What happened to ordinary communists and anarchists in Nazi Germany?

HavingCrack

I've always been really curious about how the Nazi's completely destroyed oppostion amongst ordinary Germans. In the last election of the Weimar Republic the German Communist Party won 13% of the vote so clearly there was a lot of support amongst ordinary Germans while anarchism was always popular in Germany.

I'm aware that most of the KPD and anarchist leaders were either arrested or fled to the USSR or western Europe and America but what I'm interested is the ordinary members. Were they forced to join the German army during ww2? Were they trusted not to desert to the Russians? Obviously some ended up in concentration camps but I can't imagine that amount of support simply became dedicated Nazis overnight.

Morlar

HavingCrack wrote: »

I can't imagine that amount of support simply became dedicated Nazis overnight.

Do you approach this from the perspective that non communists in the German army were 'dedicated nazi's' ?

Maybe you can define what that is ?

Someone who voted for them because there was no viable opposition ? Someone who felt aspects of their programme to be for the common good & thought the the alternative was ineffective, weak divisive leadership ?
A party member ? Or someone who was charmed during the earlier days into voting for them ?

HavingCrack

Morlar wrote: »

Do you approach this from the perspective that non communists in the German army were 'dedicated nazi's' ?

Maybe you can define what that is ?

Someone who voted for them because there was no viable opposition ? Someone who felt aspects of their programme to be for the common good & thought the the alternative was ineffective, weak divisive leadership ?
A party member ? Or someone who was charmed during the earlier days into voting for them ?

Fair enough maybe dedicated Nazi's isn't what I meant really. I'm aware people voted for the Nazi's for all of the above mentioned reasons. I know you didn't have to be a communist not to be a Nazi. I suppose the German army were expected to be apolitical prior to the Enabling Act anyway so politics didn't matter but anyway I've gone slightly off topic. I hope that clarifies it.

I'm only really interested in those who voted for the communists or were communist party members or anarchists and their subsequent experiences rather than the population as a whole.

Morlar

I think the approach to dealing with the communists (post nsdap coming to power) was multi facetted.

One element was to try where possible to reconcile them to the new society.

If this was not possible they were bullied into silence or submission if that didn't work they were removed and concentrated in labour camps until they were seen as having mended their ways.

The communist party was outlawed, leaders harrassed/chased out/imprisoned. With the leaders out of the way the isolated movements lost effectiveness and strength.

Workers unions (which had been a breeding ground for communists) were gradually amalgamated and then nazified (for want of a better phrase via the NSBO-DAF) into a single consolidated party union.

This was also compulsory.

Making it compulsory drowned out the voices of extremist fringe leftist anarchists and communists by forcing them to operate in a single union along with ALL of the rest of the non militant workers in society. This included workers on the right, rural and urban who were antagonistic to communism for practical or religious or ideological reasons. This move would have weakened the communist voice considerably.

Agitation was not permitted and law and order was strictly enforced. So there were no protests permitted which could have led to recruitment to begin with and so their days were always numbered. Gradually those elements faded out of public sight.

Media control would also have been a factor. Malcontents and 'underminers' were not tolerated in the press. Another factor is that Workers rights and the general lot of the worker did improve under nsdap.

From high levels of inflation and unemployment to almost full employment and widespread prosperity in record time.

The Labour service (NDSAD, then RAD) also played a role here. Workers days, workers holidays, facilities and social and leisure organisations enabled common workers to have holidays in spas and retreats and all of this played a role here and it all had the combined result of undermining communism. Cheap rail travel, cheap automobiles and new motorways also saw a rise in leisure tourism by German workers within Germany. These social changes helped communists to lose grip as the perception was that workers concerns & issues were generally being addressed.

Media spin/Propaganda caused the population (by and large) to see the communists as jewish bolsheviks. Foreign invaders out to undermine german society like a cancerous growth. As jews were disproportionately present in upper communist circles (both in Germany and Russia) this would have seemed to be true to many people. Also it's important to recognise that Russia had fallen but 2 decades previous and there had aleady been repeated concerted efforts at a communist takeover in Germany. So what opposition there had been to bolshevism was extremely firm and unyielding. Communism was not seen as fringe or harmless it was deemed a major threat to freedom & religion and so on. This caused no refrain in the systematic opposition to it and no cessation in the efforts to stamp it out.

Another factor in all this would be that 'success breeds success'. The economy was successful so the communists saw a natural drop off in support because of that.

