First date insecurities

phoenix7777

I met a woman off the net for a date on at 1pm Saturday, we met in a pub. We chatted and got on really well, everything we said we seemed to relate to, from music to our favourite film, to even both having been to the pyramids and to Jim Morrisons grave, even our ancestors are from the same place.

We ate and drank more and more, we got more and more flirty and kissed and touched, in between she really opened up to me, told me about the losers she had had in her life, how one had beaten her when her son was small, and only allowed her to pick him up when he said so, how he beat and raped her and she had escaped one night with her son and left everything behind, how he had destroyed her life.

She had also worked as an escort for 2 yrs,for the money and hated it.

How she trained to become a dental nurse, but every guy she met was a loser. I asked if she done drugs, she said, yeah, coke, Es etc, I told her I hadnt for about 10 years.

She told me she had a F*** buddy, who had a girlfriend and came round to have sex with her and do stuff "his girlfriend would not do". I said to her she had no self respect.

By now alarm bells were ringing but I liked her. I told her I was pretty focussed and hoped to start a sailing school in the Greek islands in two yrs, how I was into walking, meditation, self development etc. But how I had no problem with her partying.

She talked about her depression, anti depressents she was taking, by now I was pi****d. I told her stuff I had been through in my life, losing my home, my wife dying and losing my business in the space of 18 months and how it changed me in my outlook, and about the black days I had gone through.

We went back to her place, she told me she was sexually dominant, and it scared alot of guys off. We kissed and touched, I undressed her, she started to undress me, it was 1 am, to tell the truth after 12 hours of drinking 11 pints and vodka I was too p**** to be in the mood.

And stuff she had said had turned me off.

She lay back and demaded I f*** her, I told her to chill. In the night and next day I was pretty ill, vomiting etc, she let my lay in her bed while she went to the shops and nursed me. She was so caring nor did she even have a hangover.

I left her place about 6pm Sunday, we plan to meet again and talk everynight.

I really like her, but have such mixed feeling about her.

She has asked me over Christmas eve, said she would cook for me. Shes really into cooking, does courses in it. She was quite suprised I am too.

I think this could be the start of something good where we both go on amazing journey and she gets empowered, and some inner self esteem and stops being self destructive.

Or one where she tries to draw me into to her world and fcks my head.

I want to slow things down, try to build something built on mutual respect, I want to help her be happy, just chill and enjoy life.

It was a very special date for both of us, so different but so alike.

Yet the alarm bells keep ringing.

Am I mad ?

Beetlebum

Wow...

That's a lot to take in on a first date, in fact that's a lot to take in on a hundreth date!

Personally I'd run a mile if a guy I met opened up that much to me when I barely knew him. This women sounds completely unstable and in need of professional help. She told you her deepest darkest secrets and put her trust in you on a first date. Not a healthy sign. Trust is something which should be earned and I wouldn't want to be with anybody who would open up so quickly.

To be honest your story made me feel kind of sick. It's all very seedy ; you were sinking pints all day, she wanted filthy s*x on the first night, she told you she was raped, she's a drug user, the list goes on and on.

I hope your post is not real cause it's very depressing.

I'm actually going to stop writing now as I want nothing more to do with it.

Good luck. Ugh.

phoenix7777

The connection was beautiful.

Im not responsible for this womans past, I sense she is a decent person who has had bad influences all her life and is indeed insecure.

She told me she wants to get into fitness with me, Im into doing running events events for charity.

Getting drunk, when your seriously getting on with someone is hardly the worst crime.

And it was her who dragged me into her bed, hence my deep unease, Im a guy, I prefer to seduce over a few dates, its much more romantic, rather then be with a woman who demands sex, that for me is a major turn off.

We got on great but one half does have doubts.

I told her I saw something beautiful in her just wanting to break through, she said no one had said anything to her like that in her life.

She told me sometimes she feels suicidal, I just want her to accept herself and be happy, realise her potential.

But shes got to me and I am breaking my golden rule on never getting fixated to quickly on one woman.

My last gf was the stable, very conservative professional type, really boring.

Katgurl

you sound so nice OP.

that story reads like a 'How NOT to act on a first date' manual for women.

i think you should see her again. she might be at a turning point in her life and a really amazing connection is hard to find. nothing you said about her suggests she isnt a lovely person, just that she seems to attract chaos.

however, and i really really mean this, please take things verrrry slowly. as in leave the door open to get out. you are correct that she could drag you into her world and all the stuff she talked about suggest patterns of self-harm / complete lack of self-esteem etc. Its not your job to fix her / look after her / be her emotional punchbag. Plus relationships are two-way so if you do end up in one make sure your needs are also being met too its not just a constant pandering to her issues. She opened up to you a lot about herself, was she interested in YOU?

tell her you like her and want to let the intimate side of things develop more slowly. arrange to see her again but dont be talkign every minute of the day & don't meet her more than once or twice a week.

