"Musicians" looking to join WORKING covers bands

spankadamonkee

heres my tuppence worth. i hate these ads. why? because i think its a right cheek for someone to want to fall into making money straight away when they dont deserve it. in my opinion , anyone that wants to join a band should be willing to learn off the bands set the way they play it before any gigs are played. i firmly believe it should not be a case of " ah , ill be grand sure. ill pick it up as i go along". thats bull**** . anyone else have an opinion?

PMI

There will always be guys like that, and bands that will allow it.... but those bands will NEVER make the real money !

Alot of people want a quick buck and are no longer into working towards the bigger picture.

Sign of the times

ham_n_mustard

spankadamonkee wrote: »

because i think its a right cheek for someone to want to fall into making money straight away when they dont deserve it.

Why don't they deserve it? In my opinion, anybody who spends nearly 20 years (in my own case) learning their trade, then walks into a gig, knows their stuff and performs it properly deserves to be paid. Simples.

By the way, i agree with you on the whole breezing in and winging it thing. Some people think that they deserve money just for showing up.

dubbeat

spankadamonkee wrote: »

heres my tuppence worth. i hate these ads. why? because i think its a right cheek for someone to want to fall into making money straight away when they dont deserve it. in my opinion , anyone that wants to join a band should be willing to learn off the bands set the way they play it before any gigs are played. i firmly believe it should not be a case of " ah , ill be grand sure. ill pick it up as i go along". thats bull**** . anyone else have an opinion?

Way to suck the fun out of playing music

all the stars

spankadamonkee wrote: »

heres my tuppence worth. i hate these ads. why? because i think its a right cheek for someone to want to fall into making money straight away when they dont deserve it. in my opinion , anyone that wants to join a band should be willing to learn off the bands set the way they play it before any gigs are played. i firmly believe it should not be a case of " ah , ill be grand sure. ill pick it up as i go along". thats bull**** . anyone else have an opinion?

Weel, theres 2 side. I was asked to join a working band. who wouldn't give me the set list. (had maybe 150 song-listed but wouldn't give me the 'usual' tunes or which ones would definately need to learn.)Who didn't rehearse with newcomers.
Who said i'd pick it up as i went. they put me in front of the drummer, only person with no 'in ear monitor' and wondered why i wasn't able to gel properly....
Some times i had no clue what song they were actually doing..and they are well established. I had made it super clear i wanted to learn the stuff, their versions, but they hadn't any interest in doing their bit. :cool:

spankadamonkee

all the stars wrote: »

Weel, theres 2 side. I was asked to join a working band. who wouldn't give me the set list. (had maybe 150 song-listed but wouldn't give me the 'usual' tunes or which ones would definately need to learn.)Who didn't rehearse with newcomers.
Who said i'd pick it up as i went. they put me in front of the drummer, only person with no 'in ear monitor' and wondered why i wasn't able to gel properly....
Some times i had no clue what song they were actually doing..and they are well established. I had made it super clear i wanted to learn the stuff, their versions, but they hadn't any interest in doing their bit. :cool:

well imo they didnt treat you too fairly. its a joke tbh.

spankadamonkee

ham_n_mustard wrote: »

Why don't they deserve it? In my opinion, anybody who spends nearly 20 years (in my own case) learning their trade, then walks into a gig, knows their stuff and performs it properly

well to be fair i think u should be learning that bands versions of the songs.

Rigsby

spankadamonkee wrote: »

i firmly believe it should not be a case of " ah , ill be grand sure. ill pick it up as i go along".

Personally, I would not like to think that I was paying in to see a band, where one or more of the members were winging it in this way. No doubt that it happens though. It is not the fault of the potential new band member IMO, but that of the band's, for not insisting that he learn the material to a high enough standard before starting to gig. The problem is, there are often gigs lined up (which means money ) and a band dont want to lose out, while someone learns the material.