There are all sorts of theories about nsdap being an 'outdoor' party where people were encouraged away from the solitary and towards more communal pursuits. You could argue that this would have meant that rogue communist elements would have a harder time to isolate people and find the weak links to recruit. So this element (if you accept it to begin with) possibly affected their progress also.

HavingCrack

Morlar wrote: »

I think the approach to dealing with the communists (post nsdap coming to power) was multi facetted.

One element was to try where possible to reconcile them to the new society.

If this was not possible they were bullied into silence or submission if that didn't work they were removed and concentrated in labour camps until they were seen as having mended their ways.

The communist party was outlawed, leaders harrassed/chased out/imprisoned. With the leaders out of the way the isolated movements lost effectiveness and strength.

Workers unions (which had been a breeding ground for communists) were gradually amalgamated and then nazified (for want of a better phrase via the NSBO-DAF) into a single consolidated party union.

This was also compulsory.

Making it compulsory drowned out the voices of extremist fringe leftist anarchists and communists by forcing them to operate in a single union along with ALL of the rest of the non militant workers in society. This included workers on the right, rural and urban who were antagonistic to communism for practical or religious or ideological reasons. This move would have weakened the communist voice considerably.

Agitation was not permitted and law and order was strictly enforced. So there were no protests permitted which could have led to recruitment to begin with and so their days were always numbered. Gradually those elements faded out of public sight.

Media control would also have been a factor. Malcontents and 'underminers' were not tolerated in the press. Another factor is that Workers rights and the general lot of the worker did improve under nsdap.

From high levels of inflation and unemployment to almost full employment and widespread prosperity in record time.

The Labour service (NDSAD, then RAD) also played a role here. Workers days, workers holidays, facilities and social and leisure organisations enabled common workers to have holidays in spas and retreats and all of this played a role here and it all had the combined result of undermining communism. Cheap rail travel, cheap automobiles and new motorways also saw a rise in leisure tourism by German workers within Germany. These social changes helped communists to lose grip as the perception was that workers concerns & issues were generally being addressed.

Media spin/Propaganda caused the population (by and large) to see the communists as jewish bolsheviks. Foreign invaders out to undermine german society like a cancerous growth. As jews were disproportionately present in upper communist circles (both in Germany and Russia) this would have seemed to be true to many people. Also it's important to recognise that Russia had fallen but 2 decades previous and there had aleady been repeated concerted efforts at a communist takeover in Germany. So what opposition there had been to bolshevism was extremely firm and unyielding. Communism was not seen as fringe or harmless it was deemed a major threat to freedom & religion and so on. This caused no refrain in the systematic opposition to it and no cessation in the efforts to stamp it out.

Another factor in all this would be that 'success breeds success'. The economy was successful so the communists saw a natural drop off in support because of that.

There are all sorts of theories about nsdap being an 'outdoor' party where people were encouraged away from the solitary and towards more communal pursuits. You could argue that this would have meant that rogue communist elements would have a harder time to isolate people and find the weak links to recruit. So this element (if you accept it to begin with) possibly affected their progress also.

Cheers Morlar, I've always been really interested in this aspect of Nazi Germany, thanks for clearing it up. I suppose the 'socialist' part of Nazism was probably quite attractive to a lot of the working classes as well. The 'leftist' Nazi's were effectively silenced with the Night of the Long Knives but their ideas had probably already attracted a lot of support at that stage.

Morlar

HavingCrack wrote: »

The 'leftist' Nazi's were effectively silenced with the Night of the Long Knives but their ideas had probably already attracted a lot of support at that stage.

Not sure the night of the long knives was a party v party affair.

More that as the SA had grown out of the Freikorps and post ww1 they got a taste for revolution that they never really lost so as the party matured in it's goals and aims the SA had a less considered outlook. Rohm wanted heavy machine guns and he could have threatened the whole country. Also there were allegations he had personally plotted against hitler.

On the subject of communists . . . I read a very interesting interview once with an SA man who said that when he used to go to work he'd pass by his neighbour each day on the street - his neighbour was an active communist.

They would both regularly turn up at each others meetings and knock each others heads in but then when they passed each other on their own street they went back to being neighbours and wave hello etc as neither of them took it personally against the other.

He also spoke of the day he was assigned to picket outside a jewish shop. This he did all day till it was time to go home and he then went in and bought some bread from the shop he had been picketing so he would have something to eat when he got home. If I recall correctly his family always used that shop and weren't about to change their ways.