Proceed with caution Good luck.

phoenix7777

Thankyou.

She told me most men cant handle her. I could if she was just a f**** buddy who I had no connection with, but shes created an emotional link by making me feel sympathy for her, Im a nice guy.

Things she has said are really making me cautious. She said she liked to mess around with her best friend who was female sometimes and "pretend to be lesbians". I asked if she was bi, she said no. Remember we were both pretty pi****d when she told me this stuff, but they do say drink shows the real person. Maybe she was trying to impress, I dont know.

10 minutes later she said she sometimes stayed over with her best friend and her husband, "but had her own bedroom", I found this a really weird thing to say.

Problem is If I get emotionally involved with this woman, she could wreck my head.

I have to emotionally keep her at a distance, but that means not respecting her as I would like too.

She sent a text this morning telling me how she wished I was cuddling her in her warm bed.

Normally I would like this, but I see it as emotional pressure due to all the stuff she has said....shes controlling the situtation.

Ive got such mixed feelings about it.

Katgurl

OP, i had to come back and post again.

I think your attitude is great because so many men (people actually) would be judgemental and you're not.

But to be quite honest, she sounds a ****ing toxic nightmare. You are going to be dating not only her but her abundance of problems, issues, insecurities, addictions blah blah. And when all the time in the relationship is spent dealing with them there will be nothing & i mean nothing left for you.

I know she might appeal in an exciting way but she is quite frankly too much of a mess for a relationship. A woman like that needs to fix herself before she could have anythign halfway decent with anybody else.

I really really think you should run far away from her. Your posts sound like you are being swept along with something and you're not getting chance to direct it yourself at all. Your ex may have seemed conservative and boring by comparison but there is definitely a happy medium - look for a woman who will open up, who is sexually liberated but isn't so utterly rubbish at understanding relationships / boundaries and looks in all the wrong places for validation.

Fooling around with her best friend even though she's not into girls? And then 'bragging' about it? Is she 12? It seems that $ex is the only way she knows how to communicate. its sad because until she gets a grip on herself and realise she has other assets than over-availability she will always be lonely and reaching out to anyone who will have her.

Seriously OP, you're putting your hand out to be slapped here.

miec

I know she might appeal in an exciting way but she is quite frankly too much of a mess for a relationship. A woman like that needs to fix herself before she could have anythign halfway decent with anybody else.

This is very true and considering in a sense I was a deeply unboundaried woman like the one you have met, I should know. I used to open up big time, hoping for someone to save me / take me from my stuff. Unfortunately no one can help another escape their stuff. Its kind of weird but this thread has been a bit of an eye-opener for me. I was a bit (not completely) like the girl you have met. I never realised that my baggage was attractive to men, and to be honest Op you might be repelled by aspects of it but you are also deeply attracted to it too, why is that? Why do you want to 'save' this woman? Personally, and I cannot believe I am saying this, you need to step away from her and examine why you are drawn to such a troubled person.

phoenix7777

miec wrote: »

This is very true and considering in a sense I was a deeply unboundaried woman like the one you have met, I should know. I used to open up big time, hoping for someone to save me / take me from my stuff. Unfortunately no one can help another escape their stuff. Its kind of weird but this thread has been a bit of an eye-opener for me. I was a bit (not completely) like the girl you have met. I never realised that my baggage was attractive to men, and to be honest Op you might be repelled by aspects of it but you are also deeply attracted to it too, why is that? Why do you want to 'save' this woman? Personally, and I cannot believe I am saying this, you need to step away from her and examine why you are drawn to such a troubled person.

Good question.

It goes back to my childhood, my mother who I had a really good relationship with was married to my father who was an abusive alchoholic, all I saw growing up was arguments and violence. We used to have to walk the streets at 2am.

Then was I was 14 I faced down my father.

My father was a bastard growing up, thrived on me fighting etc, told me nothing I ever done was as good as my elder brother, from kicking a ball to school. So all my life Ive had this inner drive to prove myself. In one way its made me very independendent. I dont do emotions normally, I just get on with life. Hence my intrest in sailing, its about self reliance.

I saw something in this woman I saw in my late wife, shes also very similiar looking.


I have two older sisters, one is a coke addict who has had numerous a-hole boyfriends.

I have always had a good relationship with women, I get on with women better then guys. I have never really related to ultra stable people from ultra stable backgrounds, people with a twist have always intrested me more especially women.

I put this down to my unstablechildhood, it made me feel very detached growing up. Yet for some reason I turned out psychologically reliable, I put this down to my good relationship with my Mother.

