Loosing control

teednab-el

I have to disagree with some tips and advice given when you start sliding on black ice. I think its easier said than done. I was turning right off a major road onto a side road and I was only doing 20MPH and my car slided across the road. I didnt press the brakes but I did steer in the direction the car was going and it only made matters worse. Then I tapped the brakes in severe panic for a second and left go again to keep the wheels moving but no effect, I couldnt steer or stop when I got into the slide in the first place. The car kept sliding and I hit my Audi A4 right off the ditch and the front lefthand side is in sh**t. It may cost too much to fix. Dont know what to do with it.

mickdw

If you arrive at your junction going too fast (20MPH can be far too fast) for the conditions, and if the conditions are that of sheet ice, it wont matter what you do, you will most likely go straight to the scene of the accident.

MagicMarker

There is no magic way of doing it. There are some ways better than others, but sometimes you're fúcked either way.

I would say 20mph would be too fast in a lot of cases, on some of the roads I've driven on recently I'd would slow right down to a snail's pace when making a turn.

Anan1

It all depends on the surface - if there's no grip at all then it doesn't make any difference what you do. Sorry to hear, and glad you're ok.

Stheno

I think it's the panic that is the worst tbh, I had it a couple of weeks back turning onto a side road at about 25kph, car hit a patch of black ice and slid.

It took all of my concentration not to hit the brakes and to let the car slide, keep the steering wheel straight and thankfully it stopped after a short distance.

Three cars behind me all had the same experience, one had a far worse slide/skid than everyone else and went across the road completely.

Same again a couple of years ago, hitting black ice on a bad country road, let the car slide and ended up a couple of inches from an oil tanker parked outside a gate

challengemaster

If you're trying to take a turn at 20mph in these conditions I'd hate to see how you'd take one in normal conditions

teednab-el

mickdw wrote: »

If you arrive at your junction going too fast (20MPH can be far too fast) for the conditions, and if the conditions are that of sheet ice, it wont matter what you do, you will most likely go straight to the scene of the accident.

True even at 20MPH it can go so wrong as I found out and paid the price.

teednab-el

challengemaster wrote: »

If you're trying to take a turn at 20mph in these conditions I'd hate to see how you'd take one in normal conditions

I dont speed at all if thats what you mean?, I didnt see the black ice, The car slided before I knew it.

Stheno

teednab-el wrote: »

I dont speed at all if thats what you mean?, I didnt see the black ice, The car slided before I knew it.

I was the same a few weeks ago, coming off the N1 onto a side road, soon as I turned I hit the ice

peasant

Stheno wrote: »

I was the same a few weeks ago, coming off the N1 onto a side road, soon as I turned I hit the ice

teednab-el wrote: »

I dont speed at all if thats what you mean?, I didnt see the black ice, The car slided before I knew it.

Under the current conditions you simply have to assume that there will be ice / snow / slush once you turn off a good main road. Side roads, off-ramps, entrances ...they were just put there to catch you out

Stheno

peasant wrote: »

Under the current conditions you simply have to assume that there will be ice / snow / slush once you turn off a good main road. Side roads, off-ramps, entrances ...they were just put there to catch you out

True Genuinely didn't expect it as it was one of the main roads into Swords off the N1.

Good learning experience though

teednab-el

Stheno wrote: »

True Genuinely didn't expect it as it was one of the main roads into Swords off the N1.

Good learning experience though

I learned too but at a price

Stheno

teednab-el wrote: »

I learned too but at a price

Have you gotten a quote for the damage?

teednab-el

Stheno wrote: »

Have you gotten a quote for the damage?

No I will have to ring the garage in the morning.

Stheno

teednab-el wrote: »

No I will have to ring the garage in the morning.

Is it all damage to the bodywork? Might be worth posting up a few pictures if it is, the lads here can recommend places to contact and they are very good about giving info (the lads that is)

My sister used run a bodyshop and they got referrals all the time from garages who didn't want to/didn't specialise in the work so it might be helpful.

Here's hoping it's not terribly bad news

battries not included

teednab-el wrote: »

No I will have to ring the garage in the morning.

What year is the Car?

