Negotiating the price of a car

Yorky

Is there any scope for reducing the cost of a new car?

The Mazda website lists the price of their cars with the scrappage reduction and the local dealer would not negotiate on the list price whether a cash sale or through arranged finance.

I then heard RTE's motoring correspondent Michael Sheridan on The Mooney Show suggesting that if a car costs €20,000, make an offer of €17,000.

Can anyone suggest how to get the best deal for a new car?

Thanks in advance.

Henry Ford III

Offer less than is being asked for? Play dealer A off against dealer B. Offer to take a car in stock as opposed to ordering one in. Tell dealer "It's not the right colour/spec, but I might go for it if.....".

Anan1

As above, really. In a nutshell, shop around for the lowest price.

Atlantic Dawn

Depends too on the car if it's something very desirable with big waiting lists they won't be making move of an attempt to move on the price.

bazz26

The scrappage reduction discount is from the Government and the car manufacturer, not the dealer so they still have a margin that they can be flexible on.

No offence but the dealer probably scensed a lack experience in doing your homework and negotiating so naturally they are going to play hardball to get the best deal for them. Also take into account that January is normally a good month for dealer order books and with the scrappage scheme continueing they may not be under as much pressure to secure a deal at a lower margin. Ideally if they have a car in stock that is a not so popular spec/colour or cancelled by customer they may be more eager to get it off their books.

As others suggest, shop around and let them compete with each other.

rodberg007

Have to agree with some of 'bazz26' points above but they should be giving you some discount on top of the scrappage deal being offered too.

Do you mind me asking was it a Dublin or country dealer that wouldn't negotiate on the list price?

bazz26

bazz26 wrote: »

No offence but the dealer probably scensed a lack experience in doing your homework and negotiating so naturally they are going to play hardball to get the best deal for them.

+1, years back a guy working with my sister gave the screen price for a year or 2 old Golf, cash sale :rolleyes: Salesman must have struggled to keep a straight face.

bbbbb

Friend of mine bought a new car earlier this year for cash (no trade in).
Knew exactly the model/spec he wanted.
Rang all the dealers in south leinster and told each of them the same story; the car he was looking for & that he would buy it from the dealer who offered the best price by the end of the week.
Some dismissed him, but he ended up getting a significant discount on the list price for a no. of dealers.
(Main stream model of car, which is selling well).

Eric Cartman

contact marlow, hes the expert

bmw 740i ,he paid 100 euro for it

-Chris-

The only way to get best price is to do as the lads say and shop around. Call into 3 dealers looking for the same car and bounce them off each other. If you want the discount, you'll have to earn it.

Take Michael Sheridan's advice with a large pinch of salt, margins vary from manufacturer to manufacturer so there's no real rule of thumb that can be applied to discounts.

Yorky

Thanks. The car needs replacing quite soon - is there less chance of a discount now due to new registration demand compared to later in the year?

Yorky

Might have found a suitable used one in the UK. Does anyone know where to find car value comparisons?

Anan1

Yorky wrote: »

Might have found a suitable used one in the UK. Does anyone know where to find car value comparisons?

The best thing is to build up your own picture by looking at several examples of the same age/mileage. If buying from the UK don't even bother getting up off your seat until you've run a full HPI check and verified each stamp in the service book with the servicing dealer. Any gaps in service/discrepancies in the HPI, move on.

Yorky

Anan1 wrote: »

The best thing is to build up your own picture by looking at several examples of the same age/mileage. If buying from the UK don't even bother getting up off your seat until you've run a full HPI check and verified each stamp in the service book with the servicing dealer. Any gaps in service/discrepancies in the HPI, move on.

Even if it's an approved used car listed on the manufacturer's website with HPI and mechanical inspections already carried out?

EPM

Yup. Dealers can be conned too. Some may even be the conners. Costs very little to run the check

Yorky

Thanks for the replies.

Followed the advice given and there is now a difference of €500 between one dealer and another. The local dealer is the most expensive and I put the lower offer to them but they weren't prepared to match it.

Regardless of which garage the car is purchased from, the car would be serviced at the local dealership as the warranty is pan-European. I got the slight impression that a car not supplied by them would be treated differently which I queried but this was flatly denied.

