Kids living in Uk

Richyd

I am gettin desperate now. I am a seperated man who has 2 daughters with my ex wife. She has never been happy letting me see my Girls and every time i took her to court for access she keep saying bad stuff about me to the judge, ( things i am doing to the kids). Its all lies and has been proved lies after the judge had me and the girls interviewed. The last time we were there the judge finally ignored her and granted me access and i aggreed with my ex i would see the girls the following day. I waited the next day for her to bring them around and when it got really late i rang her and she told me she had packed up the kids and moved to the uk. I visited them several times but i got made redundant 2 years ago and she wont lets me see them now. i have no contact with them and desperate to see them. I was always very close to my Girls and miss them awful. Have i any law to access them when they live in the uk. Any advice would be great as i cant afford to visit solicitors at the moment.

Klingon Hamlet

Richyd wrote: »

I am gettin desperate now. I am a seperated man who has 2 daughters with my ex wife. She has never been happy letting me see my Girls and every time i took her to court for access she keep saying bad stuff about me to the judge, ( things i am doing to the kids). Its all lies and has been proved lies after the judge had me and the girls interviewed. The last time we were there the judge finally ignored her and granted me access and i aggreed with my ex i would see the girls the following day. I waited the next day for her to bring them around and when it got really late i rang her and she told me she had packed up the kids and moved to the uk. I visited them several times but i got made redundant 2 years ago and she wont lets me see them now. i have no contact with them and desperate to see them. I was always very close to my Girls and miss them awful. Have i any law to access them when they live in the uk. Any advice would be great as i cant afford to visit solicitors at the moment.

1. If you cannot afford solicitors, you can get legal aid, goto flac.ie
2. You had an access order in place, so when your ex ran off with your kids, she breached access, which is treated very seriously.

Richyd

Yea i know she breached the order but its hard to do anything about it when she lives in the uk. I have an appointment with legal aid but the last time i used them for access i got the thickest solicitor in the country who only wanted to send letter after letter and told me that Fathers have little or no rights.

Klingon Hamlet

Richyd wrote: »

Yea i know she breached the order but its hard to do anything about it when she lives in the uk. I have an appointment with legal aid but the last time i used them for access i got the thickest solicitor in the country who only wanted to send letter after letter and told me that Fathers have little or no rights.

You can still send a summons for breach of access to her address in UK.

rolly1

I'm sorry to hear this Richyd. I would agree with Klingon re the summons for breach of access.

"I waited the next day for her to bring them around and when it got really late i rang her and she told me she had packed up the kids and moved to the uk"

Unfortunately you should have gone about child abduction proceedings 2 years ago rather than accepting your ex wife leaving the country with the kids without your consent. I know this is no good to you now but any other person reading this in a similar situation would be well advised to immediately get in contact with the Central Authority as soon as something like this occurs.

For others who may be worried their children might be abducted this abduction prevention pack is essential reading





Central Authority
Department of Justice and Law Reform
Bishop’s Square
Redmond’s Hill
Dublin 2
Phone: + 353 1 479-0200
Fax: + 353 1 479-0201
E-mail: child_abduct_inbox@justice.ie

Richyd

I did go about it but the foolish solicitor told me i had no law to get as she was trying to make a better life for herself in the uk and was in her rights to move where she wanted.

amiable

rolly1 wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear this Richyd. I would agree with Klingon re the summons for breach of access.

"I waited the next day for her to bring them around and when it got really late i rang her and she told me she had packed up the kids and moved to the uk"

Unfortunately you should have gone about child abduction proceedings 2 years ago rather than accepting your ex wife leaving the country with the kids without your consent. I know this is no good to you now but any other person reading this in a similar situation would be well advised to immediately get in contact with the Central Authority as soon as something like this occurs.

For others who may be worried their children might be abducted this abduction prevention pack is essential reading





Central Authority
Department of Justice and Law Reform
Bishop’s Square
Redmond’s Hill
Dublin 2
Phone: + 353 1 479-0200
Fax: + 353 1 479-0201
E-mail: child_abduct_inbox@justice.ie

Without knowing the full facts you are calling it child abduction. Fair play

rolly1

Richyd wrote: »

I did go about it but the foolish solicitor told me i had no law to get as she was trying to make a better life for herself in the uk and was in her rights to move where she wanted.

Sorry to hear that, a lesson for parents out there; get a second opinion if you are at all in doubt.Solicitors, along with their advice, are very much fallible. Better still, in addition to getting legal advice, talk to any of the established parents groups (USPI,USFI,Parental Equality,AMEN) to get their view as well.

