Top 10 moments of Irish athletics 2010

ecoli

Be interesting to hear peoples thoughts on which performances stood out for people this year in what was a good year for Irish Athletics as a whole. Perhaps once a list is compile we can get a poll going

Here are some of mine

• u23 team Euro XC gold
• Ciara McGeean silver in World Juniors
• Dervals silver in Euros
• Ailish McSweeney new 100m NR
• Ciara's 10th place in Commonwealths
• Womens 4x100m NR
• Kelly Propers LJ NR
• Womens 4x400 NR
• Heffernans 4th place in 50k in Euros (NR)

Any im forgetting or ones that some people feel dont deserve to be there? (ultra running included)

Pisco Sour

My top 10 in order

1) Derval winning silver in Barca and being trackside front row for it.

2) Ciara Mageean's Silver at the World Juniors

3) Heffernan coming 4th in 50k in Barca

4) U23 European XC Gold

5) Heffernan 4th in 20k in Barca. Dissappointing but cracking performance nonetheless.

6) McSweeney breaking long standing national record AND then narrowly missing out on the final in Barca, running a wind assisted 10.32

7) Womens 4x100 team setting NR and missing out on final place in barca by about 0.02 seconds

8) Kelly Proper coming back from bad europeans to set NR of 6.60

9) Niamh Whelan running to 0.01 of her PB in the euro semi's and just missing out on final.

10) Kate Veale 4th at World Youth Olympics

11) Paul Robinson national junior record for the mile of 4.00.93

I'm sure I've left a heap out but thats off the top of my head.

BTH

No mention of Miss Britton missing out on a medal by half a meter??

For shame.

thirtyfoot

Three would be from athletes from Leevale - Derval, Ailis breaking Carrolls record and Maher breaking McDunphys long standing record. Mageean. The Donegal middle distance golden generation. Proper's recovery from bomb out at Euros, shows she had guts. Kennedy winning Nationals and making semi-final in Barca. McGonagle having to 'apologise' to Gillick through statement on Gillick site after 4x4Gate. Chamney's 'retirement'. That probably it. Of course, the Euro Cross boys and even more so their appearance on Late, Late. Great craic and great for our sport. Britton 4th, if a man did it there would be collective hard ons but women don't get the same credit. Good year allround.

BornToRun88

thirtyfoot wrote: »

McGonagle having to 'apologise' to Gillick through statement on Gillick site after 4x4Gate.

I personally believe Gillick should have apologised to everyone involved in Irish athletics for being a child and refusing to run that relay. I use to have respect for that man. I don't anymore.

TrackFan123

BornToRun88 wrote: »

I personally believe Gillick should have apologised to everyone involved in Irish athletics for being a child and refusing to run that relay. I use to have respect for that man. I don't anymore.

It was a disgrace that AAI never took a couple of reserves, knowing that Gillick was unlikely to run the heat and that Big Red was going home becasue his wife was about to give birth. Amateur management, we ought to sign a german or something to manage the sides

BornToRun88

TrackFan123 wrote: »

It was a disgrace that AAI never took a couple of reserves, knowing that Gillick was unlikely to run the heat and that Big Red was going home becasue his wife was about to give birth. Amateur management, we ought to sign a german or something to manage the sides

Yes you can blame the AAI, they only brought five when they should have brought six. Nick Hogan should have been on that team as the sixth man.

The problem I have with Gillick is that when push comes to shove in an awkward situation like the 4x400m incident, he showed himself to be egotistic, selfish and not a team player. Sure he had the heartbreak of not running a good race the night before, but he could felt better about himself by helping Ireland get to the 4x400m final. He only had to run a 46 or 47 in the heats not a 44. Wasn't fair on his team mates, especially Brian Murphy, who was only picked to do the 4x400m.

Tangle2

Its up to the selectors to select the team and reserves - not the team manager. I always laugh at people using this site to vent individual grievances regardless of whether their target has responsibilities for the error. The team manager manages the team selected. This has been addressed many times on this site but still people love having misdirected pops. Season sgreetings and here's to a great 2011.