About the night of the long knives he spoke of how the party had lost touch with the SA. The SA often considered them to be the 'peacocks', vain and pompous.

There was one case where the nsdap party people turned up at a local SA meeting where the men were so poor they had holes in their shirts. This was at a time when the SA had to pay for their own uniform and also to pay weekly dues to be in the SA. So when the nsdap party people turned up in brand shiny new mercedes cars telling the SA they needed to be more prudent and that there was no money the SA lost it and smashed the cars up and sent them packing. After the night of the long knives (which lutze took a personal involvement in) some SA Sturm refused to march behind him and he knew this - always making sure that more loyal Sturm were placed behind him. There were also of course Rohms avengers within the SA who in the following years executed (iirc) approx 150 SS men suspected of involvement in that night. So my point is I am not sure this was all internal party specific, I think it was more down to the the relations & powerplays between the different organisations, SA /NSDAP/ SS etc. It makes sense to put the nsdap as the umbrella organisation above everything else and even though it may have eventually turned out that way I am not sure that this is always an accurate way to look back at the earlier periods.

HavingCrack

Morlar wrote: »

Not sure the night of the long knives was a party v party affair.

More that as the SA had grown out of the Freikorps and post ww1 they got a taste for revolution that they never really lost so as the party matured in it's goals and aims the SA had a less considered outlook. Rohm wanted heavy machine guns and he could have threatened the whole country. Also there were allegations he had personally plotted against hitler.

On the subject of communists . . . I read a very interesting interview once with an SA man who said that when he used to go to work he'd pass by his neighbour each day on the street - his neighbour was an active communist.

They would both regularly turn up at each others meetings and knock each others heads in but then when they passed each other on their own street they went back to being neighbours and wave hello etc as neither of them took it personally against the other.

He also spoke of the day he was assigned to picket outside a jewish shop. This he did all day till it was time to go home and he then went in and bought some bread from the shop he had been picketing so he would have something to eat when he got home. If I recall correctly his family always used that shop and weren't about to change their ways.

About the night of the long knives he spoke of how the party had lost touch with the SA. The SA often considered them to be the 'peacocks', vain and pompous.

There was one case where the nsdap party people turned up at a local SA meeting where the men were so poor they had holes in their shirts. This was at a time when the SA had to pay for their own uniform and also to pay weekly dues to be in the SA. So when the nsdap party people turned up in brand shiny new mercedes cars telling the SA they needed to be more prudent and that there was no money the SA lost it and smashed the cars up and sent them packing. After the night of the long knives (which lutze took a personal involvement in) some SA Sturm refused to march behind him and he knew this - always making sure that more loyal Sturm were placed behind him. There were also of course Rohms avengers within the SA who in the following years executed (iirc) approx 150 SS men suspected of involvement in that night. So my point is I am not sure this was all internal party specific, I think it was more down to the the relations & powerplays between the different organisations, SA /NSDAP/ SS etc. It makes sense to put the nsdap as the umbrella organisation above everything else and even though it may have eventually turned out that way I am not sure that this is always an accurate way to look back at the earlier periods.

I'd never really considered it that way before really. In my head I've always lumped the SA/NSDAP/SS etc into one big organisation when in reality it was more a case of lots of different groupings and organisations striving for position.

But anyway you've cleared up my query about the KPD so cheers.

killerking

Many ended up in death camps or else became Nazis and fought for Hitler.

ejmaztec

..or returned with the Russians in 1945 to set up the post-war East German regime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Ulbricht

Fuinseog

HavingCrack wrote: »

I've always been really curious about how the Nazi's completely destroyed oppostion amongst ordinary Germans. In the last election of the Weimar Republic the German Communist Party won 13% of the vote so clearly there was a lot of support amongst ordinary Germans while anarchism was always popular in Germany.

I'm aware that most of the KPD and anarchist leaders were either arrested or fled to the USSR or western Europe and America but what I'm interested is the ordinary members. Were they forced to join the German army during ww2? Were they trusted not to desert to the Russians? Obviously some ended up in concentration camps but I can't imagine that amount of support simply became dedicated Nazis overnight.

back then as today most people were opportunists and it was not unusual for the reds to go brown and even back to red again in 1945.

Sgt. Sensible

HavingCrack wrote: »

I've always been really curious about how the Nazi's completely destroyed oppostion amongst ordinary Germans. In the last election of the Weimar Republic the German Communist Party won 13% of the vote so clearly there was a lot of support amongst ordinary Germans while anarchism was always popular in Germany.

