Racing during Preperation for Marathon

petermijackson

I'm a couple of weeks into my training for the London Marathon - not easy these days but getting there, anyways what my question is. Is it recommened to race during my preperation? I assume yes considering the Adidas serious is a build up to Dublin but I haven't been able to find any articles about what distance and when should I fit it in? What are other people's thoughts/theories?

Gringo78

petermijackson wrote: »

I'm a couple of weeks into my training for the London Marathon - not easy these days but getting there, anyways what my question is. Is it recommened to race during my preperation? I assume yes considering the Adidas serious is a build up to Dublin but I haven't been able to find any articles about what distance and when should I fit it in? What are other people's thoughts/theories?

I'd say its good to get a few races in, although what races depends on what your experience is in i.e if its your first marathon and you're not really sure what time to target, then a HM might be a good idea as it would give you a good idea of where you're at.

I would try however not to let the races interfere with your training i.e I'm not a big fan at all of swapping a 20mile LSR for a HM with a few miles tagged on before and after - its not the same training effect in my book. The problem with the longer races is they tend to be on weekends which will clash with a key marathon training session - the LSR. People training for spring marathons will find there are few midweek races whereas people training for autumn marathons have midweek races galore and can happily swap an interval session for a 5k or 5mile race.

If you do decide to run a HM on a weekend, then live with your choice and don't be trying to turn it into something its not....warmup properly, race it and cooldown properly and don't be trying to make it into a hybrid LSR. Just plan your LSR's so there isn't one the weekend you want to race.

ronnie085

Just looking at P&D marathon plans and they have 3 10k races, 7, 5 and 3 weeks from your goal marathon, with lsr then next day. I think the theory is that you use the races as "tune up" and the lsr the next day to get the body used to running on tired legs.

woodchopper

This is a very intersting topic. The racing schedule prior to the marathon really depends on your preparation and your long term build up. Seeing as your in preparation for London in mid December your build up seems to be in the range of 16-20 weeks.

For example an athlete who has a ten week build up should not attempt racing, although running a half marathon at goal pace can be helpful but can easily be done at training base (in terms of logistics not in effort). Going half way across the country is not necessary however, if there is a half on your doorstep running 10 miles at marathon pace and three at a faster pace can prove a useful workout for the marathon.

Again the timing of the event is important. An effort such as the above is really for the latter half of a programme, too volumous in nature for the first couple of weeks.

Now if your marathon build up is 5-6 months which is ideal coming from my coaching school I would apply the following.

10 weeks base: this includes a steady effort approx marathon effort. 6-8 miles, for elites this can be brought up to a peak of 12 with the majority of the efforts 8-10 miles. Do not start off on 8 anf finish at six. These efforts to be introduced after 3 weeks of mileage including hilly runs and some fartlek in weeks two and three. 2 hour long run overhills if possible, effort easy to steady depending on how ones body feels.

At the end of this phase the athlete can race a distance of their choice which is under 10 mile. For example if targeting a late April marathon the endof this period would roughly coinside around mid to late december so a local turkey trot would be a good blowout. Take a recovery week ie three days before race, and three days after it rather than a full week of hard training followed by a race followed by a week off.

Now following this 10 week cycle is a 4-6 week period. Two track workout aweek plus a medium long run with steady state finish. For example 14-15 mile run with fourto five miles at marathon effort.

Track workouts or fartleks on grass if a track cannot be obtained. One could use a straight patch on a road if they have it measured out or a garmin on hand that works. The workouts are targeted at 5k/10k pace with a shorter faster session ie mile/3k pace working your way down to mile pace at the end.

Sample session:

8 by a km 200m jog at 10k pace
5 by 800 5k pace
12 by 400 5k working down towards 3k pace all 200 jog
8-10 by 400 3k pace working down towards mile pace
3 by a mile 10k pace, 2 by 800 5k pace, 2 by 400 3k pace, all 200 jog

The idea of these sessions should be to get the legs used to running faster paces early on in the marathon programme rather than leaving it to the last three weeks to do speedwork during the taper.