2010 has been a super year for Irish athletics. Lets hope that we build on that in 2011.

BornToRun88

Tangle2 wrote: »

Its up to the selectors to select the team and reserves - not the team manager. I always laugh at people using this site to vent individual grievances regardless of whether their target has responsibilities for the error. The team manager manages the team selected. This has been addressed many times on this site but still people love having misdirected pops. Season sgreetings and here's to a great 2011.

2010 has been a super year for Irish athletics. Lets hope that we build on that in 2011.

But yet while it was the team manager's fault, Gillick didn't make for his error or show honour by refusing to run the relay. Instead he was selfish and proved that he treats running for Ireland as a privilege. I use to look up to that guy now I despise him.

Tangle2

BornToRun88 wrote: »

But yet while it was the team manager's fault, Gillick didn't make for his error or show honour by refusing to run the relay. Instead he was selfish and proved that he treats running for Ireland as a privilege. I use to look up to that guy now I despise him.

The selectors choose not to have reserves there, not the team manager. Apportion the criticism to those responsible. Whatever your opinion on David Gillick, you are incorrectly blaming the team manager for the selectors decision.

How about supporting athletes rather than slating them? If you've nothing good to say about our finest athletes then saying nothing would be an excellent option. Lets have your 10 best athletics moments of 2010 instead of a gripe?

myflipflops

BornToRun88 wrote: »

But yet while it was the team manager's fault, Gillick didn't make for his error or show honour by refusing to run the relay. Instead he was selfish and proved that he treats running for Ireland as a privilege. I use to look up to that guy now I despise him.

You despise him?? Really??

Nobody ever asked Gillick if he was running the relay up to the night before the heat yet they were happy to allow McCarthy (who twice checked for permission) to go home early. Gillick then suffers the biggest blow of his career in the individual final but then he should be blamed for not getting back on the track the next day? If he had agreed to run and then backed out, it was wrong. He did nothing wrong to be answerable for. Maybe you think Hession deserves the blame as he refused to race at the last minute too?

Personally, if i was Gillick, I would refuse to run on a relay team with either Kennedy or Murphy again due to the unprofessional and frankly childish manner of their reaction. Judging by some of his blog comments, there is a chance that will turn out to be the case.

BornToRun88

myflipflops wrote: »

You despise him?? Really??

Yes very much. My dad said to me a while ago 'watching Gillick's interview on Setanta?' I passed on watching it.

myflipflops wrote: »

Nobody ever asked Gillick if he was running the relay up to the night before the heat yet they were happy to allow McCarthy (who twice checked for permission) to go home early.

Yes as I've already stated AAI are part of the blame for letting McCarthy go home and not picking a sixth athlete when there were so many good 400m runners this year running good times. Likes of Nick Hogan, Billy Ryan or Kieran Kelly could have been that sixth man. Oddily enough, the womens 4x400m had six athletes.

myflipflops wrote: »

Gillick then suffers the biggest blow of his career in the individual final but then he should be blamed for not getting back on the track the next day? If he had agreed to run and then backed out, it was wrong. He did nothing wrong to be answerable for. Maybe you think Hession deserves the blame as he refused to race at the last minute too?

I know about that. It was a huge blow. But he could made up for it by helping Ireland into the 4x400m final and he didn't. He's the best man on the team and he refused to answer the call. That's like a general refusing to go into a battle with troops. Instead he wringes back at the camp. In this case Gillick wringed back in the hotel, where he locked the door on the Irish team managers. Hession doesn't get my ire compared to Gillick.

Let me tell you this, a number of years ago I came 4th in a national Junior 400m final. I was devasted. I got pipped right at the end and I taught I had a genuine chance of winning and not picking a medal was another disappointment. I pulled a calf injury and all. My club were putting a 4x400m team together for the relay right at the last minute and I was asked. I just had the heartbreak of missing out on a serious athletics career achievement and had got a calf injury. I didn't want to do the relay but my coach said 'it's a chance of not leaving empty handed' so I did it. We came 2nd, I got a medal and I felt slightly better about myself.

