Where do companies get rights to use direct debit as they wish?

mstq

Hello

i asked earlier on in "Customer" board sub-section if different companies can use direct debit to withdraw money from my account earlier them specified. Answere i received was "Yes". My question now would be "where do they get rights/power to do so from?"

kaiser sauze

The do not have the power to raid your account whenever they wish.

They must give you reasonable notice.

Can you post up more detail on your situation?

MagicSean

I had the same problem this week. Car loan was taken a week early, obviously due to Christmas. No notice given. If I hadn't lodged money I'd won yesterday morning it would have exceeded my overdraft limit and been rejected.

kaiser sauze

k_mac wrote: »

I had the same problem this week. Car loan was taken a week early, obviously due to Christmas. No notice given. If I hadn't lodged money I'd won yesterday morning it would have exceeded my overdraft limit and been rejected.

Ouch!

And as we speak I just checked my account and a direct debit, for which I have the original paperwork, that is due for request on the 23rd of every month has been taken from my account this morning. :rolleyes:

I really despise the direct debit scheme, it is abused beyond belief.

Anyway, back to OP....we are here to help...:)

spoonface

kaiser sauze wrote: »

Ouch!

And as we speak I just checked my account and a direct debit, for which I have the original paperwork, that is due for request on the 23rd of every month has been taken from my account this morning. :rolleyes:

I really despise the direct debit scheme, it is abused beyond belief.

Anyway, back to OP....we are here to help...:)

That's really not on. Put in a complaint to IPSO who oversees the direct debit scheme. You could also use it as leverage to tell the company in question that since they cant be trusted with a direct debit, you'll cancel it and pay by cheque or manual transfer instead.

kaiser sauze

spoonface wrote: »

That's really not on. Put in a complaint to IPSO who oversees the direct debit scheme. You could also use it as leverage to tell the company in question that since they cant be trusted with a direct debit, you'll cancel it and pay by cheque or manual transfer instead.

To be honest, IPSO are a complete waste of time, I have form and history of giving banks hell over direct debits.

Sometimes, if they are Originator Plus, cancelling a direct debit will be ineffective as they can just setup a new one.

spoonface

kaiser sauze wrote: »

To be honest, IPSO are a complete waste of time, I have form and history of giving banks hell over direct debits.

Sometimes, if they are Originator Plus, cancelling a direct debit will be ineffective as they can just setup a new one.

I would write a letter to the company explaining why you are cancelling it. Also, if you're very worried about them reactivating it, you could close your bank account and open a new one (a hassle I know).

kaiser sauze

spoonface wrote: »

I would write a letter to the company explaining why you are cancelling it. Also, if you're very worried about them reactivating it, you could close your bank account and open a new one (a hassle I know).

Cheers for that.

Now, let's await the OP giving us some more info so we can help them.

AMHRASACH

Direct debits; a menace.

mstq

Every single month i'm having some f**k taking money off my account other than specified and now every single company that was using direct debit, charged one earlier. I'd like to know if there is a way to stop this from happening. Can I enforce that they only withdraw money when TOLD to.

And how does it look legaly? Cause if i'd told you "well, on saturday you can take my car for a ride", but you took it on thursday, that would be thiefiery, wouldn't it?

kaiser sauze

mstq wrote: »

Every single month i'm having some f**k taking money off my account other than specified

Do you mean the date that they specified or the amount?

Direct debits allow for variable amounts, which is why companies tend to favour them.

mstq wrote: »

and now every single company that was using direct debit, charged one earlier.

I really do not understand this, you will have to clarify.

mstq wrote: »

I'd like to know if there is a way to stop this from happening.

You can cancel any direct debit on your account by instructing your bank. If you have online banking setup, you may be able to do it there.

If your bank tells you that you must instruct the company to stop the direct debit they are lying.

mstq wrote: »

Can I enforce that they only withdraw money when TOLD to.

Not really.

Direct debits allow companies to change the days which they withdraw from your account, however, they are supposed to give you reasonable notice that they are doing this.

mstq

kaiser wrote:

Do you mean the date that they specified or the amount?

Direct debits allow for variable amounts, which is why companies tend to favour them.

Date.

kaiser wrote:

I really do not understand this, you will have to clarify.

Every single company that was allowed for direct debit from my account took money early on leaving me with no funds until 28th + extra charges for the fact that i didn't have enought money for all of them at the time (seriously, it's about 80 euro total)

kaiser wrote:

If your bank tells you that you must instruct the company to stop the direct debit they are lying.