At the end of this training cycle the athlete should target a 10 race . If there is a 7 mile race on your doorstep this will do but nothing over 7-8 miles. The idea is to use the training of this period to run a good quality time.
Again a recovery week 3 days prior to race and another 2-4 after the race with easy mileage.

Marathon Cycle 10-12 weeks including taper:

During this period I would have athletes race a half marathon approx 6 weeks out from the marathon, enough time to recover and resume some specific marathon workouts prior to the taper.

The intention of the post was to state that if the marathon programme is long enough races should be run at the end of specific training phases. Again I agree with the post who disagrees with running a 10k while running 6 miles before and 6 miles after. In my opinion this is a wasted marathon effort or worse a wasted race in the programme.
If the marathon programme is short then I woyld advise against racing and concentrate on the marathon specific workouts.

This is a programme for an athlte who targets two big marathons a year, Autumn and Spring hence the 10 week base been used as a specific period. If the athlete has not run an Autumn marathon and has a strong base with long tempos or steady states then they can go straight to the 4-6 weeks 5k/10k peiod which gives a marathon programme of 14_18 weeks 16 to 18 been ideal.

RoyMcC

Thank you Gringo & Woodchopper for that considered advice. I'm pleased to say that I've (accidently) built in, as per Woodchopper's suggestion, a Half six weeks prior to Edinburgh in 2011.

Whilst I've got the experts here, could you offer me an opinion. Earlier this year I ran a PB 1:46.xx Half 15 days before Cork, where I ran 4:27; I didn't feel anywhere near as strong during the marathon as I did two weeks previously. Would you say that a hard-run Half two weeks beforehand was a mistake?

Krusty_Clown

RoyMcC wrote: »

Thank you Gringo & Woodchopper for that considered advice. I'm pleased to say that I've (accidently) built in, as per Woodchopper's suggestion, a Half six weeks prior to Edinburgh in 2011.

Whilst I've got the experts here, could you offer me an opinion. Earlier this year I ran a PB 1:46.xx Half 15 days before Cork, where I ran 4:27; I didn't feel anywhere near as strong during the marathon as I did two weeks previously. Would you say that a hard-run Half two weeks beforehand was a mistake?

The marathon program I would typically follow has a 10k race two weeks before your goal marathon. With an LSR the following day, and 3x1600 the following Wednesday it's a tough program, but it has worked for me several times.

A half marathon two weeks beforehand at an aggressive pace does sound like it could be counter-productive, unless you're disciplined enough to run it at slower than marathon pace (in which case it's just a medium length taper run).

Gringo78

RoyMcC wrote: »

Thank you Gringo & Woodchopper for that considered advice. I'm pleased to say that I've (accidently) built in, as per Woodchopper's suggestion, a Half six weeks prior to Edinburgh in 2011.

Whilst I've got the experts here, could you offer me an opinion. Earlier this year I ran a PB 1:46.xx Half 15 days before Cork, where I ran 4:27; I didn't feel anywhere near as strong during the marathon as I did two weeks previously. Would you say that a hard-run Half two weeks beforehand was a mistake?

A rule of thumb used is commonly 1 day per mile raced before the race fatigue is out of your system. So a HM is going to take 2 weeks to get fully over so not a good idea 2 weeks before a marathon (unless its a HM at marathon pace as Krusty said). Krusty's 10k is out of the system in a week so its fine 2 weeks before a marathon.

Gringo78

ronnie085 wrote: »

Just looking at P&D marathon plans and they have 3 10k races, 7, 5 and 3 weeks from your goal marathon, with lsr then next day. I think the theory is that you use the races as "tune up" and the lsr the next day to get the body used to running on tired legs.

Should note that the LSR that follows immediately after a 10k race in a P&D program is a shorter LSR - i.e a 16/17mile LSR rather than the 20/21mile LSR