See how that resonates with Gillick's situation?

Perhaps this shows me as a stronger person mentally than Gillick.

myflipflops wrote: »

Personally, if i was Gillick, I would refuse to run on a relay team with either Kennedy or Murphy again due to the unprofessional and frankly childish manner of their reaction. Judging by some of his blog comments, there is a chance that will turn out to be the case.

I don't blame them. They had a right to be pissed off. He's their star man and he refused to compete. It was harsh on Murphy as he was only over for the relay. I believe Kennedy was complaining to a number of Irish people after the race about Gillick.

Don't know why you're reading his blog. I wouldn't even bother read the blog of a prima donna and egotistic individual.

thirtyfoot

Didn't mean to open can of worms and including Gillick/McGonagle was done as it was one of the top moments in Irish athletics in 2010. The reason being that for too long at too many championships McGonagle has said stuff in the media or club websites or his own blog about athletes. On the Gillick case, when he spoke to the media in the aftermath, he gave the impression that Gillick just refused to run despite repeated attempts by him to change his mind. Now I believe Gillick should have ran and he probably would have if the team manager had done his job. The team manager should have teed Gillick up way in advance, before they decided to send a team. Not the night before. Also, knowing the hand the selectors had dealt him, only one reserve, the team manager should not have allowed Dave McCarthy to leave. Thats simple bad management, in any walk of life or work. Tangle2, thats the key point here regarding McGonagle, his management of the team and the situation was poor. His handling of the situation of the media was even worse when it seems he hung out one of our greatest athletes to dry so has to cover his ass. The fact that that athlete stood up and said no, for once you aren't getting away with was a big moment for Irish athletics for me. Who would you listen to - a world class elite athlete or a run of the mill irish sporting administrator?

Borntorun, comparing the disappointment of a euro final collapse to a national juniors and deriving somehow that you have more mental capacity than Gillick as a result is hilarious.

The selection situation was fine as long as the team manager had teed all the athletes up. There was nobody else to bring apart from Nick Hogan as the others you quote in Ryan (has great potential) or Kelly are just good club athletes right now and running 48 would not dererve being sent to Euros.

Sad you despise Gillick, you could learn a lot from him in every facet of being an athlete, on and off the track.

BornToRun88

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Didn't mean to open can of worms and including Gillick/McGonagle was done as it was one of the top moments in Irish athletics in 2010. The reason being that for too long at too many championships McGonagle has said stuff in the media or club websites or his own blog about athletes. On the Gillick case, when he spoke to the media in the aftermath, he gave the impression that Gillick just refused to run despite repeated attempts by him to change his mind. Now I believe Gillick should have ran and he probably would have if the team manager had done his job. The team manager should have teed Gillick up way in advance, before they decided to send a team. Not the night before. Also, knowing the hand the selectors had dealt him, only one reserve, the team manager should not have allowed Dave McCarthy to leave. Thats simple bad management, in any walk of life or work. Tangle2, thats the key point here regarding McGonagle, his management of the team and the situation was poor. His handling of the situation of the media was even worse when it seems he hung out one of our greatest athletes to dry so has to cover his ass. The fact that that athlete stood up and said no, for once you aren't getting away with was a big moment for Irish athletics for me. Who would you listen to - a world class elite athlete or a run of the mill irish sporting administrator?

I agree with all this, piss poor management from the AAI. Nothing new there. But I disagree with your comment that standing up against team management is a big moment for Irish athletics. It isn't. This could mean relay teams don't become about the team but the demands of one individual and that is no way a relay team should be done.

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Borntorun, comparing the disappointment of a euro final collapse to a national juniors and deriving somehow that you have more mental capacity than Gillick as a result is hilarious.