Without knowing the full facts you are calling it child abduction. Fair play

Enough facts were there to establish child abduction:

1. Richyd was married to the woman and was therefore legal guardian of his children.

2. Richyd had just obtained legal access to his children through the court, which was to take place the following day. That following day the mother abducted the kids to England.

3. Yes it was child abduction because Richyd did not give his consent for the removal of his children to England.

Your sniping comment does not help anybody.

amiable

rolly1 wrote: »

Sorry to hear that, a lesson for parents out there; get a second opinion if you are at all in doubt.Solicitors, along with their advice, are very much fallible. Better still, in addition to getting legal advice, talk to any of the established parents groups (USPI,USFI,Parental Equality,AMEN) to get their view as well.



Enough facts were there to establish child abduction:

1. Richyd was married to the woman and was therefore legal guardian of his children.

2. Richyd had just obtained legal access to his children through the court, which was to take place the following day. That following day the mother abducted the kids to England.

3. Yes it was child abduction because Richyd did not give his consent for the removal of his children to England.

Your sniping comment does not help anybody.

Full facts are needed. It wasn't a sniping comment it was a factual comment.

rolly1

Would you care to specify exactly what more "full facts" are needed?

Nevyn

If you have a problem with a post report it, do not get snotty with other posters.
Ths forum is one which is supportive of parents in many different types of circumstances
and civil posting is expected.

Richyd

People people dont get nasty now. I appreciate all the comments posted and any other facts that you may feel relivant i will post, just ask and i will answer.

amiable

Richyd wrote: »

People people dont get nasty now. I appreciate all the comments posted and any other facts that you may feel relivant i will post, just ask and i will answer.

Did your ex give you a reason why she went to the UK?

Nevyn

amiable if a parent comes here looking for support and information we try to help them and not cross examine them, we accept in good faith what they share with us about their difficult situation. If you have any concerns about a thread or poster contact the mods, do not brow beat a poster who is looking for help and support.

CrazyRabbit

I had thought it was illegal for children to be taken out of the country without the consent of both parents? And I thought this was European law.

If so, you would have legal avenues in the UK, not just in Ireland.

Richyd

she met an 18yo guy living in ireland and she moved with him to his home town in uk. She had 2 kids when we met and there father was bothering her she said. she was just a nightmare to be with. I am very happy i dont have to put up with her again now she is living there but i miss my girls and want nothing more than to see them grow and be part of there life. I got an new interview today with the local legal aid to finalise my Divorce and i will reapply for access to the courts knowing she is now set up in the uk. Not sure if things wil go my way or not. Fathers get the rough end of the stick in court in my experience.

rolly1

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I had thought it was illegal for children to be taken out of the country without the consent of both parents? And I thought this was European law.

If so, you would have legal avenues in the UK, not just in Ireland.

Consent of both parents or a court order overriding consent.

Unfortunately after the kids have lived in England for so long the chances of securing their return to Ireland under abduction law greatly decreases.

Richyd, it may still be worth running it by a solicitor who knows the law in this area, but as far as I know the time factor is a major element.

amiable

Thaedydal wrote: »

amiable if a parent comes here looking for support and information we try to help them and not cross examine them, we accept in good faith what they share with us about their difficult situation. If you have any concerns about a thread or poster contact the mods, do not brow beat a poster who is looking for help and support.

I was not brow beating i asked a sincere question. The Op said feel free to ask any other question to get the facts. So i asked what i thought was a relevant question so we could understand the situation better.

amiable

Richyd wrote: »

she met an 18yo guy living in ireland and she moved with him to his home town in uk. She had 2 kids when we met and there father was bothering her she said. she was just a nightmare to be with. I am very happy i dont have to put up with her again now she is living there but i miss my girls and want nothing more than to see them grow and be part of there life. I got an new interview today with the local legal aid to finalise my Divorce and i will reapply for access to the courts knowing she is now set up in the uk. Not sure if things wil go my way or not. Fathers get the rough end of the stick in court in my experience.

I personally think both fathers and mothers can get rough end of the stick but you seem to be getting it here.
Its easy for me to say sitting here but keep the chin up. You don't deserve whats happened. Try to do what you can for your kids and hopefully something better will happen for you and your kids

metrovelvet

Richyd wrote: »

she met an 18yo guy living in ireland and she moved with him to his home town in uk. She had 2 kids when we met and there father was bothering her she said. she was just a nightmare to be with. I am very happy i dont have to put up with her again now she is living there but i miss my girls and want nothing more than to see them grow and be part of there life. I got an new interview today with the local legal aid to finalise my Divorce and i will reapply for access to the courts knowing she is now set up in the uk. Not sure if things wil go my way or not. Fathers get the rough end of the stick in court in my experience.