I also acknowledge "all the stars" slant on the debate.

ham_n_mustard

spankadamonkee wrote: »

well to be fair i think u should be learning that bands versions of the songs.

i agree 100%. if a band were to play something like a reggae version of "smoke on the water", then ya, you need to learn that! on the other hand, if a band wants to play covers note for note like the orginals, then i dont really see the need for not jumping straight into gigs provided 1) you know the songs inside out (particularly your own part) and 2) you're technically good enough to play that part without fúckups or getting lost.

spankadamonkee

ham_n_mustard wrote: »

i agree 100%. if a band were to play something like a reggae version of "smoke on the water", then ya, you need to learn that! on the other hand, if a band wants to play covers note for note like the orginals, then i dont really see the need for not jumping straight into gigs provided 1) you know the songs inside out (particularly your own part) and 2) you're technically good enough to play that part without fúckups or getting lost.

agreed

Quatre Mains

Everyone is different I guess, but I never turned up for an audition/first jam without making a good stab at the material, covers or originals. I thought everyone did that till I set up my own band lol, now i have lads show up without listening to the songs (which are all on myspace), then saying 'dont bother showing me how to play it, i'll do it my own way' when i've spent ages writing them

Owen

Not rocket science, I've left my working covers band I've only a few gigs left, so no doubt someone'll want to slot in, and the lads will want someone who can be up and running quickly. Because they do only a certain type of gig, it'll be no big deal to find someone who can play 85% of the set straight away, and have to learn the other 15%.

I've no issue falling in with other bands if I need to either. I'm playing music since I was 3, so if I haven't got the hang of how to play a song based on hearing it on the radio by now, I never will. I'd always try to get a band's set first, and hammer through it identifying any weak bits, but I'd be confident enough that if I got a call tomorrow from a band really stuck for a player, I could fall in unless their set was really obscure, or they were doing their own versions/starts/stops of everything.

dhmusic

spankadamonkee wrote: »

heres my tuppence worth. i hate these ads. why? because i think its a right cheek for someone to want to fall into making money straight away when they dont deserve it. in my opinion , anyone that wants to join a band should be willing to learn off the bands set the way they play it before any gigs are played. i firmly believe it should not be a case of " ah , ill be grand sure. ill pick it up as i go along". thats bull**** . anyone else have an opinion?

I've had that experience with almost every musician I've ever been in a band with. They think they can just listen to a song in the car on the way to practice and look at a piece of paper with the chords on it and then wing it in rehearsals. "Sure it'll be grand, it's not like we're playing the O2" is the type of attitude I've had the misfortune to come across far too often.

Rigsby

dhmusic wrote: »

I've had that experience with almost every musician I've ever been in a band with. They think they can just listen to a song in the car on the way to practice and look at a piece of paper with the chords on it and then wing it in rehearsals. "Sure it'll be grand, it's not like we're playing the O2" is the type of attitude I've had the misfortune to come across far too often.

This begs the question as to why bands put up with this type of attitude ? If the rest of the band are pulling their weight and doing their home work before a rehearsal, then there is no reason why one person should upset the apple cart. He/she should be warned, and if they dont comply, be shown the door.

Of course if the whole band have this attitude, then it is a farce.

spankadamonkee

dhmusic wrote: »

I've had that experience with almost every musician I've ever been in a band with. They think they can just listen to a song in the car on the way to practice and look at a piece of paper with the chords on it and then wing it in rehearsals. "Sure it'll be grand, it's not like we're playing the O2" is the type of attitude I've had the misfortune to come across far too often.

my point exactly. if there is 1 or 100 at the gig it should still be played at the same intensity. they are decent enough to stay and watch the gig , so the band should be decent enough to learn the songs as a unit and not be gigging with " fill ins " .

markthedrum1

This is a direct reply to your thread. I haven't read any other reply. I'm actually surprised that you can come out with this. Obviously you're not in the know or whatever.

But up here in Dundalk that's not how it works. You're given a set to learn, you then audition, if the band like ya, you're kept and you must know the set off. Also rehearsals are scheduled. Workin bands don't have the chance to cancel gigs. Also there are alot of mickey mouse out there and in order to sift through the replies that don't apply to you, then yeh, you advertise lookin for a workin cover band.

I have nearly 4years experience of workin with workin covers band and also tried to start my own covers band.

1 Do you know how hard it is to get a decent male singer, anythin short of a miracle?
2 Do you know how hard it is to get decent paying gigs?

I placed an ad before sayin available experienced drummer. All I got were people emailing sayin they were startin a new original band, which was exactly the opposite of what I wanted as I already had an original band of my own and I wanted to get into a covers band for a bit extra cash.

groovemerchant7

Hi there,

I am sorry but, you are not in touch with the pro musician scene. It is very common for a PRO musician to get a call, learn the set a play the next night. A PRO musician will do this and do a great job. He/she may have to read the music on the night depending on the situation.This is the reality of being a pro musician and most guys would do a gig like this once a week or more.