You're attitude is very snobbish. That's Gillick's standard where the National Junior final was my European 400m final when I was 18. I'll have you know I was depressed about that race for a number of months. Even to the extent of affecting my training for a while.

I hope you don't preach such a snobbish attitude to the athletes you coach.

thirtyfoot wrote: »

The selection situation was fine as long as the team manager had teed all the athletes up. There was nobody else to bring apart from Nick Hogan as the others you quote in Ryan (has great potential) or Kelly are just good club athletes right now and running 48 would not dererve being sent to Euros.

Sad you despise Gillick, you could learn a lot from him in every facet of being an athlete, on and off the track.

Yes as I have stressed the team manager was to blame for not co-ordinating properly. These athletes would have certainly done better than Colvert, who is not a 400m runner. Hogan's P.B is 47.8 or thereabouts. In a relay leg, that would probably be a half a second faster. The other two, Ryan and Kelly, would have done better than Colvert as well.

I will despise Gillick forever. What he did what was not very inspiring. If he raced the heats and got Ireland into the 4x400m final after his 400m final disappointment then he would inspire me.

Tangle2

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Now I believe Gillick should have ran and he probably would have if the team manager had done his job. The team manager should have teed Gillick up way in advance, before they decided to send a team. Not the night before. Also, knowing the hand the selectors had dealt him, only one reserve, the team manager should not have allowed Dave McCarthy to leave. Thats simple bad management, in any walk of life or work. Tangle2, thats the key point here regarding McGonagle, his management of the team and the situation was poor. His handling of the situation of the media was even worse when it seems he hung out one of our greatest athletes to dry so has to cover his ass. The fact that that athlete stood up and said no, for once you aren't getting away with was a big moment for Irish athletics for me. Who would you listen to - a world class elite athlete or a run of the mill irish sporting administrator?

The selection situation was fine as long as the team manager had teed all the athletes up. There was nobody else to bring apart from Nick Hogan as the others you quote in Ryan (has great potential) or Kelly are just good club athletes right now and running 48 would not dererve being sent to Euros.

If the team management had tried to prevent Big Red from leaving, there would be the usual suspects on this site on ranting about interfering with is personal life, putting a race before a childs health etc etc etc.

If he had "teed" Gillick up the week before the race we would have another band of know alls on here talking about how he wasn't 100% focussed on his final because he knew he was on the track again the following morning!!

You have one thing badly wrong. The selection situation was not fine. They should have been aware of the timetable and planned adequately. The team manager was dealt a card short by the selectors. There were 6 there for the womens 4x4 and that should have been replicated for the men.

BornToRun88

Tangle2 wrote: »

You have one thing badly wrong. The selection situation was not fine. They should have been aware of the timetable and planned adequately. The team manager was dealt a card short by the selectors. There were 6 there for the womens 4x4 and that should have been replicated for the men.

Agreed. Could not understand that decision by the AAI when you consider there's a much higher standard at Mens 400m nationally then there is at Womens 400m nationally.

IrishTrackFan1

Tangle2 wrote: »

If the team management had tried to prevent Big Red from leaving, there would be the usual suspects on this site on ranting about interfering with is personal life, putting a race before a childs health etc etc etc.

If he had "teed" Gillick up the week before the race we would have another band of know alls on here talking about how he wasn't 100% focussed on his final because he knew he was on the track again the following morning!!

You have one thing badly wrong. The selection situation was not fine. They should have been aware of the timetable and planned adequately. The team manager was dealt a card short by the selectors. There were 6 there for the womens 4x4 and that should have been replicated for the men.

What selectors? Everyone knows that McGonagle decides who goes and who doesn't - he was to blame for every misstep of that 4 by 4 debacle and his attempts to bury Gillick afterwards show that he knew he had to find someone else to blame.

TrackFan123

I also don't see why Colvert had to run. There should have been another reserve 400m man but Hession and Chamney (though i think he had a bug/illness) would have ran faster than Colvert.

