Lack of heating on Dublin Bus buses - or have I just been unlucky?

anbrutog

Every bus I've got in the last few weeks simply hasn't had the heating working , for whatever reason. I had a particularly unpleasant journey home tonight , taking the guts of 2 and half hours ( and THREE changes of buses , why does this happen anyone ?? ) and the cold was something else. When I got off I enquired as to what was up with the heating , I got the following smartarse reply , "Oh sorry bud, would you have liked the heating on yeah ..haha.."
Now , either I've been desperately unlucky and managed to find my way home on the few buses driven by arsehole drivers who are too lazy to put the heating on / buses with heating that breaks at the first sign of cold, or its unofficial Dublin Bus policy to keep it off to save a few quid?

Pkiernan

The answer is that the diesel engines used in the buses cannot get warmed up enough to adequately heat the bus with outside temperatures being so low.

The buses rely on heat from the engine as there are no ancillary heaters. When temperatures outside drop this low the engines simply don't get hot enough, no matter how long they are running.

The driver in question was being sarcastic.

anbrutog

Pkiernan wrote: »

The answer is that the diesel engines used in the buses cannot get warmed up enough to adequately heat the bus with outside temperatures being so low.

The buses rely on heat from the engine as there are no ancillary heaters. When temperatures outside drop this low the engines simply don't get hot enough, no matter how long they are running.

The driver in question was being sarcastic.

Good to know.
Wouldnt have done the driver any harm to let me know that, or something along those lines, rather than taking the piss...

Cookie_Monster

the older non low floor DDs (Olympians/Volvos?) have a dedicated heater right behind the stairwell don't they?

bobbyss

I don't usually take the bus but one day I did and I nearly died. Upstairs was suffocating with the heat. I was beginning to feel dizzy and nauseous.

The heat was intense and the bus was packed. When I managed to get downstairs, which was much cooler, I said to the driver that upstairs was killing.

He just turned and did something to the buttons (I don't know what as I was getting off.)

Is there any monitoring of heat in DB? Any policy? I do appreciate that different people have varied needs and tolerances but by God I nearly died. A serious H & S issue for me.

magicbastarder

i suspect that a problem with an automated heating system is that the driver has no controls over the windows; any heating system would struggle to heat a room with a couple of open windows. plus, a large number of passengers wouldn't 'interfere' with the windows, even if it's obviously far too warm or too cold.

AlekSmart

anbrutog wrote: »

Good to know.
Wouldnt have done the driver any harm to let me know that, or something along those lines, rather than taking the piss...

There are two seperate lines of complaint here...one technical,one human.

The technical one is prevalent throughout the Bus industry and surfaced most recently in,what is for many,the Mecca of Bus Operations...London.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2356831/Faulty-air-conditioning-new-Boris-Buses-leave-angry-passengers-sweltering-30C.html

http://www.boriswatch.co.uk/2014/07/22/which-idiot-in-charge-decided-to-buy-buses-with-windows-that-dont-open/

Bearing in mind Dublin had it's own "Idiot" back in 1965/66,when CIE's new fleet of Atlantean vehicles hit the streets with an "Electrically controlled Automatic Saloon Heating & Ventilation system".....just goes to show that it's not "ONLY The Irish" who are immune to learning from experience.

The heating and ventilation systems fitted to the latest Wrights designs are quite complex,and are largely Automatic in operation.

The desired saloon temperature is pre-set and the only Driver related control is to control the Blower Fan on/off setting.

The Driver has only a small green on/off light to indicate it's status...There is NO other Driver Inputted control.

Bearing in mind that Dublin Bus vehicles do NOT have Air Conditioning systems fitted,it is always going to be a battle to satisfy the wide variety of customer demands for heat vs ventilation.

http://busride.com/2012/09/ventilation-is-key/

AlekSmart

bobbyss wrote: »

I don't usually take the bus but one day I did and I nearly died. Upstairs was suffocating with the heat. I was beginning to feel dizzy and nauseous.

The heat was intense and the bus was packed. When I managed to get downstairs, which was much cooler, I said to the driver that upstairs was killing.

He just turned and did something to the buttons (I don't know what as I was getting off.)

Is there any monitoring of heat in DB? Any policy? I do appreciate that different people have varied needs and tolerances but by God I nearly died. A serious H & S issue for me.

In many cases the demands of Upper and Lower Saloon customers are at variance with the laws of physics,one of the most basic being that heat rises...

Attempting to maintain seperate levels of acceptable heat in a double deck vehicle is an extremely taxing task,which even modern HVAC systems struggle with,particularly in a climate such as Ireland's which can experience all seasons in a single day.