Wait.... so these two kids are not your kids? Im confused..."

Cavehill Red

amiable wrote: »

Without knowing the full facts you are calling it child abduction. Fair play

If the presented facts are true - court ordered access in Ireland has been circumvented by the Mother moving the children without notice out of the country - then that is abduction.

In the OP's position, he needs legal advice fast.

Richyd

She had two children when we met. we got married then we had my 2 girls and then we seperated. how she has shacked up with some young fella and has a kid with him. So she has 5 kids two are mine.

Cavehill Red

You need to decide what you want and how much you want it, OP.

Courts everywhere are loathe enough to remove children from a mother, even less so to split up a family.

If the mother or any of the kids have UK citizenship, you're in an even worse position of being a foreign parent petitioning.

You may have to resign yourself to occasional access in Britain, and seek to negotiate having your children visit you in Ireland if you can negotiate that with the mother.

It's usually preferable to come to an agreement between parents, as court orders are easily ignored, as you have found.

Best of luck with whatever you do. If you do decide to go legal, I would recommend Hilary Coveney as an expert in the area of cross-border custodial issues.

Richyd

The only one with uk citizenship is me as i was born in the uk. None of my girls or my ex were born in the uk. all were born in Ireland. I have a meeting on 6th jan with a solicitor and will see what i am entitled to or not entitled to as i would guess. Aint getting my hopes up of seeing them again for a while.

Das Kitty

Richyd wrote: »

The only one with uk citizenship is me as i was born in the uk. None of my girls or my ex were born in the uk. all were born in Ireland. I have a meeting on 6th jan with a solicitor and will see what i am entitled to or not entitled to as i would guess. Aint getting my hopes up of seeing them again for a while.

Wishing you and your girls the best of luck Richy.

Fittle

'The last time we were there the judge finally ignored her and granted me access and i aggreed with my ex i would see the girls the following day. I waited the next day for her to bring them around and when it got really late i rang her and she told me she had packed up the kids and moved to the uk.'

Wait, so within ONE day, she packed up five kids and moved them to the uk to live with an 18yr old?

Im very confused.

She wouldn't let you see the kids because you were made redundant?

Is she working over there? How is she supporting herself and her five kids if he's only 18?

Can you support the two children that are yours, if you get full custody OP - like what are your plans for them, if you get them returned to Irl?

Richyd

Basically yea she packed up the 5 kids and hauled them in a small car to the uk. She had a great house in Ireland which i paid to get to decorated for her and the kids including furnishings and kitchen equipment etc. She moved over to the uk with her new guy and lived off his mother for a few months till she got on her feet. Im not broke and have a house and am well able to care for my girls if they were to live with me, cant see that happening though. Im not wanted them to live with me i only want what any father wants and that to be able to see them and spend time with them during holidays. I dont think im asking for much wanting to watch them grow and for them to have there real father around. I also got her a car so the kids could get to school and to differant places. When she moved there i got left with the HP payments for the car and with massive credit union debt for doing the house. i dont mind that too much if i was able to see the girls.

Fittle

So what do you hope to achieve here OP - you obviously don't want custody of the kids as you say you want them for holidays etc?

Do you want her to move back here - I don't think that can be achieved as she is now resident in the Uk and living with the dad of her 5th child, who could bring her to court over there to insist that she stays there, with his child.

How old are your kids OP? Is there any chance she'd allow them to fly over (assisted) for holidays etc?

Klingon Hamlet

Here's a solution OP:

2 of her kids are also yours, and you live in Ireland.

2 of her kids' father aso lives in Ireland.

1 of her kids' father used to live in Ireland.

She and her kids are Irish born and reared.

Go to court, get your kids back, let the 18 year old be a man instead of running off with your children.

And don't limit yourself to holidays. You might as well be some visiting uncle or family friend. You're their father. They deserve to be reared by both their parents, whether separated or together.

Get them back OP.

LordSutch

Different laws for different parts of the UK as far as I'm aware, are we talking England here?

