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RPA Certainly Know How to Promote Metro North

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    ClovenHoof wrote: »
    Their PR is pretty impressive. They understand it is as much about winning a battle of hearts and minds as much as anything else.

    http://www.slideshare.net/RailwayProcurementAgency/dublin-metro-north-st-stephens-green-site-boundary-branding
    You being serious ? The odd picture of a Metro wouldn't go a miss!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 BrianD


    They've put more into this then the rest of the project. You'll be spartan stations but very glossy hoardings.

    I'd say Stephens Green Centre will be onto their brief asap. Where is the St. Stephens green tram stop going? A bit furher up the street?

    Nice contract for printing and design who ever gets it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭ oharach


    2010 has been a significant year for Metro North. An Bord Pleanála approved the Metro North Railway Order on October 27th. RPA now has permission to build a light rail system which is 16.5 kms long and serves 14 stops from St Stephen’s Green to Estuary in Swords. The Department of Transport has confirmed that the construction of Metro North has been allowed for in the National Recovery Plan. RPA has completed the tender process for the first enabling works contracts and is ready to sign contracts for these in the New Year.

    RPA is committed to delivering a first class mass transit system for the people of Dublin and we want you to be confident we can deliver this project safely and be a good neighbour during the works.

    We encourage you to keep informed on Metro North and to do this via www.rpa.ie or our Metro North Facebook page.

    Building Metro North is a challenging project but together we can transform Dublin from a city which is difficult to get around to one where all retail areas, sporting and entertainment venues, educational institutions, transport interchanges and employment districts are easily accessible to all.

    Wishing you and yours a Peaceful and Prosperous New Year.

    Yours sincerely,
    Mary Denise O'Reilly
    Metro North Public Consultation
    Railway Procurement Agency
    Parkgate Business Centre
    Parkgate St.
    Dublin 8
    Ireland

    ( +353 (0) 1 646 3653
    * [email protected]
    .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    Not sure if it's been mentioned, but RPA have a Youtube channel with various materials.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/RPALuasMetro


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭ Aard


    Is using Google Maps not somehow infringing on copyright?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 569 lods


    its just a lot of spin. Its questionable if the private sector will be able to come up with the money, let alone the government. The future of the RPA depends on this going ahead so they have to keep putting out this spin. They hope that if the keep spending money , it'll be cheaper to go ahead than cancel it. They've been having public meetings in top hotels, the Westin, Gresham & Stephen's Green Club, but refused to take questions from the floor. Their spending a huge amount on PR.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    lods wrote: »
    its just a lot of spin. Its questionable if the private sector will be able to come up with the money, let alone the government. The future of the RPA depends on this going ahead so they have to keep putting out this spin. They hope that if the keep spending money , it'll be cheaper to go ahead than cancel it. They've been having public meetings in top hotels, the Westin, Gresham & Stephen's Green Club, but refused to take questions from the floor. Their spending a huge amount on PR.

    I'm sure it's been mentioned that the plan is to merge the RPA and the NRA.

    While I wouldn't want to think there are deliberate ill-intentions, through all their PR, and meetings and videos etc, nice as they appear, they have still failed to answer the question on cost. "Less than 5 billion" is all that has been said. So, 4.5 billion then? 3 billion? People naturally want to know what we are ultimately going to pay for this. And considering our market reputation is in tatters, will money even be able to be raised? These key issues are not being addressed.

    The other problem is there is no real enthusiasm nor drive nor desire for the project from either the government or the opposition. A far cry from the buzz of Transport 21 and constant talks of progress, we are simply getting periodic, half-hearted reaffirmations of "commitment" to the project, almost as though they know in their hearts of hearts, the chances of it going ahead are looking massively unlikely.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    While I wouldn't want to think there are deliberate ill-intentions, through all their PR, and meetings and videos etc, nice as they appear, they have still failed to answer the question on cost. "Less than 5 billion" is all that has been said. So, 4.5 billion then? 3 billion? People naturally want to know what we are ultimately going to pay for this. And considering our market reputation is in tatters, will money even be able to be raised? These key issues are not being addressed.

    As pointed out on the other thread -- the Indo printed an article recently quoting a "government source" as saying the project is going to cost around €2.5 billion (what that includes, god only knows).