Would anyone be deterred from bypassing the local dealer for a cost saving? Would you then seek the maintenance services of that dealer?

Thanks in advance.

-Chris-

Yorky wrote: »

Would anyone be deterred from bypassing the local dealer for a cost saving? Would you then seek the maintenance services of that dealer?

Nope and yep

Funfair

Yorky wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

Followed the advice given and there is now a difference of €500 between one dealer and another. The local dealer is the most expensive and I put the lower offer to them but they weren't prepared to match it.

Regardless of which garage the car is purchased from, the car would be serviced at the local dealership as the warranty is pan-European. I got the slight impression that a car not supplied by them would be treated differently which I queried but this was flatly denied.

Would anyone be deterred from bypassing the local dealer for a cost saving? Would you then seek the maintenance services of that dealer?

Thanks in advance.

I would follow the €500 as a mater of principle if the dealer is not over 50 miles away. I also would not get the local dealer to service it if he wouldn't bend the €500, as he wouldn't deserve the business the tight git

blackbird98

also, if you're financing the vehicle, arrange this yourself, it should work out a bit cheaper, as the dealer gets a commission on all finance agreements, which, realistically you are paying for.

save the €500 and buy off the other dealer. Tell him you'll give him the business, if he includes a tank full of fuel!!

biko

Hands in pockets, kick tyres a bit and go "hmm, hmm" a lot
As said already, the "I'll drive this car away right now for xxx Euro reduced" approach can work.

Rodin

Yorky wrote: »

Is there any scope for reducing the cost of a new car?

The Mazda website lists the price of their cars with the scrappage reduction and the local dealer would not negotiate on the list price whether a cash sale or through arranged finance.

I then heard RTE's motoring correspondent Michael Sheridan on The Mooney Show suggesting that if a car costs €20,000, make an offer of €17,000.

Can anyone suggest how to get the best deal for a new car?

Thanks in advance.

I bought a new mazda 6 sport a year ago
List price £22700

Saw one that was pre-reg for 19700. Pre-reg obviously cheaper.
Went to the dealer. Said to him ' you and I both know I can get this car cheaper on the internet, but I know you've overheads, and I dont need the hassle of going to England for a car. I've seen a pre-reg at 19700, so dont offer me anything more expensive than that'

He went straight to 19700. £3000 off a new car.

Have some balls, and be prepared to walk.

Yorky

Thanks for all of the replies.

Latest dilemma:

For the new car, I'm basing my calculations on the purchase price divided by the life expectancy of the car (in this case 11 years) and it works out at €1800 approx. per annum.

There are two second hand models which I'm also considering.The cost per annum based on the above (allowing for the age of the vehicles) works out at about €1350 per annum, a cost saving of €450 a year.

One of the cars is in Ireland and under the old road tax regime and doesn't have ESC (Electronic Stability Control) and the other is in the UK under the CO2 road tax regime and has ESC.

I've never bought a new car before and have reservations due to the outlay and depreciation .

Any thoughts?

-Chris-

Do you really think you'll keep each car until they're 11 years old?

Yorky

-Chris- wrote: »

Do you really think you'll keep each car until they're 11 years old?

Yes, unless there was major mechanical breakdown or accident damage.

-Chris-

I think the comparison against the second hand cars may be flawed.

If your budget is €20k and you're looking at a brand new car that you'll keep for 11 years, and a 3 year old car that you'll keep for 8 years (until it's 11), then it's completely apples and oranges from a monthly cost perspective.

Yorky

-Chris- wrote: »

I think the comparison against the second hand cars may be flawed.

If your budget is €20k and you're looking at a brand new car that you'll keep for 11 years, and a 3 year old car that you'll keep for 8 years (until it's 11), then it's completely apples and oranges from a monthly cost perspective.

I don't understand why. Purchase price divided by life expectancy equals annual cost. The actual age of the vehicle is irrelevant apart from having to change it more often.

-Chris-

But if you spend €20k on a 3 year old car you'll get a significantly better spec of car than you will if you spend €20k on a new car.