Its like I overcompensate for my father putting me down by doing martial arts, weights etc, some women find the masculine exterior with my inner personality which relates to them quite an attraction.

Then there was my late wife who I met when she was 15 and I was 19, she was from an abusive background, she lived with me after 2 weeks, I was 19. We had a really good relationship in every way. We were together 18 yrs.

seenitall

phoenix7777 wrote: »

My last gf was the stable, very conservative professional type, really boring.

Eh? Wasn't your last g/f the stalkerish psycho from the other thread on here that you started on the same day??

My advice to you would be: keep the psychos in some kind of chronological order at least, it will make life somewhat easier. Although not by much.

Seriously, though, OP, your two threads don't paint you in a very flattering light, at least not to me. You seem to be attracted to very damaged women, which is usually a telling sign of some kind of psychological damage in oneself as well. Another telling sign is that your personal boundaries seem to be all over the shop (as, again, exemplified in both your threads).

If I were you, I would be looking into my own emotional well-being more than worrying about the weird people orbiting around. Otherwise, I have a feeling history will repeat itself, more than likely...

Best wishes.

phoenix7777

Stable as in having a job, a mortgage and having a bit of a boring conservative outlook on life. When things are going well shes great, but under any kind of pressure especially emotional she cracks up.


QUOTE

Another telling sign is that your personal boundaries seem to be all over the shop (as, again, exemplified in both your threads).

.......I dont understand what you mean by this ? In what way ?

Im think Im pretty consistant.

Dont we all have a few issues ? Considering my background I think Im a pretty decent guy, especially the more I hear of others ex's, I may be a bit damaged but thats not my fault. I certainly dont take my inner anger out on others, I put it into the things that drive me on.

Statistically for my background... youngest of 5,(one died), violent alchoholic father, grew up on a inner city council estate,left school young as my education was disrupted, Ive done alright. I had a long term relationship which ended by death rather then break up, I dont hit women,nor ponce off them, dont do drugs, nor drink alot, apart from the odd session, Ive never been in jail. I own my own home have my dreams am quite focussed.

seenitall

Sorry OP, but going on your two threads, consistency is really not an attribute that jumps out here.

What I mean by issue with personal boundaries is amply exemplified in your current problem with your stalkerish ex. How do you break up with someone over several weeks? It's a joke. It is wrecking both people's heads. I know you think you are being kind by entertaining her misery, but in reality all you are letting yourself in for is more chance for emotional blackmail and much more drama than you need. Not being able to tell the difference and saying things like "but I CAN'T not talk to her, she is so upset" - that's what I mean by personal boundaries.

With your current flame, again the issue crops up, where you let people say and do stuff you are not entirely comfortable with, (indeed her odd behaviour on a first date raised big red flags as it would for anyone) and YET - "the connection was beautiful". If this is you being consistant and grounded in reality, I'd hate to know how things go for you when you are not!

There is a bit of a saviour complex going on there (not just a bit, actually, IMO). You want to help the poor woman, she's had a tough time of it, etc. What type of man is attracted to such an obvious charity project of a woman, what type of person can find "the connection" with someone so obviously troubled and needy, "beautiful"? Are you a saint? No, I think you are getting something out of getting involved with needy, clingy, messed-up women, too. A strange kind of ego-boost, perhaps.

I'll stop before I go any further with my amateur psychology. Remember, it's just my two cents. I do believe you mean well etc, but the way you are going about finding romance seems to me nothing short of disastrous, both for yourself and others.

phoenix7777

seenitall wrote: »

Sorry OP, but going on your two threads, consistency is really not an attribute that jumps out here.

What I mean by issue with personal boundaries is amply exemplified in your current problem with your stalkerish ex. How do you break up with someone over several weeks? It's a joke. It is wrecking both people's heads. I know you think you are being kind by entertaining her misery, but in reality all you are letting yourself in for is more chance for emotional blackmail and much more drama than you need. Not being able to tell the difference and saying things like "but I CAN'T not talk to her, she is so upset" - that's what I mean by personal boundaries.

With your current flame, again the issue crops up, where you let people say and do stuff you are not entirely comfortable with, (indeed her odd behaviour on a first date raised big red flags as it would for anyone) and YET - "the connection was beautiful". If this is you being consistant and grounded in reality, I'd hate to know how things go for you when you are not!

There is a bit of a saviour complex going on there (not just a bit, actually, IMO). You want to help the poor woman, she's had a tough time of it, etc. What type of man is attracted to such an obvious charity project of a woman, what type of person can find "the connection" with someone so obviously troubled and needy, "beautiful"? Are you a saint? No, I think you are getting something out of getting involved with needy, clingy, messed-up women, too. A strange kind of ego-boost, perhaps.