    Cost is still my major concern of the project. But it's around or below €3 billion, mostly paid over 25 or so years, and they can get funding, great, build it. If funding is hard to come by this may be helped by the possibility of the European Investment Bank funding the project up to €1 billion. The sad things is even if it does come in around that price tag, you'll have attacks on the repayments etc while nobody blinks an eye on the current motorway repayments.
    BluntGuy wrote: »
    The other problem is there is no real enthusiasm nor drive nor desire for the project from either the government or the opposition. A far cry from the buzz of Transport 21 and constant talks of progress, we are simply getting periodic, half-hearted reaffirmations of "commitment" to the project, almost as though they know in their hearts of hearts, the chances of it going ahead are looking massively unlikely.

    Actually if you search the Dail records, newspaper articles etc, they appear sick of defending the project (it's the kind of thing that happens when the opposition and media are hounding them about it). It was in the programme for government, and the renewed programme for government. It's in the four year plan, and enabling works are funded in the budget (both approved by the EU and IMF). It has been a central part of Green Party demands and Dempsey has been keen on it.

    The transport minister said in the Dail, under two months ago, that "It is wonderful that no matter how often a Minister stands up and says a project is going ahead, all it takes is one newspaper article for someone to say it is not going ahead." Adding: "I will send the Deputy the blacks of all the times I have stated that I believe this is a very good project which should go ahead."

    I think it's wrong for the opposition to criticise the position that the project will only be given the final go-ahead when the contract bids are in. It would be bat crazy to give the final green light before the tenders are finalised (something which will take extra time because of planning conditions).

    As for the main opposition and possible future government -- they don't seem to have a clue what they want on a huge amount of issues. They are massively divided between and within the parties.


  • Registered Users Posts: 569 lods


    monument wrote: »
    As pointed out on the other thread -- the Indo printed an article recently quoting a "government source" as saying the project is going to cost around €2.5 billion (what that includes, god only knows)

    As far as i can see the 2.5 billion , best case cost, is the capital cost of the build.
    The RPA will have spend 1/4 of a billion by next November
    Its suggested that the enabling works & CPO will be 1 Billion.
    Rolling Stock & staion fit out € ???
    The continuing cost of the RPA €???
    Interest & repayments €???


  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭ Jack Noble


    lods wrote: »
    As far as i can see the 2.5 billion , best case cost, is the capital cost of the build.

    The PPP contract price covers construction, fit out, infrastructure, rolling stock and operations.
    The RPA will have spend 1/4 of a billion by next November

    Do you seriously believe that, over six years (2005-2011) that such a major project would encur little or no costs during detailed planning, consultation, design, property acquisition and enabling works?
    Its suggested that the enabling works & CPO will be 1 Billion.

    By whom? And please don't say Joe Costello TD - he was laughed out of it by the govt, RPA, FG and even the media for that ridiculous statement issued after the RO was approved. Costello is a clown who is spoofing out of his hole just like his leader is wont to do. At that stage he hadn't even sought, never mind received, a briefing on the project from the RPA. Kinda strange that, seeing has his brief is transport and Metro is the single biggest transport project ever attempted by the State, don't ya think?.
    Rolling Stock & staion fit out € ???

    See above. Did you even check the initial tender notice or the details of the consortia that tendered? The big clue is the presence of rolling stock manufacturers in each of the consortia. And do you really think the construction stops at the tunnels?
    The continuing cost of the RPA €???

    Irrelevant to cost of Metro North. The RPA is being merged with the NRA and the new agency will handle planning for all current and future Luas/Metro and major road projects. Planning for the future has not stopped.
    Interest & repayments €???

    Again, these will be in the final PPP contract. That has always been the stated position of govt and RPA. Do you understand the concept of 'competitive tendering'? Or are you just ignoring it deliberately to make your petty, ignorant points?

    All this is on the public record. Go and research it.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,414 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    The other problem is there is no real enthusiasm nor drive nor desire for the project from either the government or the opposition. A far cry from the buzz of Transport 21 and constant talks of progress, we are simply getting periodic, half-hearted reaffirmations of "commitment" to the project, almost as though they know in their hearts of hearts, the chances of it going ahead are looking massively unlikely.
    Nonsense from start to finish. Please read this an reconsider what you've said:
    monument wrote: »
    The transport minister said in the Dail, under two months ago, that "It is wonderful that no matter how often a Minister stands up and says a project is going ahead, all it takes is one newspaper article for someone to say it is not going ahead."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 DWCommuter


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Nonsense from start to finish. Please read this an reconsider what you've said:

    I disagree. Noel Dempsey is stepping down at the next election. Nothing he says now or in the recent past can be considered an argument against what Bluntguy has posted. Dempsey is full of crap talk and always was.

