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New Cafe: But crazy planning requirements from council....

  • 16-12-2010 11:35am
    Registered Users Posts: 20 silverdawn

    Hi there, im just wondering has anyone looked for planning permission for a cafe/restaurant and what were their requirements for provideing parking....?? and if there was a way around it....!!

    Im trying to open a cafe, but it has to be classed as a restaurant by kildare c.c, total floor area is 93sqm, not that big considering half will be taken over with kitchen and toilets. Whats killing me is for every 4.5sqm of public space i have to provide 1 car parking space, so lookin at 10 spaces. As this unit is on main st Newbridge this is not possible to provide, so kildare cc lookin for 6k per space.... Im just tryin to open a business and employ people, i lost my job earlier this year . This country makes it so hard to do anything....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Smcgie

    I no this could be laughed at but consider putting your case to a local politician or counselor after all their paid to assist with these kind of things. The people in the planning office through no fault of their own read from a set of guidelines.

    Common scene is not all that common ;)

  • Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭daelight

    Sounds like you are dealing with (dis-)organised criminals there (need parking spaces x 10.. "oh, no parking spaces? Cough up 60k then...")

  • Registered Users Posts: 40 nlpete

    Do you mean they will create the parking spaces for 6k each...where will they get the space from ? and what if a non custommer parks there.

    Who says your custommers will drive to your premisis !

    Sounds like your getting shafted !

    Check with a representative of the trade and also citizens advice etc etc.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,386 ✭✭✭EKRIUQ

    To be honest that actually sounds cheap, in Kilkenny they used to be asking for €25,000 a parking space. Its absolute bull to be demanding this from people trying to start a business. The thing is you can bargain with them I sure you could get them down half price but still a rip off considering their going to hit you with rates as well.

    In the boom times councils went mad fleecing business's surprised there wasn't much more about it. A small hotel that was planned near me had to pay €396,000 to the council before they even turned a sod, made up of council charges, water charges, effects on the environment and of course parking spaces. I know a chemist in a very small rural village had to pay €24,000 for 4 parking spaces even though their was a more than adequate empty car park opposite them.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,386 ✭✭✭EKRIUQ

    nlpete wrote: »
    Do you mean they will create the parking spaces for 6k each...where will they get the space from ? and what if a non custommer parks there.

    No them mean that the extra cars that will come to the cafe will contribute to wear and tear on the roads its nothing to actually do with car parking space, just a way to justify an extra tax.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 20 silverdawn

    Yes that 6k per parking space will just go into a fund prob for road repairs or something like that.... there are 2 multi story car parks 3 min walk from where i hope to open cafe....My cafe really wont be bringing any extra cars to the area as they will be there already shopping in this busy town..:) When this premises was givin existing planning for retail use it had to provide 3 spaces, but the county council wont take this into consideration......grrrrrrr

  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭the explorer

    This is a great example of how out of touch both local and national government is in this country. Still stuck in Celtic tiger land when it comes to all the startup costs and red tape for small businesses.

    They make a big deal about cutting minimum wage, but ask any small biz owner with 3 employees if they would rather save €120 a week by reducing wages or getting a cut in rates and all will say the latter.
    They don't understand that it's small businesses that are the only hope for recovery, not running tax minimising schemes for MNCs!

  • Registered Users Posts: 40 nlpete

    Hey !

    Only christie Moore can save us now as Bono doesnt seem to be around .

    Lads ! I didnt realize it was that bad..but as you nention it I did read the small print and it did say that the 2400 road upkeep tax to build my house, could be spent as the gov felt fit !

    I watch a lot of media / current affairs = you tube, and some tv, and its all so obvious really. why dont they just cough up and call it like it is.

    This cant go on much longer and either will have to give at some point.

    They just seem to want the money and they work to a plan.

    otherwise they would see what we see...but if they are right how come we dont see it and how come this is the same story all over the globe right now !

    but the money cant be the real deal because they have enough / all of it and they can just print it if they wish and while it all gets sucked to the top there will allways be poor and getting poorer, even to the last.