I'll stop before I go any further with my amateur psychology. Remember, it's just my two cents. I do believe you mean well etc, but the way you are going about finding romance seems to me nothing short of disastrous, both for yourself and others.

We did get on amazingly well, the dodgy stuff she said all came out after a few hours of drinking. By that time I was to pissed to care.

Im now meeting her tonight, just going to the pics, I dont want any deep chat.

I have done a fair bit of dating in my experience most women have issues and baggage, its part of life.

Unless you want to date the ultra boring professional type, who want you to fit in with their lifestyle and career.

Modern dating and relationships are much more complex nowadays, by their 30s many have dysfunctional relationships and multiple partners behind them. Thats just the way it is nowadays.

The nice girls seem to be all banged up with numerous kids, thats just how it is.

I just want to meet someone to enjoy life with and travel with etc. Is that asking to much ?


Im a giving person, Im no saint, I have been through alot in life, maybe thats why I relate to women who have, rather then those who have been to uni from classic middle class stable backgrounds. Maybe because of my past I relate to theirs.

I would regard myself as an intuitive Alpha. Im bound to unconsciously attract such types, thats the way it is.

seenitall

Fine, OP. Why don't you just ignore those alarm bells and enjoy your new relationship, so?

I wish you all the best with it!

phoenix7777

seenitall wrote: »

Fine, OP. Why don't you just ignore those alarm bells and enjoy your new relationship, so?

I wish you all the best with it!

Im not ignoring the alarm bells, theres about 50 going off, lol.

Including the one where she said she wants to find a guy to pay for a boob job :-)

Im at a loose end over christmas, I will see her, but remain detched from her heavy chat, and do all I can to keep it light.

Im nobodies fool.

Shes already making plans for us to go out new years eve !!!!!!!!!

I suppose I was a bit naughty when I was pissed told her I wanted her to be my girlfriend and that I also did a really good all over Thai massage :-) I have baited her a bit.


Told her Im just looking for a woman to give my all too, totally adore and love......which is true. :-) its just finding her thats the problem, lol.

phoenix7777

Another question.

Shes invited me to her house Christmas eve for dinner, I cant turn up empty handed, but it will be only our third date.

I will bring a bottle.

What should I bring her ? This is awkward. Its only a third date.

Im not into buying women stuff, cause they see it as you being a mug.

Unless your really going out together.

miec

I have been through alot in life, maybe thats why I relate to women who have, rather then those who have been to uni from classic middle class stable backgrounds. Maybe because of my past I relate to theirs.

Hi Op

I get a clearer picture now, basically as I see it, when you were a kid you were your mother's saviour ie: beating up your dad. Judging from your posts / responses you are repeating this pattern with this woman, possibly others in the past as well. It is good you have managed to maintain a stable lifestyle ie: job / habits etc but not every abused person turns to drugs or other chaotic stuff. They manage to maintain a modicum of normality. Do you like to be needed? Also when you have 'helped' women how has it turned out long term? Have they turned on you?

I suppose I was a bit naughty when I was pissed told her I wanted her to be my girlfriend and that I also did a really good all over Thai massage :-) I have baited her a bit.

Ouch, that really is unfair, it sounds like to me you are using her to pass the time. Is that really fair?

Katgurl

I retract my earlier statement that you sound nice.

I'll be banned if I suggest this is a troll so I'll call you deluded instead.

You have deliberately misled this woman about your intentions, which is **** to do to anyone but considering her mental health downright irresponsible. You are mocking her making plans. And if you think you can keep things 'light' here then you sound as crazy as her.

Just cut it off with her, tell her you're not into something this heavy and don't be back here saying you can't get rid of this woman who won't accept you don't want relationship despite you telling her you wanted casual.

I really think you should take a long hard look at your own input into these messes.

Also, considering you are an adult and presumably looking to date women older than teenagers, having a career or being a professional type does not equate to boring. It suggests a certain lack of unnecessary chaos in one aspect of life.

phoenix7777

Met her tonight, went to see the Narnia film, pretty good.

This was like the first date, she turned up and was pretty shy, with a drink in her shes another person

Went to a bar after joked about how we had done the dates back to front, she got more confident with even 1 drink afterwards, opened up.

I know we could become really good friends, shes met a-holes all her life who have let her down.

Shes invited to to hers on Friday.

Tonight I was sober, drink makes people your best friend :-( Never got the special connection tonight.

Moral of the story dont get pissed and use NLP techniques on dates, you create chemistry which is not naturally there.

As for me using her, yeah right :rolleyes:

Nevyn

How about you got get some real life professional help to deal with your issues with women and stop creating new account to tell stories here, thanks.