I'm aware that most of the KPD and anarchist leaders were either arrested or fled to the USSR or western Europe and America but what I'm interested is the ordinary members. Were they forced to join the German army during ww2? Were they trusted not to desert to the Russians? Obviously some ended up in concentration camps but I can't imagine that amount of support simply became dedicated Nazis overnight.

I''ll try answer this in depth later if I can as I have a fair bit of material on the period, I live in Berlin (only back to this mess for holliers), have a Die Linke MP friend who knows this stuff but just for now, yes there was still opposition from the KPD (and SPD) to the nazis after 1933, in the form of work sabotage/slacking, prisoner aid (Rote Hilfe) newspapers/magazines (see AIZ with John Heartfield's famous work), spying (although the well placed Red Orchestra network members weren't KPD) pamphlets and Johann Georg Elser's 1939 assassination attempt. Half the KPD membership was imprisoned at some stage before until 1939, 30,000 were murdered, and many joined the international brigades (see the Thalmann battalion) during the Spanish Civil War. There was also at least one penal battalion comprised of politicals who deserted at the first opportunity in WW2.

The anarchists I'm not so sure about, apart from the FAUD trade union, libcom have some info on them via the Kate Sharpley library.

In case I'm not back for ages, I recommend these two books for starters. Eve Rosenhaft shows just how bitter and violent the divisions were between the right and left wing parties, while Tim Mason argues that the failure of the nazis to get the industrial working class on board and the rapidly deteriorating economy hastened the decision to go to war.

Eve Rosenhaft - Beating the Fascists?: The German Communists and Political Violence 1929-1933.
Tim Mason - Social Policy in the Third Reich.

HavingCrack

Sgt. Sensible wrote: »

I''ll try answer this in depth later if I can as I have a fair bit of material on the period, I live in Berlin (only back to this mess for holliers), have a Die Linke MP friend who knows this stuff but just for now, yes there was still opposition from the KPD (and SPD) to the nazis after 1933, in the form of work sabotage/slacking, prisoner aid (Rote Hilfe) newspapers/magazines (see AIZ with John Heartfield's famous work), spying (although the well placed Red Orchestra network members weren't KPD) pamphlets and Johann Georg Elser's 1939 assassination attempt. Half the KPD membership was imprisoned at some stage before until 1939, 30,000 were murdered, and many joined the international brigades (see the Thalmann battalion) during the Spanish Civil War. There was also at least one penal battalion comprised of politicals who deserted at the first opportunity in WW2.

The anarchists I'm not so sure about, apart from the FAUD trade union, libcom have some info on them via the Kate Sharpley library.

In case I'm not back for ages, I recommend these two books for starters. Eve Rosenhaft shows just how bitter and violent the divisions were between the right and left wing parties, while Tim Mason argues that the failure of the nazis to get the industrial working class on board and the rapidly deteriorating economy hastened the decision to go to war.

Eve Rosenhaft - Beating the Fascists?: The German Communists and Political Violence 1929-1933.
Tim Mason - Social Policy in the Third Reich.

Ah yes, this is exactly what I was trying to find out :D:D. Thank's a lot, I'll have to read some of those materials.

Sgt. Sensible

HavingCrack wrote: »

Ah yes, this is exactly what I was trying to find out :D:D. Thank's a lot, I'll have to read some of those materials.

You're welcome, it's an interesting thread idea. In a rush but look up stuff by Ian Kershaw (Popular Opinion and Political Dissent in the Third Reich) and Detlev Peukert. Also I came across a subtitled interview with a KPD member and penal battalion veteran here which might interest you.

hinault

Fuinseog wrote: »

back then as today most people were opportunists and it was not unusual for the reds to go brown and even back to red again in 1945.

I think this is a very salient point.

In the final days of WW2 many die hard Nazi's and Waffen SS suddenly walked away from their trenchant beliefs held from 1933 to early 1945.
Self preservation, opportunism and fear of retribution being the driving factors.

Reading the historical accounts about the rise of Nazism, the one threat used by the incumbent Nazi party was that Germany was in serious danger of being taken over by the Bolsheviks during the period of the decline of the Weimar Republic.
Whether this threat was real or not, it persuaded the German people to elect the NSDAP (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) aka Nazi's.
the Communists for example were blamed for burning down the Reichstag in 1933 by the Nazi's, for example, and this led to the arrest of thousands of communists.