Annie Lennox: God rest ye merry gentlemen

r3nu4l

Saw the video for this last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlsJD8RlhbI

I have to say, the video is pretty cool and goes well with the music. The thing that struck me most though is that I can hear middle-eastern influences in the beat and in the instruments used but if you look at the video you will also see some early Pagan symbolism too. So despite it being a Christian song the video very much encompasses other belief systems and this is a good thing imo

Thoughts?

Fanny Cradock

Bar the very last seconds, I didn't see much in the way of pagan symbolism.

r3nu4l

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Bar the very last seconds, I didn't see much in the way of pagan symbolism.

So you missed Jupiter at the start then?

Fanny Cradock

I'm not sure that Pagans have exclusive claims on Jupiter just yet. But perhaps you are correct. Far more telling would be use of the word Cornucopia.

While I'm all for ecumenism, I sometimes think it is best to acknowledge differences and truth claims instead of trying to harmonise them. That way leads to post-modern madness. Still, I really like the original carol, and I don't mind this at all.

Fanny Cradock

Just to add...

I think that Annie Lennox is an admirable woman. She puts a great deal of effort into humanitarian causes.

r3nu4l

There is also Saturn, a Pagan God, and I have to say that even as a Christian myself I recognise that the Winter Festival at the end is highly Pagan and I also feel that her 'bandleader' staff is rather more similar to a druids staff than a crosier.

However I believe that it's an important recognition that many of our Christian traditions come from Pagan beliefs, after all, that's a big part of how Christianity became acceptable through the adoption of many Pagan festivals and ideas. So I think the video storyboard creators and directors did an excellent job.

Christianity began with Jesus of Nazareth but mortal man (the Christian churches) 'borrowed from Paganism. Like it or not, many of our traditions and festivals are based around Pagan festivals, that's no coincidence so denying it or seeking to distance ourselves from it completely is not recognising the true Christian heritage imo.

A second thing that struck me was that she is very brave to release a Christian album that nails her colours to the mast (no crucifixion pun intended). Given the secular (and other) hatred of the religious aspects of Christmas she risks alienating a lot of people who would have perhaps called themselves fans. Courageous.

EDIT: Also Lennox herself stated in an interview that she was aware of the Pagan winter solstice festivities and wanted to incorporate that. I don't have the link to hand, will post it later.

philologos

r3nu4l wrote: »

There is also Saturn, a Pagan God, and I have to say that even as a Christian myself I recognise that the Winter Festival at the end is highly Pagan and I also feel that her 'bandleader' staff is rather more similar to a druids staff than a crosier.

I think the sound is great, but the expression of paganism through Christianity I find suspect to say the least. Likewise, I've come to question heavily the Medieval conflating of paganism with Christianity. Something happens when you mix a distinctly Judaic faith such as Christianity with distinctive Greek thought which originates from Plato and Aristotle. Not only do you use something foreign as a tool by which to spread Christianity, you also considerably devalue both it and the works of Plato and Aristotle. It can never be anything but disingenuous.

Aristotle never believed that the earth had a single beginning or that it would have an end. Plato also has interesting views of creation. Aristotle believed that the soul died in De Anima (On the Soul). Plato believed that when we learn we recall things from a previous life. Augustine reformed this idea into the "Theory of Divine Illumination" whereby God Himself enlightens us to learn. All insight and learning becomes of God rather than of our previous life experience.

There is something inauthentic about how the Medieval scholastic philosophers (Thomas Aquinas, Duns Scotus etc) used Aristotle's work in particular in ways that he would have never used it himself.