Added to this is the reality of On Bus HVAC systems being at the lower end of reliability graphs,with associated issues of the gubbins being showhorned into confined innaccessible locations on the vehicle.

coylemj

Air conditioning would only be feasible if all the windows were sealed shut, otherwise it would consume vast amounts of fuel for no good purpose. The issue on buses is that people see fit to open and close windows to suit themselves, even to the extent that some people think they have the right to close several windows, even ones behind where they're sitting. With the new practice of DB opening the centre doors at every stop (e.g. a 46A I got to Dun Laoghaire yesterday), there's virtually no chance for the inside of the downstairs saloon to warm up so wear the winter woollies and stay warm!

bobbyss

coylemj wrote: »

Air conditioning would only be feasible if all the windows were sealed shut, otherwise it would consume vast amounts of fuel for no good purpose. The issue on buses is that people see fit to open and close windows to suit themselves, even to the extent that some people think they have the right to close several windows, even ones behind where they're sitting. With the new practice of DB opening the centre doors at every stop (e.g. a 46A I got to Dun Laoghaire yesterday), there's virtually no chance for the inside of the downstairs saloon to warm up so wear the winter woollies and stay warm!

Is there a protocol for this opening and closing of windows though? Its all very dodgey. You may feel hot and beside a window but the person sitting beside you may not. What to do then? Some seats have no window openings beside them also. One big issue with a/c and sealed windows is when they break down. Then people are at risk esp when bus is packed.

monument

As there's already a bit of new discussion, I'm making a conscious decision to leave this old thread open -- we'll see if it works ok.

-- moderator

Elemonator

Most of the comments here are correct. My uncle is a mechanic at Dublin Bus and I think I remember him mentioning years ago that the radiators take a beating from all the rubbish that falls into them because passengers don't clean up after themselves.

coylemj

bobbyss wrote: »

Is there a protocol for this opening and closing of windows though? Its all very dodgey. You may feel hot and beside a window but the person sitting beside you may not. What to do then? Some seats have no window openings beside them also.

The 'protocol' is that anyone who feels like it can open or close any or all of the windows on the deck they're sitting in.

c_meth

The best option is to have non heated buses. Most passengers will have already been waiting for the bus and should be suitably attired.

PS I hate hot buses.

macroman

AlekSmart wrote: »

In many cases the demands of Upper and Lower Saloon customers are at variance with the laws of physics,one of the most basic being that heat rises...

And yet the heating vents on the SG's are in the roof! Impossible to regulate the temp with both saloons sharing a single heater unit, downstairs is an icebox and upstairs a sauna.

VG31

I noticed that sometimes the upper deck of the SGs can be boiling.

hmmm

I wish we had some sort of accepted protocol for opening windows - I hate being on boiling stuffy buses full of people coughing and sniffling, and I'll happily wear a warmer jacket if only someone would open a window. I think if you sit down the back end of the bus, you should not be complaining if a window is open - sit up the front of the bus.

coylemj

hmmm wrote: »

I think if you sit down the back end of the bus, you should not be complaining if a window is open - sit up the front of the bus.

+1 It really bugs me when people get up and start closing windows that are behind where they're sitting.

MOH

It's quite irritating when you've been sitting for a while on a bus that cold, and someone who's just got on starts opening all the windows around them because they're too hot since they've just been walking/running to the bus stop.

lawlolawl

If you have a problem with the temperature of a public transport vehicle then the simple solution is to not use the method of public transport in question. Not everyone else in the vehicle thinks it's too hot/cold so your preference isn't any concern of theirs

Get your own personal vehicle if you want to control the temperature. Otherwise, dress appropriately and stop whinging.

You are a grown adult, act like one. This statement can be applied to most "issues" on public transport.

monument

lawlolawl wrote: »

If you have a problem with the temperature of a public transport vehicle then the simple solution is to not use the method of public transport in question. Not everyone else in the vehicle thinks it's too hot/cold so your preference isn't any concern of theirs

Get your own personal vehicle if you want to control the temperature. Otherwise, dress appropriately and stop whinging.

You are a grown adult, act like one. This statement can be applied to most "issues" on public transport.

This isn't after hours -- here in Commuting and Transport, we expect a higher standard of post and have rules covering unhelpful posts. If you can't read the charter and follow the rules please don't post again.

-- modrarator

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

MOH wrote: »

It's quite irritating when you've been sitting for a while on a bus that cold, and someone who's just got on starts opening all the windows around them because they're too hot since they've just been walking/running to the bus stop.

So if someone is on a packed, warm , very stuffy bus and are struggling to breath then they can go and sh/te because you're too cold ?

Nah sorry , i dont accept that, wrap up warmer next time, you shouldnt really be complaining about lack of heat on buses because when your waiting and getting off the bus your outside. And its always colder outside the bus

devnull

I was once on a bus where an anorexic girl wearing a very low cut top that did not cover her tummy, and really short shorts, went and closed all the windows despite the fact it was quite a warm day and when one person went to open one because everyone on the bus was suffering, she accused them of being "fats" and "if you had figure like me you'd not need to open window"

Incidentally the people were not fat.