    Why are we so silenced

    Power is a strange thing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭91011

    Maybe the council are doing you a favour?

    Can Newbridge really take yet another coffee shop?

    Here's your competition

    Cafe Continental
    Kerrys cupcakes
    Food court in Whitewater
    and all the pubs that do coffee + the others that I don't remember the name of.

    Newbridge is a "shoppers" town. e.g. not a lot of offices.

    Now if you managed to get change of use to coffee shop in tougers business park - check out old Forde stove centre (rent quoted 12k a year) - you would be jammed from 7am to 4pm

    Also, talk to a solicitor and see what you state that you are opening to avoid too much hassle - "sanwich bar" or maybe "delicatessen"

  • Registered Users Posts: 78,237 ✭✭✭✭Victor

    Is the building new or existing?

    If existing, what is the current use?

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  • If I were you and I didnt want to build/pay for the parking spaces, or to put it another way, by building the parking spaces the risk of the business failing and having a cashflow shortage are much greater; I would put pressure on the local government via the media.

    Headline "Small business refused planning by newbridge council because of inability to pay astronomical fee for parking spaces"

    And go from there with the facts that because of this requirement you now cannot afford to setup your business, create jobs and give new business to struggling suppliers in the area, simply because of a ruling that was in place during a completely different economic environment. Quote "If councilor Mr Newbridge intended to boost business in the local area he is certainly going about it the wrong way, and possibly we need a change in local government"

    Get that in the local newspaper and a local radio interview and things will start changing.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭91011

    Victor wrote: »
    Is the building new or existing?

    If existing, what is the current use?

    it would need change of use - currently as a eco stove showroom. - Very nicely fitted out too! - So only fit out costs would be seating & catering equipment.

    This area REALLY needs a coffee shop - the queues and overpriced crap served in Toughers petrol station needs competition.

    The ladytown part of the park is owned seperately from Toughers, so whilst toughers may object, they won't be able to stop a cafe.

    please please please consider it - I might even get a petition going:D:D:D

    I also know that 2 new sort of retaily style outlets are opening in the new year near this unit - both targeting ladies, add this to NCT centre, tricky tricksters Yankee Candle store, K Bowl, Cost plus sofas, kitchens shops, furniture shops - there is just so much passing traffic in addition to the 2000+ people working in the park!

    imo - a cafe sol / coffee republic style branded cafe would work best.

  • Registered Users Posts: 78,237 ✭✭✭✭Victor

    91011 wrote: »
    it would need change of use - currently as a eco stove showroom.
    I was asking the OP, silverdawn. :)

  • Registered Users Posts: 20 silverdawn

    Thanks to all for your comments here, i will be lookin into some of the ideas mentioned...also have contacted all the town councillor's and Sean Power TD office and still waiting for replys.

    The building im looking into is existing.....

  • Registered Users Posts: 40 nlpete

    Hi all

    If this thread is still active I would like to ask your opinion on something.

    I'm not asking for advice ! just your thoughts !

    I am currently involved in a food company start up in the south of the country, I spent for months building a business plan for a and was then asked to head the sales and marketing end as the plan got the green light from the CEB.

    Im wondering about the market prospects and next years budget.

    Our numbers were based on the previous five years and that market place is I think changing.

    I dont want to invest in a guess.

    If I get on board I would have to bring something to the table but what I have I would not gamble with in this climate and knowing how sme's are being treated puts me off even more.

    I ave my own project on the go but its a long term thing with a slower return but I can easily handle the risk as its an e commerce thing and Im set up for that.

    Should a person wait until we have a better idea of where the country is going before investing in bricks and mortar biz ! or just trust that the tide will turn sooner rather than later


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,237 ✭✭✭✭Victor

    silverdawn wrote: »
    The building im looking into is existing.....
    That may mean there is only a change of use and hte car aprking feee isn't payable or that a reduced fee is payable.

    You might get better answers here:

  • Registered Users Posts: 40 nlpete


    I had a look at the CC website and found this page.

    paste this into browser and have a look, it may get you closer to your answer.

    Hope it helps