I think you are talking about bad amateur bands playing in pubs and that...Thats not the real pro music scene. There are tonnes of those bands around I agree they suck. But, don't put them into the same category as the many, many talented session players that are out there working their asses off trying to survive.

Why shouldn't musicians seek work? The reality is, it is a job like anything else.

DerKaiser

A good pro will be able to read music and/or know the standards inside out from years of playing them, I have learned 10 songs in a day before a gig and played them perfectly, pro musicians aren't winging it, this is what they do

ham_n_mustard

DerKaiser wrote: »

A good pro will be able to read music and/or know the standards inside out from years of playing them, I have learned 10 songs in a day before a gig and played them perfectly, pro musicians aren't winging it, this is what they do

+1

i've spent almost 15 years in the same covers band, and from time to time have been subbing to cover other bass players as well. when you get a call to do a gig, anything on the list that you're not 1000% sure of, you learn it. over the years, the list of stuff that you havent gigged and wouldnt be sure of gets shorter.

you turn up with good gear, good attitude and knowing your stuff, you'll get the call the next time. at least thats my experience, for what its worth.

groovemerchant7

I agree and bands that are below that you just dont work with...simple!!!

grungepants

markthedrum1 wrote: »

1 Do you know how hard it is to get a decent male singer, anythin short of a miracle?

I know this thread isnt about this but is anyone looking for male singers?

postdarwin

I guess you guys aren't talking about jazz musicians, for whom the norm is to meet the rest of the band for the first time while walking onto the stage.

After years of this, it's understandable that someone could despair of endless pub band rehearsals which drag on for hours while they try to perfect a Greenday cover.

Kurt Elling puts it well:
http://tinysong.com/uily

Fandango

Pretty huge difference in wanting to join a band and play a paid gig tomorrow, and wanting to join a working band. For someone with 15/20/30 years or whatever experience, do you expect them to start out at the very beginning every time? Simple fact of life, the more experience and expertise you have, the higher up the ladder you start. Example, top class experienced football managers have the right to ask for a high paid top flight job, you dont expect them to start out every time managing the local Under 14s team do you?

Everyone has the right to request what they feel they deserve and are capable of. If a band is willing to let someone play a paid gig with them without practice, then they deserve whatever goes wrong. Not a good plan to change a band member with an imminent gig is it? Unless you dont want to be asked back ever again.

dhmusic

Rigsby wrote: »

This begs the question as to why bands put up with this type of attitude ? If the rest of the band are pulling their weight and doing their home work before a rehearsal, then there is no reason why one person should upset the apple cart. He/she should be warned, and if they dont comply, be shown the door.

Of course if the whole band have this attitude, then it is a farce.

In my case I put up with it simply because I have to, If these people were shown the door, there is no one to replace them. It can take years just to find people willing to "wing it" aswell as that, a lot of musicians can't take criticism of their performance.

The main problem I see with is you have a lot of hobby musicians playing in bands alongside serious musicians. Some of these hobby musicians are very talented players but lack the right attitude and commitment that it takes to be in a serious band.

Rigsby

dhmusic wrote: »

In my case I put up with it simply because I have to, If these people were shown the door, there is no one to replace them. It can take years just to find people willing to "wing it" aswell as that, a lot of musicians can't take criticism of their performance.

The main problem I see with is you have a lot of hobby musicians playing in bands alongside serious musicians. Some of these hobby musicians are very talented players but lack the right attitude and commitment that it takes to be in a serious band.

I agree with what you say. However, it all boils down to the fact that you get what/who you are willing to put up with, rather than what you really want. If a band persevered in their quest for a dedicated band member, I'm sure that in time (may take a while I admit ) they will be successful. Personally, I'd rather wait, then to have an unreliable band member who, when he does decide to turn up, proceeds to "wing it". It is the band's call in the end.

markthedrum1

grungepants wrote: »

I know this thread isnt about this but is anyone looking for male singers?

Yeah the cover band I'm in is lookin for a male singer

tom thum

Fandango wrote: »

If a band is willing to let someone play a paid gig with them without practice, then they deserve whatever goes wrong. Not a good plan to change a band member with an imminent gig is it? Unless you dont want to be asked back ever again.

couldnt agree more.

tom thum

Rigsby wrote: »

Personally, I'd rather wait, then to have an unreliable band member who, when he does decide to turn up, proceeds to "wing it". It is the band's call in the end.

nail on the head!

spankadamonkee

dubbeat wrote: »

Way to suck the fun out of playing music

i play music cos it is fun. when everyone knows the set inside out. not winging it.

spankadamonkee

markthedrum1 wrote: »

This is a direct reply to your thread. I haven't read any other reply. I'm actually surprised that you can come out with this. Obviously you're not in the know or whatever.