    Until the TBMs are in the ground, the political rhetoric means nothing. Since T21 and its grandiose ring fenced bull****, 5 years have passed and very little has been achieved. Its almost as if its all happening in slow motion and slow motion is the epitaph of FF lead Governments in terms of public transport.


    I applaud those who remain positive, but pity you at the same time. However time will tell the truth of the matter and only then will we either get MN or have have a field day here debating how some were right and others were wrong. At the moment nobody can claim to be right about any of it. We can only express opinions based on the evidence and our interpretation of it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 DWCommuter


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    I'm sure it's been mentioned that the plan is to merge the RPA and the NRA.

    While I wouldn't want to think there are deliberate ill-intentions, through all their PR, and meetings and videos etc, nice as they appear, they have still failed to answer the question on cost. "Less than 5 billion" is all that has been said. So, 4.5 billion then? 3 billion? People naturally want to know what we are ultimately going to pay for this. And considering our market reputation is in tatters, will money even be able to be raised? These key issues are not being addressed.

    The other problem is there is no real enthusiasm nor drive nor desire for the project from either the government or the opposition. A far cry from the buzz of Transport 21 and constant talks of progress, we are simply getting periodic, half-hearted reaffirmations of "commitment" to the project, almost as though they know in their hearts of hearts, the chances of it going ahead are looking massively unlikely.

    I understand and support your point completely and my suggestion is to wait, as 2011 should reveal all. At the moment there is still far too much confusion and differing opinion about the PPP aspect and the states direct financial commitments to it. I believe there is still an airy fairy view that MN can be built via PPP without major financial obligations from the state itself. In fact I believe the biggest misrepresentation of this projects viability is the continued mantra that its costs us very little and its merely a little project that we can comfortably pay for over 30 years. DU's tunnel was to be funded via PPP, but it has already been shafted (excuse the engineering pun:D) and this in itself (despite all the claims of it being further behind in planning) represents a distinct lack of appetite for repayments on both projects.

    Our insatiable appetite for a big infrastructure project is leading us down a road of no return. MN looks cool enough, but DU is more urgent. I won't go into the detail as Ive already done it here before. But the mere creation of the RPA and failure to deal with CIE has condemned us to a forthcoming and abhorrent abomination that we will regret in the years ahead.

    What is this abomination? Lack of joined up proactive thinking.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    I disagree. Noel Dempsey is stepping down at the next election. Nothing he says now or in the recent past can be considered an argument against what Bluntguy has posted. Dempsey is full of crap talk and always was.

    If you're talking about the project going ahead or not, sure, the next Government will likely have the last word.

    But regarding what Bluntguy posted about there being "no real enthusiasm nor drive nor desire for the project", that's not true. The Green Party and some FF ministers have -- rightly or wrongly -- defended the project quite a bit.
    DWCommuter wrote: »
    Until the TBMs are in the ground, the political rhetoric means nothing. Since T21 and its grandiose ring fenced bull****, 5 years have passed and very little has been achieved. Its almost as if its all happening in slow motion and slow motion is the epitaph of FF lead Governments in terms of public transport.

    You could go further and say until the project is built and trams / trains are running -- who knows what may go wrong between then and now. And the ring-fencing was always bull, but the events of the last few years gives them a nice getaway.
    However time will tell the truth of the matter and only then will we either get MN or have have a field day here debating how some were right and others were wrong.

    Exactly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    monument wrote: »
    If you're talking about the project going ahead or not, sure, the next Government will likely have the last word.

    But regarding what Bluntguy posted about there being "no real enthusiasm nor drive nor desire for the project", that's not true. The Green Party and some FF ministers have -- rightly or wrongly -- defended the project quite a bit.

    The tough decision has to be taken by the next government.

    FF/GP are in a historical win-win situation over MN.

    If it's built, they got the ball rolling.

    If it's not, someone else stopped it.

    The fact that FF/GP destroyed the economy will be left out of the equation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭ Jack Noble


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    The tough decision has to be taken by the next government.

    FF/GP are in a historical win-win situation over MN.

    If it's built, they got the ball rolling.

    If it's not, someone else stopped it.

    The fact that FF/GP destroyed the economy will be left out of the equation.

    Check out what FG and Labour actually say. Their party positions are nearly indentical to that of the govt - any decision to proceed will be based on the winning PPP bid and the updated Cost Benefit Analysis based on those figures.