They (bank) said that if i allow someone to you direct debit from my account they can take money from my account any time they want to, disregarding the specified date.

kaiser wrote:

they are supposed to give you reasonable notice that they are doing this.

What if they didn't? (cause they didn't >_> )

kaiser sauze

mstq wrote: »

Date.

Write to the company and ask them for an explanation as to why the debited before the agreed date and why they did not give you notice. Explain to them, that as a result of them calling early that you have been deducted money for going overdrawn and that if their explanation is not satisfactory you will be asking for a refund of this money.

mstq wrote: »

Every single company that was allowed for direct debit from my account took money early on leaving me with no funds until 28th + extra charges for the fact that i didn't have enought money for all of them at the time (seriously, it's about 80 euro total)

This is important.

As a result of this, your credit history has been tarnished.

You need to discuss these charges with your bank and if you manage to get the companies above to admit their error you can then ask the bank to expunge these events from your record. Get this in writing for future reference!

mstq wrote: »

They (bank) said that if i allow someone to you direct debit from my account they can take money from my account any time they want to, disregarding the specified date.

That is false, if they did not give you notice they are not allowed to change the date.

mstq wrote: »

What if they didn't? (cause they didn't >_> )

You complain directly to the company as I explained in my first paragraph to you. Let them know that you will request a refund from your bank (which you are entitled to do) and if that is not successful you will report them to IPSO and complain to the Financial Ombudsman.

---ADDENDUM

Are these direct debits for variable amounts or are they always the same?

mstq

both fixed and variables.

does this make any difference? I know you might say that i just mighten pay more something more then i expected, but i exactly knew how much i will be paying (those were delivery bills).

kaiser sauze

mstq wrote: »

both fixed and variables.

does this make any difference? I know you might say that i just mighten pay more something more then i expected, but i exactly knew how much i will be paying (those were delivery bills).

OK, for the fixed ones ask for details to use the standing order system to make the payments. This means that you are completely in control of the payment and they do not even know the account from which you make them payment, i.e. they do not get your account number, sort code etc

For the variable ones, if they have a giro stub on the bills, use this to set them up as a payee on your account and then when the bill is issued you can simply hop on and make the payment yourself. Make sure you set your account number as the reference!

Using the above methods you will be in more control of the process and your accounts cannot be raided on their whims.

If your service suppliers do not offer either of the above you are stuck into negotiating with them, some, like MBNA, will give you bank details to setup a standing order, but many are resolutely stuck in the direct debit system and you will have to keep on their case and not give them any leeway to abuse your account.

Boskowski

I simply don't do direct debits. I don't like them for the very reason of me losing control of what's going our when. There is a lot of ways of paying your bills timely at no extra cost and effort like online banking or billpay. Ok they all evolve around being online. I avoid direct debits like the plague.

kaiser sauze

Boskowski wrote: »

I simply don't do direct debits. I don't like them for the very reason of me losing control of what's going our when. There is a lot of ways of paying your bills timely at no extra cost and effort like online banking or billpay. Ok they all evolve around being online. I avoid direct debits like the plague.

The problem with direct debits is they make things easy all around, too easy for companies/billers.

It preys on the lazy Irish psyche and at times I don't have sympathy for some of the sob stories I hear as people tend to not be proactive enough to stop the abuse.

It's their account, and direct debit or no direct debit, the customer is in control of what comes out of their account at all times. It is just a matter of enforcing that control.

WildOscar

kaiser sauze wrote: »

Sometimes, if they are Originator Plus, cancelling a direct debit will be ineffective as they can just setup a new one.

how can they do this without your permission?

Our man in Havana

WildOscar wrote: »

how can they do this without your permission?

They can and frequently do. Their defence will be that you gave them an initial catch all authorisation. Also these initial authorisations are frequently paperless either being voice or via the internet. Banks are simply giving the billers the benefit of the doubt that they have a good faith basis for taking the money thus placing the onus on the bank account holder to chase up any trouble later.

WildOscar

Haddockman wrote: »

They can and frequently do. Their defence will be that you gave them an initial catch all authorisation. Also these initial authorisations are frequently paperless either being voice or via the internet. Banks are simply giving the billers the benefit of the doubt that they have a good faith basis for taking the money thus placing the onus on the bank account holder to chase up any trouble later.

be int to hear what the consumer people would say