But up here in Dundalk that's not how it works. You're given a set to learn, you then audition, if the band like ya, you're kept and you must know the set off. Also rehearsals are scheduled. Workin bands don't have the chance to cancel gigs. Also there are alot of mickey mouse out there and in order to sift through the replies that don't apply to you, then yeh, you advertise lookin for a workin cover band.

I have nearly 4years experience of workin with workin covers band and also tried to start my own covers band.

1 Do you know how hard it is to get a decent male singer, anythin short of a miracle?
2 Do you know how hard it is to get decent paying gigs?

I placed an ad before sayin available experienced drummer. All I got were people emailing sayin they were startin a new original band, which was exactly the opposite of what I wanted as I already had an original band of my own and I wanted to get into a covers band for a bit extra cash.

ive 11 more years experience than you , so i think i know what im talkin about.

1. there are lots of very good male singerts around if you look.
2.its not hard to get decent paying gigs if you are a good band i.e. everyone in ther band knowing the set inside out. the whole point of the thread.

so dont take things on face value. i have alot more experience than you,.

spankadamonkee

ham_n_mustard wrote: »

Why don't they deserve it? In my opinion, anybody who spends nearly 20 years (in my own case) learning their trade, then walks into a gig, knows their stuff and performs it properly deserves to be paid. Simples.

in all fairness, while i respect ur opinion i neccessarily agree with it. i think that a musician, no matter how many years experience,should have rspect for the band by, learning the bands versions of songs. its like a plumber or an electrician i their respective trades. they are constantly retraining to keep up wiht the latest technology. i think the same should go for a musician.
id prefer to cancel a gig, rather than have a stand in. the gig can never be 100% with a stand in, in my opinion.

stingray75

sometimes it can go either way.

i mean ideally you will get a setlist (with keys) in advance of a few rehearsals, and if you're lucky you might get an arrangement sheet for each song (rare i know - as my crew are the only ones i know of who have them) and then you can show up knowing the 40-60 songs that you may play 35-40 from on the night...

usually tho, in the reality of the situation, it's more likely to be "are you free tomorrow night? right i'll send you a set..." and you take the gig, hope that most of what's on the set you already know and have a sit-down with the rest of them in whatever time you have available before showing up and playing most of it on the seat of your pants.

most people will help you thru the gig with nods and winks, and it goes just as well as if you'd been playing the set for months...and that's the PRO way...and why the likes of groovemerchant and me get the call dude...

should i mention the "playing songs you've never even heard before" part or would that be too infuriating...:D

PMI

Thats why people wonder why they get **** money for the gig, the world of cover bands has changed. people in the door = money, banging out some old purple toons cause you like um and expect to get paid for it is looooooooooooooong gone

im sure there are alot of pros on here like myself and its all about building up a following, with the crowd and the venues so you can make it a business and earn a living for yourself and your family.

its the 19th of Jan today and ive done 14 gigs already this month?!?!? the gigs are there guys when you work, care and respect what you do.....

stingray75

PMI wrote: »

the gigs are there guys when you work, care and respect what you do.....

i never said there was no work, care or respect PMI. and to refer to the OP, if you have the time to integrate a new member into the set up then most players would prefer to do it that way - i know i would anyway - but the reality is usually different and you have to be able to go either way. i find, oddly enough, that there are about the same number of clangers both ways...and we all 'go to offaly' sometimes...

PMI

Hey totally understand your posts, wasn't responding directly to you I was referring to the bands that do it every week thinking its acceptable.

I know what you mean about clangers too.... didnt quite get the offaly thing though? fill me in sounds pretty funny

stingray75

PMI wrote: »

I know what you mean about clangers too.... didnt quite get the offaly thing though? fill me in sounds pretty funny

haha you know when you faze out during a song 'hmmm must look into that thing i was talking about earlier' or somesuch mundanity and then find you've completely lost what's supposed to be going on...its commonly referred to as having 'went to offaly'...but as to why - no idea.

PMI

Ah yeah, like "must remember to pick up milk on the way home" thats my usual one