I may be interested if you decide to sell/ if the engine is not damaged?

glad you ok though

Drove on fairly bad conditions earlier

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69622558#post69622558

I reckon in all honesty I didn't hit 10mph at any stage of the evening. Slow and steady and all that. The auto with snow button is a God send, she'll crawl away up an icey hill at a tad over idle with only a mere lean of a foot on the throttle. The manual cars me and the buddy moved off the hill were a disaster in comparison. They were all little petrol engined yokes, diesel torque and 2nd gear would have been handy in them. As a few other people have mentioned above 20mph is too fast, going around corners I was doing less than 5mph and these are on urban routes that I know like the back of my hand. The guy with me reckons the lad in the 3 series drives a rubbish truck for the corporation for a living :eek:, it was one of the worst levels of driver control I have ever seen, if he wasn't able to shoot off the main road up the little road I (nor he) don't have a clue where he would have ended up.

I have budget summer tyres on the car too, 225 45 18s, not ideal but if you slow down they are fine.

battries not included

my dad always advised me to go into high gear, then drop down gears and use clutch and tap brakes

accident free for last 5 years

Buford T Justice

battries not included wrote: »

my dad always advised me to go into high gear, then drop down gears and use clutch and tap brakes

accident free for last 5 years

Yeah, If you can stay in the lower gears when you are driving and keep the rev's up. If you need to slow down, the revs will be reducing when you let your foot off the throttle and will slow you down. Slowing through the gears is always preferable in this weather as it prevents the wheels from locking up

Anan1

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Slowing through the gears is always preferable in this weather as it prevents the wheels from locking up

Not so, most cars have ABS and it's quite possible to lock up the wheels under engine braking. In a RWD car it's actually a lot more likely for a given level of retardation that engine braking will lock up the wheels, as only the rear wheels are being slowed - it's much the same principle as using the handbrake to stop.

Alanstrainor

Anan1 wrote: »

Not so, most cars have ABS and it's quite possible to lock up the wheels under engine braking. In a RWD car it's actually a lot more likely for a given level of retardation that engine braking will lock up the wheels, as only the rear wheels are being slowed - it's much the same principle as using the handbrake to stop.

I found this to be the case in my front wheel drive too. On particularly bad stretches, coming to a stop and engaging first would cause the fronts to lose traction completely for a few feet.

Fingers McGee

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Yeah, If you can stay in the lower gears when you are driving and keep the rev's up. If you need to slow down, the revs will be reducing when you let your foot off the throttle and will slow you down. Slowing through the gears is always preferable in this weather as it prevents the wheels from locking up

Lower gears with revs up on ice means wheel spin

Calebmcd

I was driving through Balinrobe last night. Left Kilcock[kildare] at 6pm.
I was heading to Castlebar.

Just as you leave the town and turn left of the one way back onto the 2 way.
I saw a truck stopped on the crossroad.
The car in front of me just drove inside him so i followed.

I noticed 3 cars trying to get up the hill but it was completely iced over.
I was going 8 kph around the corner.
The back of my car started sliding to the other side of the road. Towards the cars trying to go up the hill. Also a man was in the middle of the road trying to help them up.

I tried everything, turning in the same direction but that made the car go sideways. So i countered and braked, i got a small bit of control but was really close to hitting. I could see i could make it but the guy was still on the road, so i had to beep at him to stop me hitting him. But he didn't move.
I pulled the handbrake as a last resort, making my car turn more and just missing him.

With me spinning down the road finally my alloy stopping me on the curb.

I've noticed a damaged alloy.
And my left front tire is now at the marker. When i left all were fine.
Luckily i didn't hit anybody else.

But i found this was all down to MAYO.

I drove through many counties with the same snow fall and colder temperatures but why they never gritted that hill is beyond me.

How my left tire wore down so much i don't know.
But they are tires designed to stop hydroplaning not Snow!

So now as a person with out a job, i'm pretty much screwed with the amount of bills i already have this month!:(

JerCotter7

RoverJames wrote: »

Drove on fairly bad conditions earlier

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69622558#post69622558

I reckon in all honesty I didn't hit 10mph at any stage of the evening. Slow and steady and all that. The auto with snow button is a God send, she'll crawl away up an icey hill at a tad over idle with only a mere lean of a foot on the throttle. The manual cars me and the buddy moved off the hill were a disaster in comparison. They were all little petrol engined yokes, diesel torque and 2nd gear would have been handy in them. As a few other people have mentioned above 20mph is too fast, going around corners I was doing less than 5mph and these are on urban routes that I know like the back of my hand. The guy with me reckons the lad in the 3 series drives a rubbish truck for the corporation for a living :eek:, it was one of the worst levels of driver control I have ever seen, if he wasn't able to shoot off the main road up the little road I (nor he) don't have a clue where he would have ended up.

