fights. He was always doing it and winning, then when he loses it becomes a perfect excuse!

Toney was NEVER in Roy Jones class. Not even close.

A whole heartedly agree from me. Still love Duran though!

megadodge

So do I, and in fairness I didn't mean that Duran used it as an excuse - cos he didn't - I'm just saying Toney's fans should just accept that things were no different that night for Toney than any previous fight except the man in front of him was SO much better.

Johner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imZaiGJgbsw

the best round of boxing I've ever seen, still gives me goosebumps!

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Would you care to tell us what "natural gift" Toney had that Jones didn't.

He had that natural old school ability. 'In-fighting,' slick defense, and didn't have to rely as much on god given talents like speed and reflexes.

Roach himself said it, that James was the most naturally gifted he had ever coached.

Roy was more an athlete that was blessed with speed, reflexes etc.
When these went, Roy hadn't the old school tricks and resilience, and chin that Toney did.

BTW, regarding the weight. He was drained, but, I still think Roy more than not beats Toney
All about styles. Beats him in boring fashion may I add, no ass whupping, as Toney has never ever been ass whupped, unlike Roy!

lolie

roy went downhill very quick alright. espically in the second tarver fight

walshb

Why I love boxing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLG0u4Cjyt0&feature=related

Music is great too, particularly the clip from 2 mins 55

Boooourns

walshb wrote: »

Why I love boxing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLG0u4Cjyt0&feature=related

Music is great too, particularly the clip from 2 mins 55

Thats the Rocky music mate, it's great stuff.

makl

walshb wrote: »

Why I love boxing: ...

Music is great too, particularly the clip from 2 mins 55

just watchin precision comin up first - watched a few vids of dzinziruk, defo falls into that category, i think that's how he'll overcome martinez

colly10

walshb wrote: »

Toney was badly weight drained, AND, that fight was a stinker, not as if Jones beat the hell out of him. Just stayed a step ahead throughout.

Toney IMO is a far more naturally gifted and schooled fighter
As for Calzaghe, he too was a few yrs past his peak when he met Roy...

He was badly weight drained at a weight he had already fought at twice that year and was totally outclassed. I liked Toney, noone looked more relaxed than him in the ring and he was very hard to hit.
I don't see how he would be more naturally gifted though, Jones was very unconventional and his natural skill and ability was the only reason he got away with fighting the way he did (and he aged quickly and didn't get away with it once his speed and reflexes began to desert him)

Calzaghe was a little past his best, Jones was shot to bits

walshb

colly10 wrote: »

He was badly weight drained at a weight he had already fought at twice that year and was totally outclassed. I liked Toney, noone looked more relaxed than him in the ring and he was very hard to hit.
I don't see how he would be more naturally gifted though, Jones was very unconventional and his natural skill and ability was the only reason he got away with fighting the way he did (and he aged quickly and didn't get away with it once his speed and reflexes began to desert him)

Calzaghe was a little past his best, Jones was shot to bits

colly,

Who ever totally outclassed Toney? So so difficult to outclass. Outwork him, ok, but outclass?
Jones just stayed a step ahead. Watch the fight, boring, dull and far from a beating or an
outclassing

As for being naturally gifted. Jones and Toney were gifted in different ways.
Toney was as you say, so relaxed, fluid and smooth. Jones was blessed with speed and reflex traits. James was blessed with fluidity, resilience and a hell of a defence and chin. Also, Toney was IMO deal better on the inside, plus he could take a much better shot. Jones just never really had the traits and appetite for a real war. Hey, not dissing him for this, as he had the speed and reflexes to avoid wars; just that when he did get tagged clean, he couldn't take it. PLUS, I wouldn't be confident of Jones if he was involved in a war in the trenches. Hasn't the stomach for that type of fight. Toney always did.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

colly,

Who ever totally outclassed Toney? So so difficult to outclass. Outwork him, ok, but outclass?
Jones just stayed a step ahead. Watch the fight, boring, dull and far from a beating or an
outclassing

As for being naturally gifted. Jones and Toney were gifted in different ways.
Toney was as you say, so relaxed, fluid and smooth. Jones was blessed with speed and reflex traits. James was blessed with fluidity, resilience and a hell of a defence and chin. Also, Toney was IMO deal better on the inside, plus he could take a much better shot. Jones just never really had the traits and appetite for a real war. Hey, not dissing him for this, as he had the speed and reflexes to avoid wars; just that when he did get tagged clean, he couldn't take it. PLUS, I wouldn't be confident of Jones if he was involved in a war in the trenches. Hasn't the stomach for that type of fight. Toney always did.

Roy Jones outclassed Toney.

Toney virtually didn't lay a glove on him for 12 rounds. If that's not outclassing I don't know what is.

Even though Toney never looked like being stopped he never looked remotely like winning either. Jones was a step ahead, a move ahead, a class ahead. That, my friend is being outclassed, whether you want to admit it or not!

No excuses afterwards about bad decision, bad ref, gloves... basically none of the usual claptrap boxers are so fond of using. But someone popped up with the "weight drained" baby and it was completely ignored as everyone knew that Toney always put weight on between fights. However, over the years on internet forums this one has gathered momentum and in some people's heads it has become quite legitimate to state it as being a perfectly valid reason for being outclassed. It's not!

The reality is Toney always had problems with speedsters. Moreso footspeed than hand. When winning his title at middle v Michael Nunn he was a mile behind on points due to being unable to catch the fast-moving Californian. He did land a beauty of a left hook to end it, but the blueprint on how to beat him was pretty obvious. Jones was even better than Nunn.

In relation to Jones ability to take a punch, well I'll repeat it YET AGAIN that Jones was THIRTY FIVE when finally KO'd. FIFTEEN YEARS into his professional career where he fought all types at the highest level would suggest that if there was anything suspect about his chin it would have been found out loooooooooong before that.

It's funny how before that result there were never question marks over his chin because, as I said, everyone knew he had long passed the point where it should have been exposed if there actually was anything wrong with it.

To put it in perspective does anybody seriously reckon that Leon Spinks was better than a peak Muhammad Ali, that Robbie Simms was better than a peak Roberto Duran, Terry Norris was better than a peak Sugar Ray Leonard, etc. etc. etc. I could go on forever as boxers are notorious for continuing long after their peaks, but all those losses occured at around the 35/36 mark of those legends' careers, yet I don't hear people using that as an excuse to put them down.

The problem is that those that give Jones no credit could find nothing to criticise him on for years, so when he finally looks human at the age of THIRTY FIVE they jumped all over it, had a collective orgasm and continue to berate him now as if the current Jones is the exact same as the peak one.

gene_tunney

About Jones' chin, if you watch the first Tarver fight he takes big shots off him and doesn't look hurt, so he had a chin back then but I think he can't take a punch now because his legs are gone. We saw how strengthening his legs helped Khan to take a punch so I think the opposite happened to Jones.

joepenguin

walshb wrote: »

Who ever totally outclassed Toney?

Do you remember the left hook that James Toney got, WALSH MUSTA FORGOT!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWIqZKhNY90

colly10

joepenguin wrote: »

WALSH MUSTA FORGOT!!!!!

Brilliant

Daniel2oo9

Cheers for all the replys Guys
Much Appreciated!