Rodin

Yorky wrote: »

I don't understand why. Purchase price divided by life expectancy equals annual cost. The actual age of the vehicle is irrelevant apart from having to change it more often.

and whats the annual cost for both the new and 2nd hand car?

Rodin

-Chris- wrote: »

But if you spend €20k on a 3 year old car you'll get a significantly better spec of car than you will if you spend €20k on a new car.

you also spend 20k with prob a max of a year or two warranty left

Yorky

-Chris- wrote: »

But if you spend €20k on a 3 year old car you'll get a significantly better spec of car than you will if you spend €20k on a new car.

I would only spend that on a new car to last the 11 years.

Rodin wrote: »

and whats the annual cost for both the new and 2nd hand car?

€1800 and €1400 approx respectively

Rodin wrote: »

you also spend 20k with prob a max of a year or two warranty left

Again, would only spend that on a new car

-Chris-

OK, here we go.

For €20k new, you can buy a Ford Focus 5Dr Style

You can buy the same car 3 years old for €11,600 before haggling.

For €20k you can buy a 3 year old BMW 520D or Merc E200 Auto

The new Focus will cost €151 per month until it's 11 years old.
The second hand Focus will cost €121 per month until it's 11 years old.
The BMW or Merc will cost €208 per month until they're 11 years old.
(presuming they'll all have a zero value at 11 years old, which they won't)

I can tell you which I'd prefer....


But back to my point, which is... it's unrealistic to compare two cars on a monthly/annual cost basis when the terms and the purchase prices (and potentially the brands, engines and specs) are different. You'll tie yourself in knots.

sweetie

wouldn't it be great if there was a site where you specified the make and model(s) you are interested in and the dealers came back to you with their best price/offers. Or is that a bit naive?

-Chris-

Unfortunately it is, because the vast majority of car buyers have trade ins which would make the ability to provide quotes via the internet virtually impossible.

Rodin

Personally, id not buy a 3 year old car again
My last one had one owner, fairly low mileage, but the owner had rode the **** out of the clutch, and prob never engaged it properly when selecting gears.
Now with a new car I have a 3 year warranty (which I will extend), 3 year pan-european breakdown assist
Its new, so is less likely to have probs, and Im covered against most of those
For peace of mind, i'd go new
I'll not be keeping it for 11 years though. 5 max

Rodin

sweetie wrote: »

wouldn't it be great if there was a site where you specified the make and model(s) you are interested in and the dealers came back to you with their best price/offers. Or is that a bit naive?

autoebid

Yorky

-Chris- wrote: »

OK, here we go.

For €20k new, you can buy a Ford Focus 5Dr Style

You can buy the same car 3 years old for €11,600 before haggling.

For €20k you can buy a 3 year old BMW 520D or Merc E200 Auto

The new Focus will cost €151 per month until it's 11 years old.
The second hand Focus will cost €121 per month until it's 11 years old.
The BMW or Merc will cost €208 per month until they're 11 years old.
(presuming they'll all have a zero value at 11 years old, which they won't)

I can tell you which I'd prefer....


But back to my point, which is... it's unrealistic to compare two cars on a monthly/annual cost basis when the terms and the purchase prices (and potentially the brands, engines and specs) are different. You'll tie yourself in knots.

This is similar to the calculations I've done. The brands, engines and specs are irrelevant as there's only one make /model that I'm interested in and the updates in the last three years are negligible.

I know it's trivial but one factor is colour: the used one is graphite grey which is not very servicable whereas silver would be my first choice.

-Chris-

Rodin wrote: »

autoebid

That's fine unless you've a trade in. Also, you'll probably get a lower price by ringing around yourself because you'll avoid their fee.

If you sell privately then there's a variable as to how good a salesperson you are, how you present the car etc. etc.

Unfortunately it's virtually impossible to buy a car with a slide rule.

Yorky wrote: »

This is similar to the calculations I've done. The brands, engines and specs are irrelevant as there's only one make /model that I'm interested in and the updates in the last three years are negligible.

I know it's trivial but one factor is colour: the used one is graphite grey which is not very servicable whereas silver would be my first choice.