Richyd

Yea she lives in england. As much as i would love them to live with me i cant see any judge granting that. Iv been over to visit them a few times since they moved over but the lst time was neasr 2 years ago. She told me i could visit them last xmas and i booked ferry and hotel for myself and partner and 4yo son. The day before we were meant to leave she text me and said not to bother that things were best left as they were and she wouldnt let me see them if i came over. Been unemployed i lost 400 euro which was non refundable. That is just the type of person i am dealing with. She uses the kids as a way to hurt me. And no i dont want her back living in ireland. I know it would be easier for me to see the kids but she made my life unbearable when she was here and i cant put up with her here again. Thanks for all the advice as well people. it really helps.

Fittle

Richyd wrote: »

She moved over to the uk with her new guy and lived off his mother for a few months till she got on her feet.
Im not wanted them to live with me i only want what any father wants and that to be able to see them and spend time with them during holidays. I dont think im asking for much wanting to watch them grow and for them to have there real father around. .

So this 18yr olds mother financially supported a strange woman, and her 5 kids????

From what I've read so far OP, this is all about everything you have done for her. The car you bought, the house you decorated, her other children you raised etc etc. You state above, that you only want 'what any father wants, and that is to be able to see them and spend time with during the holidays'.

Firstly, that is a very sweeping, and very incorrect statement to make. No where are you saying that you would like to raise your children, which I assume, IS what any father wants.

You now have a partner who has a 4yr old, and you are no doubt, helping her raise that child.

All the while, your two kids are in the uk, being raised by a person you have described as a horrible, horrible person and her 18yr old boyfriend.

Time to stop playing the victim OP. If you really want to be a father to these kids, as opposed to just wanting to rant about fathers rights, then get yourself on a plane and at the very least, make an attempt to visit them. Send them a christmas card. Open a bank account for them, so that when they are older, you can at least prove to them that you fought for them.

K-9

Fittle wrote: »

So this 18yr olds mother financially supported a strange woman, and her 5 kids????

From what I've read so far OP, this is all about everything you have done for her. The car you bought, the house you decorated, her other children you raised etc etc. You state above, that you only want 'what any father wants, and that is to be able to see them and spend time with during the holidays'.

Firstly, that is a very sweeping, and very incorrect statement to make. No where are you saying that you would like to raise your children, which I assume, IS what any father wants.

You now have a partner who has a 4yr old, and you are no doubt, helping her raise that child.

All the while, your two kids are in the uk, being raised by a person you have described as a horrible, horrible person and her 18yr old boyfriend.

Time to stop playing the victim OP. If you really want to be a father to these kids, as opposed to just wanting to rant about fathers rights, then get yourself on a plane and at the very least, make an attempt to visit them. Send them a christmas card. Open a bank account for them, so that when they are older, you can at least prove to them that you fought for them.

Think you are incorrect there on the 18 year old Fittle, that was the first father, before the OP. It's hard to keep track though.

I'm sure he would love to raise his children but it's unlikely a court would given the length of time that has elapsed, plus it mightn't be fair on them if they are there 2 years and are being reasonably looked after.

K-9

Apologies, reading back, you are right.

Fittle

K-9 wrote: »

I'm sure he would love to raise his children but it's unlikely a court would given the length of time that has elapsed, plus it mightn't be fair on them if they are there 2 years and are being reasonably looked after.

Actually, he hasn't said he wants to raise his kids at all. he's said he'd like to see them on holidays and be a part of their life. That's about it.

While I'm all for fathers rights, and I agree that the legal system in this country for unmarried fathers is appalling, and I agree that a judge would not give him full custody at this point, it seems he's moved on anyway, and all but given up on seeing his kids again.

Richyd

ok for starters my present partner (of near 8 years) and i have a 4yo boy together. I am not gonna fool myself by thinking i can get full custody. i am trying to be realistic and think i can only get access to them on holidays. I do have a bank account for both of them and lodge as much as i can afford into it. As for gettin on a plane and seein them well in a heartbeat i would but im afraid you have no idea what type of woman we are dealing with. I have to do everything she says cause if i dont she just closes her door to me. Believe me i have tried. 2 years ago i decided not to live by her rules anymore and a judge agreed and she left for the uk. I would do anything for my kids but as you know its not easy when i have to step carefully around her. she has said some horrible stuff about me and reported me for some awful stuff. iv spend days in custody over her false stories.

Richyd

child 1: girls father living in ireland
child 2: boy same father as child 1
child 3: my daughter
child 4: my daughter
child 5: 18yo irish guy now living with my ex in the uk.
He aint 18 anymore, he was when they met 4 years ago approx.

Nevyn

Richyd I think you should try for custody that is if your partner would be open to it.

Richyd

i would love nothing more than full custody of my girls, but i have to be realistic. Rite now i would give my right arm just to see them. If my ex was more aproachable things would be better but she is just the type that loves messing me about and im not having it anymore.