Anyway can we get back on topic? I'm suprised Mark English winning the European Youth Olympic Trials hasn't been mentioned, always great to hear 'A Soldier's Song' with a proud athelte stood on top of the podium, and for me ranks higher than Ailis McSweeney running a NR for example

myflipflops

BornToRun88 wrote: »

You're attitude is very snobbish. That's Gillick's standard where the National Junior final was my European 400m final when I was 18. I'll have you know I was depressed about that race for a number of months. Even to the extent of affecting my training for a while.

I hope you don't preach such a snobbish attitude to the athletes you coach.
.

Wow.

You do get that this is Gillicks career we are talking about. Not his athletics career, his actual job. It is what he does to pay his mortgage and his bills. It's not an intensive hobby like athleteics is or was to most of us.

People's opinions on this whole situation vary from their viewpoint. I'll accept those who take the stance that Gillick should have run. There are arguements for it. Declarations like 'I despise him' though are quite frankly pathetic.

A general rule of mine on here is not to say anything about anyone that I would not say to their face. You should point out your misgivings to him next time you see him at a meet.

Anyway, enough off topic stuff from me.

thirtyfoot

BornToRun88 wrote: »

You're attitude is very snobbish. That's Gillick's standard where the National Junior final was my European 400m final when I was 18. I'll have you know I was depressed about that race for a number of months. Even to the extent of affecting my training for a while.

I hope you don't preach such a snobbish attitude to the athletes you coach.

Would like to think I don't preach to athletes, I save that for here;) I would encourage athletes to appreciate their achievements in the now, treat every race on its merits and set their bar high but realistic. I would also try to slowly let them know what is required to reach their goals and that all the little battles along the way are stepping stones and that if they think its hard now, to get even further in the sport will be even harder. Anyway, the athletes I am involved in are well tuned in and have cop on and get all this sh*t anyway. Well off topic now.

BornToRun88 wrote: »

Yes as I have stressed the team manager was to blame for not co-ordinating properly. These athletes would have certainly done better than Colvert, who is not a 400m runner. Hogan's P.B is 47.8 or thereabouts. In a relay leg, that would probably be a half a second faster. The other two, Ryan and Kelly, would have done better than Colvert as well.

No garauntee Ryan or Kelly would have beat Colvert's split of 48.2. It was incorrectly reported here that he ran 49 something, he didn't. Can't believe we are even talking about these guys as relay options at a majors when they don't even have the Euro U23 Standard 47.10 or even the Euro Junior Standard of 48.00. The depth in the 400m is only ok and this is an example.

Well off topic anyway, no matter what side you are on and what you think of Gillick or McGonagle, it was a top moment of the year.

clubcard

BornToRun88 wrote: »

But yet while it was the team manager's fault, Gillick didn't make for his error or show honour by refusing to run the relay. Instead he was selfish and proved that he treats running for Ireland as a privilege. I use to look up to that guy now I despise him.

firstly all of your posts on here seem to be negative,
havn't looked back through your posts but i can remember a few alright.
gillick explained himself well in an interview on Setanta few weeks ago.
How can ou despise someone when you don't even know the guy.
Grow up.

BornToRun88

myflipflops wrote: »

Wow.

You do get that this is Gillicks career we are talking about. Not his athletics career, his actual job. It is what he does to pay his mortgage and his bills. It's not an intensive hobby like athleteics is or was to most of us.

People's opinions on this whole situation vary from their viewpoint. I'll accept those who take the stance that Gillick should have run. There are arguements for it. Declarations like 'I despise him' though are quite frankly pathetic.

A general rule of mine on here is not to say anything about anyone that I would not say to their face. You should point out your misgivings to him next time you see him at a meet.

Anyway, enough off topic stuff from me.

If I were to be on a relay team with him I would distrust him. If he asked why, I would say it to his face. If I was pundit on RTE during the Euros this year, I would have heavily criticised him on TV.

Sure it's his career, but you have to act professional at all times in your career to save face. What Gillick did certainly did not save face.