    Gilmore and Costello have waffled their holes off re Metro North but actual party policy is very nuanced.

    Sinn Fein also strongly supports the project and have it (and Dart Underground) factored into their stimulus plans. Talking to a senior Dublin Shinner recently, I was surprised at how strong their support is for Metro North is and their reasons why. Seems, unlike Gilmore and Costello, they've done their homework on the project.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    I don't mean to dredge up this topic but I should probably qualify something I said earlier;
    monument wrote: »
    But regarding what Bluntguy posted about there being "no real enthusiasm nor drive nor desire for the project", that's not true. The Green Party and some FF ministers have -- rightly or wrongly -- defended the project quite a bit.

    No one has come out and said it will be built, it will happen. Instead we've been getting guarded statements, ifs and buts and celebrations of "significant milestones" that should've happened years ago if they were serious about this. To me, that doesn't come across as enthusiasm, it doesn't come acrosss like they're confident that this project will actually go ahead. Every year a firm commitment has been put off, and now they won't even be the ones making the commitment, which most likely suits them fine. You can call it cynical, and that's fine, I appreciate other people will see those statements as genuine, as evidence that things are proceeding as planned, and might suggest that making measured statements is probably best at a time of economic uncertainty. I am not convinced however. The way Dart Underground has been shafted does not bode well for this project, even if it is further progressed.

    As for Noel Dempsey:
    The transport minister said in the Dail, under two months ago, that "It is wonderful that no matter how often a Minister stands up and says a project is going ahead, all it takes is one newspaper article for someone to say it is not going ahead."

    It's bit of an arrogant statement coming from someone who has promised the Navan Rail Corridor 73,000 times and delivered a mere 4 mile strip of track stretching to Pace.


  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭ Jack Noble


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    I don't mean to dredge up this topic but I should probably qualify something I said earlier;



    No one has come out and said it will be built, it will happen. Instead we've been getting guarded statements, ifs and buts and celebrations of "significant milestones" that should've happened years ago if they were serious about this. To me, that doesn't come across as enthusiasm, it doesn't come acrosss like they're confident that this project will actually go ahead. Every year a firm commitment has been put off, and now they won't even be the ones making the commitment, which most likely suits them fine. You can call it cynical, and that's fine, I appreciate other people will see those statements as genuine, as evidence that things are proceeding as planned, and might suggest that making measured statements is probably best at a time of economic uncertainty. I am not convinced however. The way Dart Underground has been shafted does not bode well for this project, even if it is further progressed.

    As for Noel Dempsey:



    It's bit of an arrogant statement coming from someone who has promised the Navan Rail Corridor 73,000 times and delivered a mere 4 mile strip of track stretching to Pace.

    No politician from govt or opposition can give an absolute commitment to Metro North until the PPP bid details are submitted and analysed. That's why you have the 'wait and see what the figures are' approach from all the main parties.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,414 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    Jack Noble wrote: »
    No politician from govt or opposition can give an absolute commitment to Metro North until the PPP bid details are submitted and analysed. That's why you have the 'wait and see what the figures are' approach from all the main parties.
    Exactly. It wouldn't matter whether they said "might happen" or "will happen". When you have a financial crisis there is inherent instability in the public finances making absolute 100% commitment to transportation projects impossible. Financial and social stability must come first.

    The level of commitment shown so far is as much as could be expected.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭✭ Metrostar


    Actually, all the indicators are the MN will proceed having finally jumped the dreadful hurdle of the An Board Pleneala planning process.

    We can milk the Europeans for a billiion from their investment fund and the rest can easily be taken from our pension reserve fund, which will still have a few billion left over after the rest is used to recapitalize the zombie banks.

    In fact, all the billions and billions that we've been able to plough into the banks just go to show that the issue of costs is a red herring. Our government, even with today's huge deficit, has the financial wherewithal to pay for metro. It's a question of priorities. In my view it's far preferable to invest in MN and jobs rather than throwing money at a Nordic style social welfare system Ireland cannot afford.

    Look at Spain. Yes, it's also one of the PIGS, but it's still investing in metros; Barcelona's line 9 proceeds apace and new lines are in planning. Spain recently decided to stop paying unemployment benefits to those who are out of work for more than 2 years. Ireland needs to copy Spain's example: get tougher on the jobshy and invest those savings in infrastructure projects that get the country moving again.


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