I'm actually quite confused as to what you're trying to show with your depreciation figures at the moment. I don't understand how a 3 year old version of an identical car to the new one you're looking at could be more per month/year than the new one. Most depreciation happens in the first 1-3 years, so you'll start further down the depreciation curve and suffer a shorter drop to zero over the course of your repayments.

Yorky

-Chris- wrote: »

I'm actually quite confused as to what you're trying to show with your depreciation figures at the moment. I don't understand how a 3 year old version of an identical car to the new one you're looking at could be more per month/year than the new one. Most depreciation happens in the first 1-3 years, so you'll start further down the depreciation curve and suffer a shorter drop to zero over the course of your repayments.

The used car is lessper month: €1400 approx. compared to €1800 approx. new.

Stevie Dakota

Rodin wrote: »

He went straight to 19700. £3000 off a new car.
.

Don't you hate that? If it's a tough negotiation you feel you've got the best deal on offer at the end of it. Straight to the price and you're left wondering what the bottom line was.

On object lesson in going in way low and working your way up.

-Chris-

Yorky wrote: »

The used car is lessper month: €1400 approx. compared to €1800 approx. new.

I completely misunderstood that earlier. My apologies.

Please disregard all of my confused responses then!


So to answer what I think your question actually is, go for the second hand car and take the saving.

Cartel Mike

biko wrote: »

Hands in pockets, kick tyres a bit and go "hmm, hmm" a lot
As said already, the "I'll drive this car away right now for xxx Euro reduced" approach can work.

Yip . It works for my uncle who applies this method everytime he has got a 2nd hand car .
I call it the 'Father Stone' method.
The 'hmm' is followed by a long silence . A silence so long that the seller is forced to cave just to get rid of him.
Problem unfortunatley with my uncle is he applies this tactic to every aspect of his life which makes him a tedious man to be around.
But the Father stone method is a winner every time.

-Chris-

I'd see that tactic coming a mile away, and I'm well aware that the first to speak loses, if your uncle's silence tactic has worked on car salespeople then they should be ashamed of themselves.

Cartel Mike

-Chris- wrote: »

I'd see that tactic coming a mile away, and I'm well aware that the first to speak loses, if your uncle's silence tactic has worked on car salespeople then they should be ashamed of themselves.

fortunatley your lucky enough not to have met my uncle. People cross the street to avoid him.

Yorky

Thanks for the replies.

I still have concerens about bypassing the local dealer, mainly being the maintenance of the car.

Under warranty it would need to be serviced by a main dealer but would the local one, who didn't supply the car, "replace" consumable parts which didn't need to be replaced and charge extra for a service? And then post-warranty, if I wanted them to carry on servicing the car would the higher service costs charged by them (over an above for a car supplied by them) negate any saving made on the purchase price? They also charge for a courtesy car when you're not a customer.

Pkiernan

Yorky wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

I still have concerens about bypassing the local dealer, mainly being the maintenance of the car.

Under warranty it would need to be serviced by a main dealer but would the local one, who didn't supply the car, "replace" consumable parts which didn't need to be replaced and charge extra for a service? And then post-warranty, if I wanted them to carry on servicing the car would the higher service costs charged by them (over an above for a car supplied by them) negate any saving made on the purchase price? They also charge for a courtesy car when you're not a customer.

To put your mind at ease, offer to meet your local dealer halfway i.e. come up €250.

If he doesn't have the brains to accept that, chances are he won't be in business next year anyway. Then just walk away and save €500. That will rent you a courtesy car for a few weeks if you need one.

Regarding post warranty service the costs for this won't be any cheaper no matter where you bought the car. But at that time you should be getting an independent mechanic to do your servicing and save 50% over what the stealership would be charging.

Pkiernan

Yorky wrote: »

...

Under warranty it would need to be serviced by a main dealer but ...

By the way, this is not correct, an independent mechanic is all you need.

In fact when my car was new I did the servicing myself and kept records and receipts for all parts (filters, oil etc) purchased.

bladespin

Rodin wrote: »

Its new, so is less likely to have probs, and Im covered against most of those
For peace of mind, i'd go new

Really depends on the car, TBH I've heard similar logic applied to cars with over 100k miles, any warranty issues would have been well sorted and the car proven.