BornToRun88

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Would like to think I don't preach to athletes, I save that for here;) I would encourage athletes to appreciate their achievements in the now, treat every race on its merits and set their bar high but realistic. I would also try to slowly let them know what is required to reach their goals and that all the little battles along the way are stepping stones and that if they think its hard now, to get even further in the sport will be even harder. Anyway, the athletes I am involved in are well tuned in and have cop on and get all this sh*t anyway. Well off topic now.

To me you sound like a coach who tries to limit the abilities and potential of athletes. Reach high and grab everything by the balls and not limit yourself is my motto.

thirtyfoot wrote: »

No garauntee Ryan or Kelly would have beat Colvert's split of 48.2. It was incorrectly reported here that he ran 49 something, he didn't. Can't believe we are even talking about these guys as relay options at a majors when they don't even have the Euro U23 Standard 47.10 or even the Euro Junior Standard of 48.00. The depth in the 400m is only ok and this is an example.

You know Ryan ran a 48.09 in the U-23 final which could translate to a 47.5 in a relay leg while Kelly regularly ran high 47 relay splits in relays for us in Raheny in the league. Sure these guys wouldn't have done made a difference to the overall positioning of Ireland in the relay but they would have done better than Colvert.

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Well off topic anyway, no matter what side you are on and what you think of Gillick or McGonagle, it was a top moment of the year.

You're top moment hints at the welcome addition of the element of individualness in relay teams. There's no 'I' in team. Maybe we should have our relay teams become individualised so that we get Pierre Van Hoojidonks in athletes, wringing, uncommitted and prima donnas. And Notts Forest got relegated in 1999 mainly due to Van Hoojidonk's affect on the team. Get this individualised element in Irish relay teams and you'll teams of low morale and low trust between one and another that will not do well. Relay may be about skill but there's also the vital aspect of co-operation between members of the relay team.

Perhaps i'll come back to you in five years when we have relay teams having notable squabbles and not living up to expectations i'll remind you of the irony of you describing Gllick standing up to McGonagle as a highlight of 2010

woodchopper

<snipped- please don't "out" anyone posting here by giving their real name. User's have the right to post under a pseudonom if they prefer>

Pisco Sour

Borntorun, only 1 of the 8 finalists in the 400m ran the heats of the relay the next morning and that was Kevin Borlee who won the gold. None of the other 7 ran. Rooney and Bingham didnt run for GB. Jonathon Borlee didnt run for Belgium after his dissappointment. Djoine didnt run for France. The Russian guy didnt run for his country and so on and so forth. So Gillick is not an exception with regards this.

BornToRun88

04072511 wrote: »

Borntorun, only 1 of the 8 finalists in the 400m ran the heats of the relay the next morning and that was Kevin Borlee who won the gold. None of the other 7 ran. Rooney and Bingham didnt run for GB. Jonathon Borlee didnt run for Belgium after his dissappointment. Djoine didnt run for France. The Russian guy didnt run for his country and so on and so forth. So Gillick is not an exception with regards this.

They may not ran but at least they were supportive of their teams like Ronney and Bingham who came out and trained with the GB team before the heat. The other athletes weren't asked to race nor did they get asked to race and turn it down. In the Irish situation, it's AAI management that has to be blamed for poor co-ordination but the finger can also be pointed at Gillick for refusing to run and be supportive of his team mates in a dire situation. Gillick literally could have jogged around and ran a 46 and Ireland would have got into the final.

thirtyfoot

BornToRun88 wrote: »

To me you sound like a coach who tries to limit the abilities and potential of athletes.

Yep, thats how I roll. I thought I was a snob who didn't regard the national juniors as important and only major international championships mattered. Confused.

BornToRun88 wrote: »

You know Ryan ran a 48.09 in the U-23 final which could translate to a 47.5 in a relay leg while Kelly regularly ran high 47 relay splits in relays for us in Raheny in the league. Sure these guys wouldn't have done made a difference to the overall positioning of Ireland in the relay but they would have done better than Colvert.