LXFlyer

Unfortunately what's cold for one person will be grand for another, and possibly warm for someone else.

There is no protocol about this and expecting one is I think being somewhat over-optimistic.

But logically, downstairs on a bus is always likely to be less warm than upstairs given that the doors will open and close at stops.

MOH

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

So if someone is on a packed, warm , very stuffy bus and are struggling to breath then they can go and sh/te because you're too cold ?

Nah sorry , i dont accept that, wrap up warmer next time, you shouldnt really be complaining about lack of heat on buses because when your waiting and getting off the bus your outside. And its always colder outside the bus

Maybe try actually reading the post you're replying to next time?

I'm talking about sitting on a cold bus (not a "packed, warm, very stuffy one") for a prolonged period when someone who's just got on (not someone sitting there "struggling to breathe") immediately opens all windows around them, because they're too warm. Possibly because they've been walking/running for the bus, but also because, as you have so insightfully pointed out in your eloquent comment, it is indeed colder outside the bus.

Whereas it would make far more sense to give it a couple of minutes until they've adjusted to the change in temperature. Or, and I realise this may seem like a completely insane idea, remove your outermost garment. Many coats now come with easily accessible zips/buttons. This also has the fortunate side effect that you can then put your coat back on just before you disembark into the cold outside.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

MOH wrote: »

Maybe try actually reading the post you're replying to next time?

I'm talking about sitting on a cold bus (not a "packed, warm, very stuffy one") for a prolonged period when someone who's just got on (not someone sitting there "struggling to breathe") immediately opens all windows around them, because they're too warm. Possibly because they've been walking/running for the bus, but also because, as you have so insightfully pointed out in your eloquent comment, it is indeed colder outside the bus.

Whereas it would make far more sense to give it a couple of minutes until they've adjusted to the change in temperature. Or, and I realise this may seem like a completely insane idea, remove your outermost garment. Many coats now come with easily accessible zips/buttons. This also has the fortunate side effect that you can then put your coat back on just before you disembark into the cold outside.

Like i said. Don't rely on the bus being warm then. Wrap up warmer if you're cold.

When it's cold outside do you complain then too ?

hmmm

It's easy to wrap up warmer if you're too cold. It's not so easy to start taking things off if it's too warm.

It is odd though how little attention DB seem to pay to heating/AC issues on their buses - it must be well up there for complaints.

Polar101

hmmm wrote: »

It's easy to wrap up warmer if you're too cold. It's not so easy to start taking things off if it's too warm.

Well, no. Everyone else is comfortable with the temperature on the bus, but then the one person who just got on, possibly wearing too much clothing starts opening windows. Wouldn't it be much easier to just take your coat off, and not make things uncomfortable for everyone else?

AlekSmart

hmmm wrote: »

It's easy to wrap up warmer if you're too cold. It's not so easy to start taking things off if it's too warm.

It is odd though how little attention DB seem to pay to heating/AC issues on their buses - it must be well up there for complaints.

No DB vehicles have Air Conditioning fitted.

The specification of DB vehicles since 2012 is dictated by the NTA,who,in this case may well be worth contacting in relation to improving the situation ?

Charles Babbage

These discussions are data free.
The NTA some standard for the temperature provided. and should require all operators to have thermometers monitoring their vehicles. This data should be published.

dfx-

Depends on your route and type of bus. On Wednesday night I was on AX558 on the 39A and it was freezing cold as all AXs are. Even the handrails were freezing.

If you're lucky you'll get an AV and there'll be no warmth problem.

AlekSmart

Charles Babbage wrote: »

These discussions are data free.
The NTA some standard for the temperature provided. and should require all operators to have thermometers monitoring their vehicles. This data should be published.

21 Deg C is the setting for the Saloon Temperature Thermostats on WrightBus vehicles.

devnull

EV's, especially the 07 ones are always cold as well

punisher5112

Heaters are on bottom of list for repairs.

Many complaints,dockets etc and same buses with no heat last winter the same today.

rhoa

AlekSmart wrote: »

No DB vehicles have Air Conditioning fitted.

The specification of DB vehicles since 2012 is dictated by the NTA,who,in this case may well be worth contacting in relation to improving the situation ?

AV class had/have fantastic AC.
For a few brief months when they where first in service drivers found out about the Temp control in behind the panel above the luggage rack.
In the hottest of summer days you could have the bus a lovely cold temp, it was fantastic, many passengers would say it was great when getting off the bus.
Then DB put a metal bracket over the Temp controls, and you could no longer adjust the temp, back to hot sweaty summer buses.