Although I feel distinctively anti-intellectual for rejecting the use of a lot of philosophy to argue for Christ, the only intellectually honest way of defending it is to defend it in its own right rather than as an extension of Aristotle or Plato. It was only in the Renaissance when the Renaissance Humanists (also for the most part Christians despite the common use of humanism a term coined during the Renaissance, apparently a contemporary of Nietzsche assumed anti-Scholasticism = anti-religion.) where the scholastic philosophers were neglecting context.
Tertullian was probably quite right to say "What does Athens have to do with Jerusalem?" in some ways. Of course the Greek and Hebrew worlds did collide in the spread of Christianity, it does not mean Christianity itself is compromised in its Biblical form by paganism.

r3nu4l wrote: »

However I believe that it's an important recognition that many of our Christian traditions come from Pagan beliefs, after all, that's a big part of how Christianity became acceptable through the adoption of many Pagan festivals and ideas. So I think the video storyboard creators and directors did an excellent job.

I think this is a fair point in the timing of the festivals we celebrate (Christmas and Easter in particular). I'm a bit wary when we start claiming that Christians derived beliefs from paganism though as I've yet to see any clear evidence of this.

r3nu4l wrote: »

Christianity began with Jesus of Nazareth but mortal man (the Christian churches) 'borrowed from Paganism. Like it or not, many of our traditions and festivals are based around Pagan festivals, that's no coincidence so denying it or seeking to distance ourselves from it completely is not recognising the true Christian heritage imo.

It's a fine fine line, as I'm starting to see.

r3nu4l wrote: »

A second thing that struck me was that she is very brave to release a Christian album that nails her colours to the mast (no crucifixion pun intended). Given the secular (and other) hatred of the religious aspects of Christmas she risks alienating a lot of people who would have perhaps called themselves fans. Courageous.

It is interesting. What does she believe in herself I wonder?

Interesting video nonetheless.

Fanny Cradock

r3nu4l wrote: »

Christianity began with Jesus of Nazareth but mortal man (the Christian churches) 'borrowed from Paganism. Like it or not, many of our traditions and festivals are based around Pagan festivals, that's no coincidence so denying it or seeking to distance ourselves from it completely is not recognising the true Christian heritage imo.

You're right. It can be interesting to see people pop along here to reveal *shock horror* the pagan roots of Christmas - like it force us to jack all this God business in.

r3nu4l wrote: »

A second thing that struck me was that she is very brave to release a Christian album that nails her colours to the mast (no crucifixion pun intended). Given the secular (and other) hatred of the religious aspects of Christmas she risks alienating a lot of people who would have perhaps called themselves fans. Courageous.

EDIT: Also Lennox herself stated in an interview that she was aware of the Pagan winter solstice festivities and wanted to incorporate that. I don't have the link to hand, will post it later.

Is she a Christian or some such? Whatever the answer, I remember watching Live 8 and thinking that she wasn't there for the personal coverage but because she really cared.

homer911

I'm pretty sure AL is Buddhist

http://www.wikimusicguide.com/Annie_Lennox

and heres a few more for good measure

http://thebuddhasface.blogspot.com/2010/10/top-10-most-famous-buddhists-in-world.html

r3nu4l

homer911 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure AL is Buddhist

http://www.wikimusicguide.com/Annie_Lennox

and heres a few more for good measure

http://thebuddhasface.blogspot.com/2010/10/top-10-most-famous-buddhists-in-world.html

That might help explain the video so.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

PDN

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Did you see Bobo and the Edge had to get the train from Cork to Dublin a couple of days ago after their flight was diverted?

Bono fell off the train platform because he was standing too close to the edge.

JimiTime

PDN wrote: »

Did you see Bobo and the Edge had to get the train from Cork to Dublin a couple of days ago after their flight was diverted?

Bono fell off the train platform because he was standing too close to the edge.

/Hands PDN his coat.

Fanny Cradock

PDN wrote: »

Did you see Bobo and the Edge had to get the train from Cork to Dublin a couple of days ago after their flight was diverted.

I know he gets a bit of stick from the general public, but Bobo is OK in my book.

PDN

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I know he gets a bit of stick from the general public, but Bobo is OK in my book.

Actually, 'Bobo' was a genuine (if Freudian) typo on my behalf.

Fanny Cradock

I know he can come across as a bit of a blow-hard, but I think Bono is another one in the "genuinely cares" bracket.