I have budget summer tyres on the car too, 225 45 18s, not ideal but if you slow down they are fine.

Can't be too bad if he had enough control to get off the main road when the road was as bad as you say it was.

And I personally don't think summer tyres are very fine in ice. That being said I still have them Really need to get a set of winter tyres for next year.

Chopper40

Stheno wrote: »

I was the same a few weeks ago, coming off the N1 onto a side road, soon as I turned I hit the ice

I think its fairly obvious that you do speed!!

galwaytt

...I had a few eye-opener's this week too.....

Thursday morning the (school-)bus driver called to everyone's door early to advise that.........he couldn't make it, due to the roads. He then got in his car and went on to the next house......:P........

So, out with the 968. Coming over a slight hill, just above tickover, in automatic, there she was........gone! - that tiny bit of weight transfer as we went over the brow......made it a big fat sled. Yikes. Took me 20 minutes to cover about 6kms.........been a while since I got such a fright. Driver-induced muppetry I'm not a stranger to, but this, when you have zero control......well.......you wonder about NCB, and the price of new front wing's........the weirdest stuff, really. Actually, I'm more worried about hitting/being hit by other traffic, than anythig affecting my car alone.........

Friday a.m. then, brought events 2 and 2.5. I had to drive cross country on the R347 from Athenry to Tuam, in Caddy Van...with a builder's trailer.......OMFG is all I could think .....downhill on one section, I got pushed by the trailer into a bend.......hmmmm........pucker moment, really.......
On the way back, got about 90% up the hill here: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Acupuncture&sll=53.388051,-8.779728&sspn=0.001587,0.003428&ie=UTF8&rq=1&ev=zi&radius=0.08&split=1&hq=Acupuncture&hnear=&ll=53.388076,-8.780667&spn=0.001587,0.003428&z=18 (coming from R to L, just before the fork takes off to the right.....) and the Caddy just couldn't do it anymore.....and it slid gracefully back a small bit, and then against the bank. The lady in the Avensis behind just slid back........and the Yaris behind her.......well it didn't get around the first bend at all.....

anyhoo, I digress. I got out, and not an implement is sight, but some poor soul had given up a wheel arch liner or something, and I used is as spade to dig gravel from the margins and get going after about 15 minutes......and from there back to Athenry, it was a case of not losing inertia on the hills. I have to say, the ESP as fitted did a very good job- in fact, without it, I'd never have made it back at all. So, it's certainly something that never figured on my shopping list for a car before.

I've been goosing around in the SO's 9-3 as well, and been provoking the traction control in it, to see how/where it works, and it's certainly a good tool. I would say, though, that like all tools, it does need "training", to use effectively. When you realise what it can/cannot do, it's a handy thing to have in the arsenal.

Now, ESP + AWD + skinny winter tyres.........that I'd like to try

Chopper40

@Galwaytt, Okay fair enough, you're on drugs, but i hope its only when not driving

Alanstrainor

Chopper40 wrote: »

@Galwaytt, Okay fair enough, you're on drugs, but i hope its only when not driving

If you have nothing worth while to post. Don't post at all. This isn't after hours.

Cuddlesworth

Chopper40 wrote: »

@Galwaytt, Okay fair enough, you're on drugs, but i hope its only when not driving

The "Harley's are overpriced pieces of crap" line works better.

JerCotter7

JerCotter7 wrote: »

Can't be too bad if he had enough control to get off the main road when the road was as bad as you say it was.

Well, I posted that in the Cork City forum (where readers would have local knowledge), the road he "turned" into is a decent sized road and the throat of it is about 30 foot wide, also it's uphill. If you reckon travelling down a hill with your front wheels on full steering lock while standing on the brake is good control fair enough.

JerCotter7

RoverJames wrote: »

Well, I posted that in the Cork City forum (where readers would have local knowledge), the road he "turned" into is a decent sized road and the throat of it is about 30 foot wide, also it's uphill. If you reckon travelling down a hill with your front wheels on full steering lock while standing on the brake is good control fair enough.

Better control than being in a car that hits ice and the driver covers their eyes with their hands. That's scary.