Here say and opinion. They have never broken 48. They are good club athletes. If they were 19 they wouldn't even go to Euro Juniors so why send to Euro Seniors. Ryan maybe as he has pedigree but Kelly....not sure, why is he even being considered. He is the 7th man. We need more depth, more of the many 48 guys pushing on and running 47s.

BornToRun88 wrote: »

Perhaps i'll come back to you in five years when we have relay teams having notable squabbles and not living up to expectations i'll remind you of the irony of you describing Gllick standing up to McGonagle as a highlight of 2010

Is there such a thing as double irony? The really ironic thing is that you have ambitions to make an Irish 4 x 4 team based on your 3rd person references and you say Irish team should be all about teamwork and trusting each other blah blah blah, and yet on boards you have slagged off 50% of your future potential teammates. You despise Gillick, you wouldn't trust Gregan........imagine you being on a relay with those two in years to come, that would be ironic.

downthemiddle

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Patsy being appointed until 2012 as one of their highlights .

The whole 4x400 thing has been done to death at this stage. It was clearly a monumental cock up. Athletics is a very selfish sport. Elite athletes are required to focus solely on themselves. When Gillick was laying down his goals for the year qualifying for a 4x400 final wasn't one of them.There were assumptions made about Gillick and perhaps Hession too. Once again communication was an issue.People can point their finger all they like but if there is no communication with an athlete problems are going to arise.
There were issues with another relay team this year but they were kept in house and the team was properly prepared and coached.Unfortunately there was no preparation for our men's 4x400 team and yet people seem to be surprised that problems arose.

BornToRun88

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Yep, thats how I roll. I thought I was a snob who didn't regard the national juniors as important and only major international championships mattered. Confused.

You laughed your snobby head off at me for comparing my heartbreaak at the Juniors to Gillick's Euro heartbreak.

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Here say and opinion. They have never broken 48. They are good club athletes. If they were 19 they wouldn't even go to Euro Juniors so why send to Euro Seniors. Ryan maybe as he has pedigree but Kelly....not sure, why is he even being considered. He is the 7th man. We need more depth, more of the many 48 guys pushing on and running 47s.

Hear say and opinion? They clearly would have ran faster than Colvert and have better experience at the 400m, they certainly wouldn't have looked behind at 100m of the 400m leg. If you can't admit they would have done better, even if only marginal, you're clearly stubborn.

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Is there such a thing as double irony? The really ironic thing is that you have ambitions to make an Irish 4 x 4 team based on your 3rd person references and you say Irish team should be all about teamwork and trusting each other blah blah blah, and yet on boards you have slagged off 50% of your future potential teammates. You despise Gillick, you wouldn't trust Gregan........imagine you being on a relay with those two in years to come, that would be ironic.

You're twisting this now. You're not dealing with the issue head on I put at you with you supposed moment of the year of 'Gillick getting his way over McGonagle' which has the potential to turn our relay teams into one trip egos or what I call the 'Pierre Van Hoojidonk Syndrome'.

But i'll address your sidetracking, my opinion of Gregan changed once a few details were cleared by those close to him. Im a flexible person in my opinion of people not stubborn or arrogant for that matter. Saying that tho, there is little that will change my mind of Gillick, he walked out on a team in a dire situation, end of.

If that so is the case with Gillick, it's own fault for his act of betrayal to his country. When the chips are down, don't count on Gillick.

Also, ThirtyFoot, AAI take people on talent. They don't disregard people who are stating their own opinions on discussion sites.

garmingeek

Ciara winning silver in the World juniors and smashing her pb.
2nd would be lads u23 team but and also their performance on the late late:D

shels4ever

garmingeek wrote: »

Ciara winning silver in the World juniors and smashing her pb.
2nd would be lads u23 team but and also their performance on the late late:D

Only watched the late late thing yesterday was very funny.