K-9

Fittle wrote: »

Actually, he hasn't said he wants to raise his kids at all. he's said he'd like to see them on holidays and be a part of their life. That's about it.

While I'm all for fathers rights, and I agree that the legal system in this country for unmarried fathers is appalling, and I agree that a judge would not give him full custody at this point, it seems he's moved on anyway, and all but given up on seeing his kids again.

Well it is difficult circumstances. He has a child here, they are in the UK, the new fella has a child there too, court case may have to be in the UK, ex has plainly stated she doesn't want them to see them, ex has just upped and left before and chances are she'll do it again if he makes things awkward, sounds like he is dealing with a narcissistic person etc.

rolly1

Richyd wrote: »

child 1: girls father living in ireland
child 2: boy same father as child 1
child 3: my daughter
child 4: my daughter
child 5: 18yo irish guy now living with my ex in the uk.
He aint 18 anymore, he was when they met 4 years ago approx.

Let's maybe exclude child 5 ;-)

So all citizens involved are irish citizens.
The two fathers of the 4 children are living in Ireland. Is the Irish father involved with his kids?
If so, 2 applications under the Hague Convention to get all the kids back to Ireland might be better than one.

I seriously think you should consider this avenue. However hard it is to maintain access in Ireland, it goes to a whole new level of difficulty doing so from Ireland to England with an implacably hostile parent.

January

rolly1 wrote: »

Let's maybe exclude child 5 ;-)

So all citizens involved are irish citizens.
The two fathers of the 4 children are living in Ireland. Is the Irish father involved with his kids?
If so, 2 applications under the Hague Convention to get all the kids back to Ireland might be better than one.

I seriously think you should consider this avenue. However hard it is to maintain access in Ireland, it goes to a whole new level of difficulty doing so from Ireland to England with an implacably hostile parent.

Child five is the child of the 22 (then 18) year old and a UK citizen.

Richyd

Child 5 was also born in ireland and the childs father is irish but now lives in the uk where he used to live before he met my ex. Im so sorry this is so confusing. All 5 kids are irish citizens and all 5 kids parents are irish citizans. Out of all the kids and all the parent i am the only one that was born in the uk. Wow reading back over all this i can understand how many of you would be totally confused by this. I have never had any contact with the father of child 1 and 2. No idea where he is or who he is.

rolly1

My mistake on child 5, my apologies, I thought you were being humorous in calling the 18 year old boyfriend a child.

I still think it is worth getting proper legal advice on the prospects of seeking your daughter's return to Ireland, even if it just to rule it out as much as anything else. I know I would work this angle first as there is a time related factor to this. Access can be an ongoing legal issue which you will need to work on failing this, but the time requirements just from a court point of view are not as important for access.

Again its worth contacting one of the support groups on this as they have had many people down the years who have been in situations something similar to yourself. Even if they can't help from a legal viewpoint they offer good moral support, especially at this time of year.

Good luck

http://www.uspi.ie/
087-9821236

http://www.fathers.ie/
lo-call 1890 55 44 33


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]USFI
1a Main Road
Tallaght
D24

01 451 4200/086 887 9444

[/FONT]

Billiejo

Richyd wrote: »

I am gettin desperate now. I am a seperated man who has 2 daughters with my ex wife. She has never been happy letting me see my Girls and every time i took her to court for access she keep saying bad stuff about me to the judge, ( things i am doing to the kids). Its all lies and has been proved lies after the judge had me and the girls interviewed. The last time we were there the judge finally ignored her and granted me access and i aggreed with my ex i would see the girls the following day. I waited the next day for her to bring them around and when it got really late i rang her and she told me she had packed up the kids and moved to the uk. I visited them several times but i got made redundant 2 years ago and she wont lets me see them now. i have no contact with them and desperate to see them. I was always very close to my Girls and miss them awful. Have i any law to access them when they live in the uk. Any advice would be great as i cant afford to visit solicitors at the moment.

From the UK & C Protection field.
May not work but worth a try.

Write to Childrens Services Manager @ Social Services Department in town where family live. Once you write (sign on receipt) they will have to investigate. Enclose copy of Judges comments and anything else legal which gives you access.

If the children are denied access to a loving father whom they are prevented from seeing = Emotional abuse and taken very seriously in the UK.

In the course of investigating SW's will speak to children's teachers & School nurse, because if what you say is true they may be exhibiting behaviours (loss/rejection) which in turn affects their behaviour at school.